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thankfully my dramas are over (apart from the occaisional bad phase) and mostly i tend to sympathise more with the people who are having to live with this disease on a daily basis- thats where it can get heavy going
so anyways...as an adult child i am lucky enough to be able to detach real well
hooooooooorayy
apart from the odd time- because your mums opinion always seem to matter etc etc
anway......i just want to vent really- due to the fact ive not had support with this problem over last 40 years and now ive found this site im gonna use it
so my mum. is really quite sick- shes been sober for years but sobriety doesnt mean mental stability. her conversations are way too unhealthy and self absorbed. she has to talk about her favourite topics (family matters) and has to have control
her conversations are always- and always have been way too heavy than is healthy- its Dallas and Dynasty- because he enjoys it but also because she must have an awful lot of crap to process (which is manifested from her sickness)
but sometimes i think she just needs to chat about normal stuff- i long to have casual- friendly conversations- chat about the recession-neighbours annoyances- job offers- painting- the future
yu know how in normal conversatins there is a give and take- where you talk about what interests you and then you think- well what do they want to talk about- so you listen for a while? well with my mum its all take- take - take
and she even does it with my 16 year old son wh deserves to be listened to and have an interest.
but dnt take me wrng- shes very generous and loving just sick.
to put it this way- some of my friends have been gobsmacked when they met her (small lives they must have had)
so anyway, because she is sick. and i am actually mindful of supporting AA members, I listen- i know she needs to vent and talk things through- so she gets a good long time to talk about what she wants- plus she lives on her own so i know how thats like.
but after half an hour or more- shes talkd through it all- its done and its processed- so then she just starts repeating it all over again.
this is how either sick or self absored she is- if you spent the whole day with her- shed do it all day !!!!!
and then she repeats sentences...like what happened when she saw her grandchildren- and shell repeat the scenarios....and shell also make up stuff- or she gets deluded- one of the other as she tell me how other people are feeling. she makes an awful lot of unhealthy presumptions
so when she starts to repeat it all again...im starting to think...how nice it would be to have a TWO WAY CONVERSATION....
her friends have even told her thats its "self gratification" but she still quite cant suss it out enough to change it- bless her.
Id love the talk about art and painting all day....and to talk about me- and my favourite subjects....but unfortunately life isnt like that....for a start the world isnt that interested.
like - we went into a gallery and she started telling the owner about her painting experiences- and it started getting so indepth....." gallery owners used to say i had a nice style....blah...bah....blah...."
when we got outside i said, "why do you do it? people arent interested in other people to such a high degree"
she said "I know, i dnt know why i do it...."
I think she gets carried away, and also i think communication must be hard for her- maybe she doesnt know how to talk
anyway....its extremely odd- as parents are usually more interested in their childrens lives and into their children....arent they? LOL
luckily am am old and dont need her, but the self obsession is born out of sickness but its very annoying- we are all in this world together and it doesnt spin around one person.
i just wondered if anyne else has the same experience? because after an hour of listening im starting to think come on now- you should be looking bey9nd your own self now...but she doesnt.
in now looking like im complaining about silly things now- but when its consistently like it, its actually really annoying and does her no favours because i put off spending time with her as it can be so difficult. not the fact of listening- but the one sided conversations
yesterday this man next to us on the cafe table started sniggering- as she sunded so Dallas like. but i mouthed to her "ignore it- carry on" because i think if people are a bit barmy- its kind of obvious......but if you didnt know her she would sound like was some kind of schemer out to shoot JR or something.
whenever i try and steer the conversation over to smethign mundane she dismisses it- oh im not talking about silly stuff like that- thats not important
anyway...i know its only something little, and im really quite grateful im not in the past trauma i used to be in and feel for anyone who is living with an active drunk as it really can be hellish
thanks for listening and letting me vent. sincere gratitude!!!! XXXXX
(its nice to be listened to for a change....ha ha ha- maybe one day we can talk about the weather? BLISS!)
Yes, I can relate to your post. I have lived with active alocholics and the "dry drunk" syndrome type also, where the A have quit "drinking" but have sought out no recovery so stay in the "isms" of the disease and it's sickness.
This is very tiring, if we focus on them, and not on us. And yes, alcoholics are very self-absorbed, as are we often, before we get in the program. My alcoholic (most recent ex-husband, there have been 4! lol) spends much of his time "focusing" on me and what I should do or not do, where I should go, how I should think, what I should feel. How my daughter should think, or feel, or act, or do. Very rarely (if ever) does he look at what he does, thinks, or feels. Or look at the realtionship between he and his 24 year old son, and what his life of drinking and womanizing did to that boy. Anyway, I digress....
