"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

clep · Senior Member

Feeling tired of it all today.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Clep,

I know how twitchy I get when I miss to many meetings in a row or they are the key meetings for me which would be Sunday's and Tuesday's.

You sound so tired and rightfully so, it's a large load to carry and feel so alone in it all.

An interesting topic came up and someone else posted about this very thing as well. The expectation of if I don't do it then he will and if he doesn't it drives me crazy because I have to do it mind set. Something the person here taught me I wish I could remember who it was .. pineapple (?), her A's dinner and a clean kitchen. It was a great post about this topic. The result that I remember was she decided to go ahead and make herself dinner and leave enough for him so hopefully he would stay out of the kitchen and not make a mess. She could do so and not be resentful about it. What humbled me so much about her posting this topic is the fact she made him dinner with a joyful heart and did not resent it because she owned her choice in the matter. Take what you like out of there if anything, you are entitled to your feelings and no one can say they are wrong because they are feelings and they are yours.

This is YOUR vacation, your A is going to do what he's going to do and YES it is disrespectful. I hope you are able to just enjoy the time with your son and not focus on how awful his behavior is. YOU deserve a good time. YOU deserve peace of mind. YOU and your son deserve to have some amazing memories. I don't know if you can draw a boundary (personally and I'm a little evil this way, .. lol .. I don't know if that's a good thing or not, it's part of who I am at the moment at least .. lol .. I wouldn't be volunteering any information and my AH would be walking into poles (as in pole ahead or look out). He also wouldn't need to come with me if that was going to be his behavior. Meaning, the kids and I would take off and do our thing and he could ogle all he wants I just wouldn't have to see it. That is something I would be making him aware of before we left and I wouldn't be stating it again we'd just be gone doing our thing.) That is my own boundary, I am not going to be disrespected like that there is looking and there is looking like a massive jerk is the nicest word I can come up with.

Family vacations in no way have to be miserable, sure they can be, it's about my choices though in making the vacation my own. We haven't been on many family vacations, for some reason my AH winds up being sick during the longest day we are there, and I don't know why, it is what it is, and that's fine .. it's not going to stop me from doing what I want to do during the time I'm there with our kids because who knows when we will get back. The kids and I had an amazing time on the last trip and I thought my AH did as well, he came back and less than 48 hours had a DUI under his belt. So apparently we didn't experience the same fun. That isn't my issue that is on him.

Something alanon has taught me is in any given situation I am only as alone as I isolate myself. I only need to ask for help and there is help there for me. A perfect example for me is when the van broke down and I had no way to pick up the kids or get them to school for 2 days. My AH decided he didn't want to move the seat in his truck and that's fine, .. guess who didn't have a ride home? My kids sure did, I picked up the phone and made a couple of phone calls and one of my sons friends was so gracious she got my children and brought them home. She then came and picked them up the next day for school. My other wonderful friend got them home that evening and by that afternoon my AH had decided that maybe he needed to move the seat because I wasn't worried how he was going to get to and from work. That is where I see significant growth on my part.

My only other story is this as well, I grew up with a mother who had no boundaries, if you don't do this than you can't do that. Well, guess who always wound up doing that and there was NEVER any kind of consequence for me? Yup, .. it was me and there was no negative consequences. I was prime for a lot of bad behavior and somehow my angles always watched over me and kept me from making some really bad choices. I did not have a clue what personal responsibility was until I got into my mid 30's and even now I still struggle. My point being I never took her seriously nothing ever was done and truthfully I struggle with having respect for her even now. I do understand why she was the way she was and is from time to time .. sometimes you gotta get up off the floor and stop being a doormat to situations around us. Stop wearing the mantle of victim and make our world the way we want to live it instead of other people "doing it to us."

I say this with great understanding and compassion of living a similar situation. I did not ask to be my AH's parents caretaker (his sdad got cancer and I was the one going to his appointments, I was the one talking to the dr's, I was the one who was in school full time and then some, I was the one chauffeuring the kids around, I was the one who was doing their grocery shopping, and I was ANGRY, RESENTFUL, and plug in a bunch of other negative crap). I was the one who kept doing it. I did not ask to move out here to BF Egypt, I did not ask to be alone in caring for my kids, I did not ask for my AH to be an addict. It is the situation/s I have dealt with and I stopped being so tired, angry and resentful when I could see where I didn't have to do specific things and I could ask for help, there is always help even if we aren't sure who to ask.

