Please help me - Al-Anon Family Group

Linda77 · Member

Please help me

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so sorry. This sounds very hard. And it does sound as if your son is deep in the insanity of alcoholism. And as always, the alcoholic drags everyone around into stress and insanity too. That's why we need to learn all we can about alcoholism, work on our own recovery, and recover our own serenity.

There are meetings online here that you may be able to get to. Nothing beats having a sponsor and local Al-Anon friends, though. You know how your schedule works, of course, and obviously I don't, but I wonder if your church has alternate services? It would be great if you could get to both church and face-to-face Al-Anon meetings.

There is also a book called "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews that has helped many people. You can get it from Amazon or other online stores. We can definitely draw healthy boundaries when we realize that our alcoholics have betrayed our trust or let their addiction rule their decisions. How to draw the boundaries isn't something that becomes clear overnight, so a good deal of program work is very helpful. There are many wise people on these boards and reading through the threads can help a lot. Of course a sponsor to help work through the steps is also a blessing.

I hope you can learn all you can, keep coming back, and take good care of yourself. So glad that you found us.

rrib · Senior Member

Linda77 wrote:
This time, I told him there are boundries. If you fail to live within them, you go back to jail.

How many stikes did you tell him he'd get this time? Wasn't one enough?

rosielee · Senior Member

this strike thing....im afraid the sickness doesnt work on strikes. gosh- if only things were that simple...im afriad hes going to keep breaking those strikes againa nd again as he is totally powerless over this disease- i know as i have seen my mum go through raving- mad drunk binges for years- she had her kids begging and pleading and praying for sobriety. then one day she drove off drunk to an AA meeting and cam back sober. I really hope for some light at the end of that tunnel for you.
i think prison would be a safer place for him...it would hurt but h could drink in there and may b able to access the help quicker? if not he is likely to kill himself or others if h gets into another car...and that other person might be someone elses son or daughter or mother or father.

get to a meeting- you really need it- its a terrible disease is this xxxxx

alexmaui · Veteran Member

I can hear the pain you are going through. Like you, my church helped andgave me love and support....and so did AlAnon. Alanon also helped me develop the skills and strength I needed to deal with my AH. I have slipped a lotbin the last year but i still moved forward towards a hands off approach. It works. Good luck and hugs

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

I completely understand that your faith is really important to you. Alanon is a spiritual program as well. It seems to me that you are carrying heavy burdens with regard to your sons drinking. I would strongly recommend that you try the Alanon meeting to get some tools for which you can cope with his alcoholism.

This is a difficult walk alone trying to manage the disease. Alanon is a "we" program that is there to help welcome and give comfort to families and friends of alcoholics. It is suggested you try six or more meetings before making a decision as to whether or not alanon is right for you. If you keep an open mind, you will find help.

Please keep coming back.

In support,

Tommye

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

You wont find easy or simple answers on this board. Ultimately, he's 33 and you did you job as a parent. I'm sure you did it well too and his drinking isn't your fault. He cannot be mothered back to health sadly and he has a better chance at recovery by hitting the natural bottom that he created for himself....even if that's being homeless. It's a dangerous line to draw cuz people do die from addiction and you want to keep you son safe...but on the other hand you want boundaries for you and it really is HIS disease to deal with. He can make the choice to go to rehab and get into AA whenever he wants. The solution for him is there. The solution does not rest with you as much as you would want it to and as much as your maternal instincts would tell you it is.

Linda77 · Member

I cannot express the strength of your replies have given me. And, I cannot stop crying. I think the release of tears for myself and crying for the pain I have read in the other post is something I've needed for a long time. I haven't been able to cry...it's just been anger and fear bottled inside...But, each post, and each word of every reply has helped. I gave him 3 strikes...But, now, I realize I gave them to him anger...I reacted to the lie about the money, instead of acting. I just spoke to my cousin's wife. My cousin (her husband) is also an alcoholic. Well, he is a "functioning" alcohol, if there can be such a thing. He never misses a day of work, but he drinks himsellf to sleep every night. This horrible thing seems to run in our family. My cousin's wife has agreed to go with me to Alanon next Thursday night. I attend a home mission church, so I know they need me as much as I need them, but I'm thinking of alternating weeks. One at Alanon and one at the home mission. It has been a long time since I felt some sane thoughts regarding this nighmare. I thought I could bear anything, but when he was locked up last week, I almost lost my mind worrying about the conditions in jail...and what other inmates do to each other.