How old is your mother? Mine is 88 and has moderate Alzheimer's, but she is not alcoholic, however at times she can be self-absorbed... always has been. But a lot of what you said about your mom resounded with me, especially the part about your mother repeating herself, over and over, and over. This can be a sign of Alzhiemer's. There is also a type of alcohol induced Alzheimer's called "wet brain", you may want to look that up on-line.
Just wanted you to know that you weren't alone, and no you aren't crazy! There are others of us out here! LOL
Overcome
"If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got."
-- Edited by Overcome on Wednesday 14th of September 2011 06:58:22 AM
-- Edited by Overcome on Wednesday 14th of September 2011 07:05:45 AM
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I can Overcome all things through my HP who strengthens me.
I have a mother similar to the lady you described. We dont live in the same city. Calling her on the phone would just drive me crazy too. I felt like I was being held hostage. In some cases, I thought if Iwould just put the phone down on the sofa, I dont think she would notice. Out of duty I would give her a ring just to say hello. I think that was all I was able to get in the conversation besides goodbye.
Being a member of Alanon has softened me quite abit. It is in my face to face meetings where I learned how to listen. We have a principal in our face to face group of no crosstalk which is many things, mainly not commenting on another person while they are sharing. The most loving thing I can do for my mother today is to give her a ring or to take her phone call when she calls AND listen. In the past I would always let it go to voicemail or the answering machine because I could not stand the weight of the conversation. It would have to be on my terms when I was ready to call, under my CONTROL.
Today listening is a form of love for me. I learned how to listen to people in my homegroup which is quite large and I assure you we are all people who would not normally mix. In the begininning when I was trying to practice this with my mom on the phone I would visualize my mother being a newcomer to the program. I would listen to her with love. Eventually I was able to give her encouragement and support in the conversation. When I let her go, she eventually got to a point where she would run out of things to say. Then I would support/encourage her by actually participating in the conversation little by little. This was not an overnight deal. I never did it perfectly. But today I can talk to my mom on the phone and spend several days with her and we have a great time.
Bottom line for me is that my mom cant give what she doesnt have. You see, the way she was turned a lot of people off and they too would back away from her because of the self centeredness and conversation dominator. When she got to me, she unloaded perhaps because I was the only one who would listen.
Today I feel like we all want to be able to communicate with at least one person and be h e a r d. Not too many people want to give the gift of time to be present and listen to each other. That is why I love the face to face rooms of Alanon because no matter what you say, members will listen. The magic in our relationship occured when I was able to accept my mom for who she is and begin to build a relationship from there.
Are we long lost twins?? :) I smiled when I read your post that is so my mother and I all over and interestingly enough my mother is not an A or a recovering A. She is just that self absorbed or lacks the ability to notice anyone else. You post gave me soooo much hope that I don't have to fall into the trap of being completely self absorbed myself. I also have come to accept this is part of who she is, my mom is 70, and chances of her changing are about as many as me winning the lotto. I have started to be able when she comes back to the same topic, at that point I end the conversation. I realize she's actually done and she really doesn't know how to end the conversation. I do also have to limit the conversations to a time. I do have things I have to get done.
I totally agree it is used as a tool of deflection as long as the focus is not on self there is no way to look inside and for many people looking inside hurts way to bad to even try and go there.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I sure could relate to this post. My mom is an unrecovered acoa and its always been about her. She will listen but cannot help but throw her two cents of advice in. Hell, she will give advice to anyone who will listen to her. The funny thing is she thinks she has spent her whole life helping people and was a dedicated wonderful mother who was always there for her kids. The truth is she was so miserable when I was growing up she could not see past herself. She was always helping other people when her own family was falling apart. I know she cannot see any of this. It like thinking an alcholic will ever understand the harm they have done to those around them. I dont know, today I can completely detach from her because I know what it looks like and I understand it. My mom lived in a fantasy world and my guess would be it was becasue the reality of her world was just to painful for her to cope with and she had no recovery and no healthy coping skills. Today as bad as this may sound she is a wonderful reminder to me of everything I dont want to be. Thank god I found recovery becasue that could have been me. I love my mom, but gratefully I see and understand the whole dynamics and distorted thinking that comes from being affected by alcholism and or addiction. It is deep rooted to say the least. I can accept her as she is ...that doesnt mean I dont find myself rolling my eyes at times :)
You had written in another one of your post that your mother is BPD in addition to being alcoholic. That's extremely tough!