Hugs it does get better and I hope you will be able to go to a meeting, P :)

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Today he asked me what was wrong and I just told him I don't want to talk about it. I have no interest in being a good actress so he thinks I am always happy, but if I look not happy he HAS to know what is wrong. If I tell him, it is just a fight anyways. I have chosen to bypass the fight. He knows all the things that are upsetting, knows what he needs to change but just won't do it. Life is so comfortable right now living with mommy, why should he. I remember asking what he would do if he lived alone? He said he would live in a place where utilities are included so he doesn't have to pay bills, etc.

He gave up on AA AGAIN!!!! He keeps saying he will go, and does for a meeting then doesn't anymore. I am really tired of all of thi

HI sweetie, well I counted about 12 times or more in this paragraph he or him. hint.

I invite you to use the word I in this paragraph. meaning I am not happy, I do not want to fight,I have control over my going to Al Anon, I am not comfortable being a mom to an adult, I will not be with some one who looks at other women rudely in my presence.

What makes me believe I deserve this behavior?What options do I have to make my life better and my sons life better?

When I stopped even thinking about him, his stuff, I figured out what I could live with and just love him.

I learned when it got so bad, he was not bathing, p u, he never smiled or laughed, never talked, was abusive physically, did NOTHING around the sanctuary anymore. that was that.

What makes one choose to be with someone who treats them rudely and actually abusively? or sees them look at other women in an uncomfortable way when they are with me, or does not do much around the house at all, is not getting help, do I really choose to be the maid, teacher, accountant, etc with this person hanging off my neck.

You know it is not the taxes, bills or job or teaching. If you were living how YOU really want to, those things would not exaust you. But hang a 160 pound person with their bs on yourself that you don't detach from.....hmm my thought is we kill that beautiful person we are.

My son was in a horrible A marriage. He moved back into his own house, but still saw her. His house was falling apart, yard looked like a vacant messy lot, he did not eat right, his house was a mess inside too, refridgerator was so bad, he only kept beer and pop in it.

He didn't smile much.

So now he has this wonderful lady. He divorced the A. I went to his house yesterday to steal kindling and fire wood...Yard is sooo nice! His house inside looks great again with all the African stuff I have dragged home for him...lol

His fridg is cleaner than mine! He bought new sheets. Smiles, is serene. introspective. He is him again. Clep he said I think back about all the horrible things she did and said to me, and I cannot figure out why I stayed!? I said, Mac this shows you how very sick this disease makes us. Now you see. told him I was so glad he figured it out.

His beautiful dog is even gaining weight and looks 5 years younger I kid you not! If we cannot truly detach becuz that other person is over boundaries we cannot live with, it kills us.

We do have choices, always, always. NO it may not be easy at first, but it is not all bad either. YOu would not believe how much happier my dogs are away from all that bolony.

HUGS. I hope this helps, good to see ya here! love,debilyn

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Clep..... I agree that the focus is on him, and what he is/isn't/might/might not do right now, and that is never a fun place to be..... I'd like to focus on a couple of things you said....

I haven't gotten to meetings in a couple of weeks which isn't helping

Great awareness, and you know the solution to that..... As is said in most meeting openings - "trying to deal with this on our own is too much for most of us", and that is soooo true.... Getting to meetings when your "reality" is feeling overwhelming is the best advice you can give yourself....

We leave to go to Disneyland for two weeks very soon

Okay, perspective change needed here!! First of all, how cool is it that you get to go to Disneyland with a happy, excited 8-year old??!! That is fantastic! Please don't ruin YOUR vacation by what he 'might' do.... Living in the here and now, taking life as it arrives - ODAT etc., are all powerful tools.... There was a post about a gratitude list the other day - how about trying writing out what is RIGHT with your life and/or you ARE happy about, with the trip to Disneyland being high on that list?? I cannot control, nor promise how your A will behave on that trip.... Neither can you.... I can, however, promise you that YOU are in control of the perspective that YOU bring to this event, and that you have it within you to have a wonderful time enjoying the Park and your son - regardless of your A's behaviors and/or participation.... Will it be perfect, and like your dream vacation?? Perhaps not, but you DO have the ability to make it fun for at least the two of you....