atheos · Senior Member

I am glad to hear that you are planning on going to your local meeting. I think you'll find that God/your Higher Power is there just as much as in church, and that the experience, strength, and hope you will hear in Al-Anon meetings can help you through some extremely difficult times.

This message board is great, but it can't take the place of face to face meetings... to be at a meeting, where you can hold hands with/cry with/laugh with/hug other people who've been exactly where you are, is an experience like nothing else.

(...you'll also be able to talk to people whose relatives have been in jail, which is valuable as well... it's not as worrying as it may sound... television promotes a belief that certain things are common in jail, when they're actually extremely rare)

-- Edited by atheos on Saturday 24th of September 2011 12:40:37 PM

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

Lived that one for 7 years. I think al anon can help you a lot. I hope you can embrace the program. Get the book Getting them Sober. Start coming here to meetings and to the chat room. To stop obsessing and checking up is so so hard.

I am so glad that you are asking for help. You deserve to be happy.

Maresie.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

the problem is when one does not allow someone in jail to sit there and LEARN how much they hate it,figure out what they can do to avoid it, it enables the person to do it over and over knowing they will be bailed out.

The problem i see now is your softening even more! strikes do not work, they are ultimatums, those really don't work and they will use them up to the last tiniest measurement!

They NEED to fall and get up on their own! We need to mind our own business or our kids will never grow up. He won't have a chance to get so tired of the disease to get help!

Look at your situation as a sitcom. Your 33 year old son stole from YOU. We get so sick we start accepting the unacceptable.

Sending you hugs as I KNOW how hard it is to let them go and figure it allll out on their own!

love,deb

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Linda and welcome to the board...I can support what worked and works for me still and that is the face to face meetings of the Al-Anon Family Groups and yes like another has said I also found the God of my understanding in these rooms and no doubt if you go and go with an open mind you might find the same in the compassion and unconditional love and understanding your will find there as you find here. What you are watching and participating in is active alcoholism...the compulsion of the mind and the allergy of the body that can never be cured and only arrested by total abstinence. It affects everything and one it comes into contact with and that now is you and us. Stay with this family. In support. ((((hugs)))) smile

Tattyhead · Senior Member

Linda, I cannot add to what has already been said. Just wanted to send you (((hugs))) and let you know you are in my thoughts and prayers.

Tish xxx

Overcome · Senior Member

Linda,

you have gotten great responses to your post and each one is special in it's own way, guiding you and directing you to your own decision, that's how al-anon works!

I wanted to share my experience, strength and hope concerning the "church" issue. I am a devout Christian, so Jesus is the "God of my Understanding", however... sometimes church people just can't wrap their minds around the family disease of alcoholism and it's been my personal experience that sometimes the "advice" they give comes from a place that is well-meaning, yet uninformed.

I also had this experience when I was fighting Cancer. The only people that could really "minister" to me were other Cancer patients that had survived that dreaded disease. I think that is true of alcoholism as well, whether you are the Alcoholic, or the one that loves an alcoholic. Only others who have been where you are, will be able to "lead you home" to the place known as peace and serenity that is so often talked about in these rooms.

I pray that you can find this peace and serenity and that you can find a place in your life for both your church and your al-anon program... because actually your Higher Power is using both to help you through this time.