I responded to your post and shared with you that my mother, who recently passed at the age of 82, was BPD, too.
I'm responding to let you know that you've been heard.
As I got older and my mother got more entangled with her thoughts about herself, I learned to place a limit on my visits with her. She did not understand this, and as a result, often spoke harshly about me to others. I learned to accept this; it was part of her personality disorder. Nothing I did usually did not please her. I learned, and still learning, the self-care has to come first. Something she was unable to teach me or my siblings.
Take good care, Gail
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
thanks so much for your replies- please feel free t digress at any time!! I really dont mind....
yes i do have the gift of listening and yes this is a gift i give- a gift of love and time...but there is only so much a person should listen too- is not healthy for my mum to repeat and talk about her favourite topics all the time.....she can, but she goes overboard....
that said...i still let her do it....and yes if i was with her all day, shed do it then. it is something i have to accept and do accept.
i think its quite funny though how i start off relly determined to give her support and to selflessly give my time up to her issues...but after an hour....well ets say, that "selfless " attitude begins to wear quite thin-lol, and i start sighing and getting distracted.....this is real life, being that self absorbed to such a high degree is not good....that said....she still gets away with it
one thing you cant do- is tell you parents what to do and what to say.....
but you know...you guys arent the first people to say they have similar experiences with their mums who are not alcoholics, my friends mum stays with my friend and eats her out of house and home and she feels like the mum- like its flipped. my friend thinks its the baby boomer generation syndrome- where people from this generation thinks everything has to spin around them.
your replies struck a chord with me too, which is nice to hear after so many years of not knowing anyone else with the same problem
the fixation on other people and not looking at themselves....thats a BIG one...and negativity can be a major bummer- a real big issue- sometimes you just cant tell her anything as shell put a negative spin on it. ill give you a current example
lately i went for this crap hospital cleaning job interview- its something im already trained for- but i knew it wouldnt be the solution to go back to that work, so i had the interview but didnt chase it up after that- and couldnt really care whether i got the job or not
anyway my mum asked "did you get the job?"
and i said....."no...i dont think so....."
and she replied "No..i didnt think yu would...it would have gone on references....."""
i always have to be on defence- whats the position in football? the quarter back or something....like im bending down ready to receive those fast balls coming and ive got quickly grab the balls and throw them off. but sometimes the balls just come too fast and too quick...and im like...i got to tel out f here and leave you with your negativity and what you do with it is up to you......
and then shell moan shes lonely and unsupported.......
sadly game playing is the only way she knows how to conduct her relationships. i dont hold it against her (much) its just REALLY annoying because it can chip- chip- chip away at the old self esteem, and im getting too old for feeling second rate now..im 40 and i only have one shot and dont want to be feeling second rate all my life
please feel free to digress- anyone- at any time.....the world doesnt need to spin around me...its so nice to listen to other peoples experiences. it helps HUGELY
i just want to add- that im probably not as judgemental towards my mum as i come accross in my posts- i support her. well i do my best. but often its hard going- and wheres my support? this is why ive come here- because sometimes it gets so heavy- i genuinely do put my head in my hands and thin i need support with this. i am there fr my mum but wheres my support? do you know what i mean? and i think it must be like this for everyone who is a carer or livving with someone with mental disorders....just sometimes yu feel you need therapy over it
well there cant be one person on this forum who cant identify with that one!!! LOL
these bumbling posts are just my way of trying to reach out and get that support really, and i dont know how other way to describe it other than it coming accross as really judgemental towards my mum. im actually way over the disappointment and longing for her to be more more normal-
and she has qualities that stomps on some other sober parents.....but if i talked about those i would really be rooting around the issues that i would like to talk about
anyway....agh....talk about self absorbed.....quick someone digress before i get any more "into" myself-lol
Your healing and your story IS about you. That's ok too. :)
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Thanks Gail for your post....sometimes for sme reason i dont read the last reply- maybe ts being posted at the same time....i dont know why i keep missing the last reply on threads
anyway....thanks for hearing me!!!! i do feel brighter about things since talking about them. hopefully things will settle for a while and will stay on an even keel- no tantrms- dramas- arguments- just me accepting her- and her accepting me.