Have a spectacular time - you and your son are well worth the effort!!

Tom

He will either drink (or give up on AA, or ogle women, or act like an ass, or fight with your son, or be a dry drunk) or he won't.... .what are YOU gonna do?

clep · Senior Member

I havent' been to a meeting because I physically can't get there. I am having a hard time walking right now. I took half the day off of work yesterday as I was not mobile without great pain. My body is as exhausted as my mind and I am thankful that I have three days to try and get it together. I am walking today so I am planning on getting to a couple of meetings this weekend. My body is not doing well with the lack of sleep and is responding to that. It is crazy how quickly it comes on, and thankfully how quickly it leaves.

I have put the focus on him and what he is not doing. There comes a time where I need to assess what I am picking up that he is not, and I do need to look realistically at what our roles are. That is few and far between. When I am incapable of walking or driving due to the exhaustion, it is vital for me to determine if I can realistically live with the situation where it is right now. Can I continue to do everything on my own, do I need to remove him from my life etc. If he was gone I would still be doing everything alone, I just wouldn't be lugging him with me. I get to this point every couple of months or so when I start getting burned out with my load. I have tried to lighten my load, but have lightened it the most I think I can. I am still overwhelmed.

As far as the vacation goes: I take our son to Disneyland every Halloween regardless of if the A is there or not. I either deal with our son saying "I wish dad was here", and being sad or deal with my A behaving like a pig. I try so hard to detach from his behaviors. I find it hard to talk to him unless he initiates the conversation, as that is the only time I know he is interested in talking wth me. If I initiate anything, it is likely he is not listening as there are women all over the park. If I choose to go on with my day and just leave him be, he is throwing a tantrum at the Disneyland park because I am not treating him as he thinks I should be. I do feel stuck!!! Either provide him the undivided attention he wants regardless of how he is behaving or deal with his tantrums. When he is having a tantrum it scares our son, and does make the vacation bad. Our son is not capable of dealing with things the same as I, and he does take it on, it does sway his moods and rightfully so....he is only eight.

I think that is where my issue lies right now. Watching our son taking on the crap an A dishes out. If I leave him, our son will always have an A as a father and he will always have to deal with the crap.

It all boils down really to me not being okay with what our son has to go through in life with this. I just don't know how to get past that. That is one thing Al-anon has not aided with.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

It all boils down really to me not being okay with what our son has to go through in life with this. I just don't know how to get past that. That is one thing Al-anon has not aided with.

Wow... I respectfully think that you are missing the point, and that what you have captured above is EXACTLY what we need Al-Anon for... I think Al-Anon gets us back focussing on being treated in acceptable terms, by others AND by ourselves.... In rebuilding our own sense of self-worth and dignity, our children get to see us in much more positive light, and get to see the fruits of our "recovery".... In my humble opinion, Al-Anon teaches and reinforces the skillset necessary for you to lead a happy and serene life, and these skills can be both exemplified and passed onto our children....

Sorry you're having a tough time right now...

Tom

rrib · Senior Member

clep wrote:
If I leave him, our son will always have an A as a father and he will always have to deal with the crap.

Your son will always have the same father. The question is can he learn to grow up healthy in spite of the crap.

Tom is right on target. Al-Anon is a tool we use to learn to be emotionally healthy.

flopadopilus · ~*Service Worker*~

I hear you spiraling in pain and I am sorry to hear that. I hope you can practice self care and soon. I hope you can make it to a meeting and do you have a sponsor? Have a great time on your vacation, it does sound fun, it's been years since I have gone anywhere cool like that. Sending you love and support on your journey!

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

This is right on target for me nothing changes if nothing changes however I am responsible always for my own changes. With out Alanon I would not be where I am at today and I am grateful every single day that I am blessed to be in this program and having it work the miracles it does. I finally got to the point of being sick and tired of being sick and tired there is no other way to explain it.

Hugs P :)

rrib wrote:

clep wrote:
If I leave him, our son will always have an A as a father and he will always have to deal with the crap.
Your son will always have the same father. The question is can he learn to grow up healthy in spite of the crap.
Tom is right on target. Al-Anon is a tool we use to learn to be emotionally healthy.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi clep,

I'm sorry you're having a challenging time right now. This too shall pass. Remember!