Shalom,

Overcome

Linda77 · Member

Your ending "Shalom"...God is with you...thank you for the message...Shalom has very special meaning to me, and I know the help I have received in the past two days is invaluable...my mind has been alternating between rest and the ever present fear...he called me after a 2nd interview Friday...the conversation began on a positive note...10.00 an hour, bonuses, then after 6 months, they make him a partner at 8% interest...AND (his voice lifts), there is a vacant apartment above the establishment...600.00 dollars a month...no need to buy another car right now...AND then the WHAMO...but I need a laptop. I said nothing. The owner said he bought one from Walmart for 250.00. That is the pattern...great opportunities...just a little help to get me started...if I do not help (and I told him I couldn't)...he jumps in and tries to take off running...I tried to explain last night that he is out of jail "on bond"...he MUST take care of this court thing first...I will help getting to work until the court date is over....and, I explained, you don't go from living on foodstamps to buying a laptop computer and living in a 600 dollar apartment over night. He told me to just stop talking....he didn't want to listen to me...He ALWAYS does this...his last job was the same...."I've got to have my own place...got to have my own apartment..." He was making minimum wage then...but, he could have stayed here...paid his fines and then get his driver's license back...I know these are just symptoms, all of the details are symptoms, but my mind is reeling with the pattern...he will not be albe to handle the stress of living alone...he'll throw himself whole heartedly into helping the business get started...then, he will get overwhelmed...start drinking on the job..."borrowing" money ... and he will be in a deeper hole...and, I know I am directing my fears on him...I have that little blue book I bought at ALanon a year ago..the daily bible...I told him I would ask to be taken off the bond if he moves out of my house...I can't be responsible for him if I do not know where he is...at the same time, I understand his need to be independent...the pastor of our home mission was an alcoholic...but it's been 26 years since he had a drink...does he really know the horrors of today. I am so sorry...I cannot express the appreciation I have felt for all of your concerns and advice...I know from reading your posts that you understand...but, I can't let go of the fear mounting inside...it's all so famliar..the great build up...then the crash...am I cracy...he said I was...but I also know he loves me...oh, I am so sorry.

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

Linda,

The face to face meetings and wonderful people in Alanon taught me how to detach with love. It is not a concept I can learn from this board per se. It took me hearing from a face to face person, working with a sponsor, how they did it and make a decision as to if that sounded right to me.

In support,

Tommye

rrib · Senior Member

Linda77 wrote:
...I told him I would ask to be taken off the bond if he moves out of my house...I can't be responsible for him if I do not know where he is...at the same time, I understand his need to be independent...

Ask yourself what are your real motives here? Did you sign the bond to help him because you knew he'd start getting better if he stayed out of jail? Or did you sign the bond to have some kind of 'control' over him and stay plugged into his problems, knowing full well what he would do and that strike 3 is going to be you losing the bond money?

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Linda

Dealing with the alcoholism of a child is indeed extremely painful. You are not alone and do really need the support of a face to face meeting and this Board.

Living with this disease causes each of us to respond in unhealthy ways. Sharing your pain lessens it, talking it over, opens our minds to new solutions.

Learning new ways to respond and new tools to live by causes a miracle within.

Please keep coming back

youfoundme · ~*Service Worker*~

There is help for you in alanon meetings.... HUGS and welcome here !!! There is some great literature that can help you. ALanon's books Courage to Change, One Day at a time and As we understood. Getting Them Sober is a book that is not alanon literature, but can help as well. Yet another great book that I just read is Beautiful Boy by David Sheff. Its a book by a dad about his son's addictions.
Alanon is for you, to help you recover from the family disease of alcoholism. There is a miracle waiting here, take care of you! HUGS

Linda77 · Member

Good news! I found that there are more Alanon meetings in my town than on my church night. There is one tonight, but getting my son home from work will not allow me to be there on time. There are others...I wonder if anyone can help me understand the titles of the classes. the one tomorrow night is called LISTEN & LEARN
044895, and there is one on Wednesday called FREEDOM 0043906. Does the title make any difference? Is it representative of some level?

Linda77 · Member

rrib wrote:
Ask yourself what are your real motives here? Did you sign the bond to help him because you knew he'd start getting better if he stayed out of jail? Or did you sign the bond to have some kind of 'control' over him and stay plugged into his problems, knowing full well what he would do and that strike 3 is going to be you losing the bond money?

I have asked myself this question over and over...my oldest daughter has told me to never contact her or her children again...that my paying his bail proves that I don't have the sense God gave a retarded person...harsh words, but she is married to a man with drug addictions...I know only that when she called and told me he was in jail...tht he had been drunk, totaled his car, etc......there was almost glee in her voice...and she said, this time he has done it for good...he will be there for a very long time...my mind then jumped to the horrors of jail and what his mind would be faced with...could his mind hold up to being abused by inmates...I am 60 years old...would I ever see my son again...hear him in the kitchen at night...know he was safe...I know it was selfish...wanting him home...so I prayed, spoke to my pastor and his wife...my cousin and his wife...and tried to leave him in jail...then he called and told me he was not drinking...there were no more charges...I prayed more...oh, I can't answer all the questions...and I've read fiddleman's post over and over and over...

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Linda,

Hugs and welcome, so sorry you are going through such a difficult time. I think if you call the alanon hotline in your area you could find out what each meeting is about? I don't know however it doesn't hurt to ask. Some meetings are share meetings, some meetings are basic step meetings. I go to both during the week. Each meeting even if it's labeled a share meeting has its own flavor and no meetings are really conducted the same way. The basic premiss is the same however different people bring different things to the tables. So don't worry about it, go and find out about alanon and what it can bring to you. I have found peace of mind and a whole lot of serenity.

I had the loveliest compliment at church the other day. My son (7) and I went to a different service than my daughter (12), she spent the night at a friends. Well we were at the other sanctuary waiting for my daughter, and a long time member I know stopped and asked me how my week was. I laughed and said crazy however good. He smiled and said you know watching you and your son I would have never guessed the word "crazy" in the mix. You look so relaxed. I thought to myself, it has been a crazy week, some of it has been v-8 moments of "seriously?" I DO feel so relaxed and so not uptight all of the time through out my day.

That is what alanon has given back to me. What I had forgotten or maybe even never learned as a child. How to truly be relaxed regardless of the situation. I always have choices in how I am going to react.

Please keep coming back and I hope you will come back and share about your first meeting.

Hugs P :)

rrib · Senior Member

You wrote 'I wonder if anyone can help me understand the titles of the classes'

Alcoholism/addiction is called a family disease because it effects all the family members. Al-Anon is not a series of 'classes'. It is a 12 step program of recovery from the effects of alcoholism which you are suffering. Sure, you learn things. You learn about yourself and you learn to be emotionally healthy. An Al-Anon Group is a bunch of people just like me and you. In any particular group, you are likely to find people at various stages of recovery from beginner to old-timer. Each group gives itself a name. The name may or may not have some meaning.

You also wrote '...and I've read fiddleman's post over and over and over...'

Please understand that if you were any good at being your son's 'treatment center', he'd be cured by now and you would not be having these 'issues' with him. It is often true that addicts/alcoholics need to reach some kind of 'bottom' before they are willing to get or accept help. This is why, when family members stop rescuing them they are more likely to get help. Because their problem becomes THEIR problem instead of YOUR problem. Maybe a little jail time is just what your son needs to wake up. So, it's OK to say 'Your fired Linda'.

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

Well I can certainly understand your daughter in law's response. Anyone would be angry when they are trying to bring children up to be dealing with someone who keeps going out and destroying things. I was certainly absolutely enraged when the ex A totalled trucks, cars, you name it he totalled it.

Like you, I didn't know much what to do. For some reason the ex A never went to jail for long. He had some kind of midas touch when it came to that. He drove all the time on a suspended license, never got caught. I know people who went to jal for that. He also had run in's like leaving the scene of an accident and he didn't go to jail for that either. He'd total up these huge fines, pay them, then total up some more.

Living around that kind of chaos makes many of us feel helpless, crazy and not know how to respond.

There is no "right" response. I would suggest you get the book Getting them Sober. Whatever image you have of your son being "safe" at home isn't possible as long as he's an alcoholic. No one can be "safe" as an alcoholic. I watch alcoholics day in day out, get their lives in incredible messes and say" they are not worried". I also watch people around them respond in ways that don't particularly draw them towards recovery. Who's at fault. I dont' know that either one is.