I hope you have a wonderful time with your son at Disneyland! Practice and practice some more with placing the focus on you & your son.

You AH is going to do whatever he chooses to do. No control over that!

I'm finding the more I release the desire to control others, alcoholic or non-alcoholic, the more freedom I'm experiencing and the more energy I have.

No denying it - it takes loads of practice to let go of the desire to control people and events. But it gets easier with practice.

Again, have a wonderful time with your son!

Gail

Tracey C · Senior Member

Hi Clep,

Have you thought of al-ateen for your son? My children love it. They have been going for nearly 2 years now. Their ages are 7 - 12. From the very first day they went, they were a lot happier and able to handle situations better.

As for your holiday, I can fully understand your anxiety. Only a few months ago, we went away for a few days (first time for around 6 yrs). As the time grew closer, memories of our previous holidays came up e.g. road rage. This time I didn't even notice his driving, I was to busy enjoying myself looking out the window. When he became tense I just focused on myself and the kiddies. We even had a child vomiting about 3-4 times during the trip and over the first day. It was still fine. There were no explosions. It totally amazed me!!! I have been attending al-anon for the past 2 years now and I have seen this quite a bit in my life now.

Regards,

Tracey

clep · Senior Member

I have realized some things today and since this post. I am not okay with the negative coping skills our son is required to gain to deal with the crap. At the stage of development of an eight year old, there WILL be and are coping skills he gains. Many adults with full reasoning abilities cannot cope with the effects of alcoholism, so thinking that a child will be able to cope with success is unrealistic and definately shows denial imo as to what the child lives with.

When our son sees his father oggling other women, throwing tantrums, hears him swearing and deals with the crap, he is learning to DO exactly the same things. Our children learn what we model for them. He will learn these things to be the norm in life, no matter what anyone SAYS to him. That is what perpetuates the cycle of abuse. We learn what we live not what we hear.

Al-anon will never change these things. Only I can as a parent. I love the Al-anon program, but I do not feel okay with what I am showing my son to be the norm right now. I am not okay with him seeing me tolerate disrespectful behaviors and to accept that as okay via action.

My A is not an active drinker. He does not have a program, but does not have ANY consequences for his behaviors. He moves on with life because he has someone around doing things for him.....all the things I said in my first post.

As long as he has someone doing those things, change is unlikely. Those things have to be done so the rest of our family can lead a decent life. Electricity is a must etc. Really I am enabling him at this point with the idea of "just putting the focus on me". I am also harming my son.

When dad wasn't around our son missed him, but didn't gain all of the negative skills required to survive around an A that is not in recovery on a daily basis.

And Tom, I am not trying to be rude, as I really respect you. I do have to say though, that anyone that respects themselves and has self worth would not be tolerating the ogling, being their parent, someone sucking them dry emotinally if they allow, the tantrums, absence of communication and interest in changing things. They would probably walk, just like everyone told me to do long ago.

I have left my A to do what he chooses as I have no control over him and I have done this for 1.5 years now. Nothing has changed. Time for me to change my circumstances, as he has no interest in changing his own. I don't want a relationship that is barely surviving. I want one that will thrive and it is apparent I will not be receiving one with an A.

rrib · Senior Member

clep wrote:
Really I am enabling him at this point with the idea of "just putting the focus on me".
Time for me to change my circumstances,

I think the idea on focusing on myself is to do just that - be able to see what I need to do in terms of setting boundries, quitting enabling unacceptable behaviour and making whatever changes I need to make to lead a good life.

When I'm all wound up in someone else's problems, I am unable to do that because all my focus is on what THEY are doing and what I'd like THEM to change, instead of what I need to do.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

To me, Al-Anon offers the tools to help me figure out what's best for me. Program teaches to place the focus on ourselves; that way, we are able to decide what is best for us.

You sound as though you are defining your boundaries, which only you can do for you.

I'm sorry that your husband is not able to be the father your son needs right now, nor is he the husband you need/want.

I hope your relationship with your HP continues to grow; it will guide you as much as you allow it. It's learning to "allow" that's the tough part 'cuz we have all these old tape that we sometimes pay more attention to. (Not implying this is your case; just stating my opinon).

I know you are in a lot of pain. As you know, it can get better.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"