I know for me being around an alcoholic without a program like al anon is a short cut to a real decline in my mental health. I become helpless, resentful, in denial, spend all my time on the alcoholic and my health and my life go down the toilet. I have to make choices these days and some of them are hard ones. I no longer pay for anything for an alcoholic that they can pay for themselves. I also dont' step in and pay for or help an alcoholic live when they've been put in a situation where they are homeless. And that isn't because I am heartless.

I can well understand the heartache and pain you are going through. This board can be a lifeline to getting out of the pain and into the "solution". One place to go when you are worried out of your mind is to the chat room. There is generally someone there twice a day. There are also meetings there twice a day.

I can't recommend the book Getting them Sober enough. Expectations are so so key in early recovery and in dealing with an alcoholic. You need to expect your son to be in denial, reluctant to seek recovery and wanting you to step in and take over. He'll promise the moon and deliver little until he gets to the point where he can't do this anymore.

Good luck. I look forward to learning more about you and sharing the gift of recovery.

maresie.

Linda77 · Member

maresie wrote:
...He had some kind of midas touch when it came to that. He drove all the time on a suspended license, never got caught....

I don't understand that...but, I've seen it in my uncle, my daughter's husband, and some others...I wonder if that is part of the curse. I don't know why that is so...my uncle had more business opportunites than any person I know...but, he always lost in the end to the alcohol. He died alone, in a horrible old rent house...no running water...he had COPD...and lived entirely in the living room. It was so terribly sad...but, my son never saw this.

rrib, all day I have thought about being "fired"...I've never been fired in my life...and I know you cannot fire a mother...she will always be a mother..but, I am truly trying to accept that my current employment in this situation is being over.

Irene · Member

My heart goes out to you! I have lived thru something similar when my oldest son was addicted to cocaine. It was the most helpless feeling to watch a child of your own self destruct. I never knew what was going to happen next! I did everything that I could for him..and a lot that I shouldn't have! It took me a while, and the support of AlaNon before I gave him the choice of pressing charges against him for stealing from me and his father OR rehabilitation! Fortunately, at that time he was considered homeless as I had kicked him out. I could not afford long term treatment for him without second mortgaging my house. So I prayed hard, talked with AA sponsors about treatment centers that were spiritually based. I was able to get him into a center that was long term care at no cost! It made a world of difference!! He got saved and came to terms with his addiction. To my knowledge he has never done cocaine again! It almost killed him.

They call it tough love...because when it comes to your children the consequences can be tougher for us than them. The day I checked him into rehab was the best thing that I ever did. I was ready to press charges on my own son! To me....if I had to go thru all of that all over again, when he got arrested, he would have sat there. The rescueing that I did only gave him the opportunity to continue his destruction. Sometimes, we have to walk away! Of course, always easier said than done. I realized that I would be burying my son if something drastic didn't happen to save his life. There is no saving your son if he hasn't hit rock bottom......if he isn't ready! Save yourself with AlaNon meetings and your Higher Power.

No matter how old our children are when they are afflicted with addiction, we want to nurture them to health, blame ourselves for what we should have , could have , would have done! There is no going back! I experienced a tremendous amout of guilt thru my sons addiction. Face it , we did the best we could! He's an adult and his life is his choice now. Love him and never give up hope, the only thing that will help is Letting GO and Let God! Sometimes, we get in the way! HUGS to you!

Hot Chicka · Veteran Member

Linda - you have so many great thoughts sent out your way! I send my warm thoughts, too.

One more thought to add, is this..... An alcoholic is not going to change anything unless they hit rock bottom. Here's the catch.....everyone has a different rock bottom. For some, it is as simple as DUI. Others, unfortunately, may never hit rock bottom and lose their live in the process. Most are probably somewhere in the middle, but that is just my opinion.

I learned that with my AH, I had to just completely get out of the way and let him get there on his own. He may have hit his rock bottom with a serious car crash and resulting consequences. But then again, he is starting to think he can have "a few" every now and then. I don't know where his journey with alcohol is headed, but I'll tell you this: I am going to let him take that journey by himself.

I will keep you in my prayers!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.