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I am in a quandary this morning As I have been keeping to myself and reading and trying to change my anxious and controlling behavior,(and codependence) my AH has upped the ante and been acting out even more than before.Is this a common pattern?His behavior is so disrespectful of me that I dont know how to even explain it without a whole page.It is passive/aggressive behavior, leaving me out of the loop, giving me bits of information or misleading me on purpose.I asked him last night, after he stood me up for dinner for the 3rd time this week, to just be honest with me when he plans to be gone all evening, so I can make plans of my own.He doesnt see the issue.
I have been consumed with reading my al anon literature to try to better me and also avoid confrontation with him.Now he tells me he sick of watching me deal with my emotional issues, and by that he means, my depression, my going to Al Anon, my working the steps by reading Courage to Change, my bible and self help books. He also said this morning that he is seeing signs of dementia in me and is Not going to stick around for that.(My mom has Alzheimers and granted, when I am extremely tired and stressed I feel like Im getting it, but my doctor says no).I found that so hurtful that after 35 years of marriage, that is his stance. He will not acknowledge that his behavior does influence my mental state, even though I know I should not allow it to. He stated that after 6 counseling visits he is cured, but is continuing to drink, just away from me. He doesnt believe he is an alcoholic and that it affects our marriage. When I told him this morning that we needed to talk about the weekend, our rent house, our upcoming vacation (is it on or off), I got the barrage of name calling and blame.I admitted to him that I have problems with wanting to control and being anxious and told him that I am working on it, but that I need to see that he is also working on it and that we have a partnership.I got no indication that he wanted to do that and so have asked him to move out and into our rent house.I am pretty hopeless at this point that it can ever be fixed. And I feel torn because I never wanted our marriage to end; I just didnt want the marriage that we had.I am not as emotionally distraught as in the past, but I am still questioning my judgment he has gotten into my head again.Is it really all my fau
my behaviour was really appalling when my husband started to gain recovery, I wanted to hold him accountable for every inch of my pain, luckily for me he stood strong against me and didn't falter, after a while I had no choice but to look at myself and think, hold on a minute, why are we still battling now that the drinking has stopped, a very wise person says here, they cannot come home to an old idea, don't give up now keep strong right is might, and eventually the change will come and you will feel it too, I was that old idea, and now I am trying to be a new one, it feels much nicer.
I don't think my behavior has been wrong. I have accepted my responsibility for my half of where we are in our marriage. I have been detaching with love. Any distance that he perceives is his choice as much as mine. I think he has upped his bad behavior to try to get a rise out of me, like always. I stood firm to the detaching principles for 6 days of it. I am giving him much more latitude than in the past and being kind to him, although we are distant for sure. But I don't see him working at all. He still drinks, he does not go to AA, he has stopped his counseling. If he won't admit that his alcohol abuse and behavior has any effect on our marriage, how can it ever change? I think we give way too much lattitude to our alcoholics in our lives if we just accept that we have to do all the changing. It has to be a two way street. And frankly I don't have time to change just me and HOPE that somehow he is changed. That may never happen and in the meantime I am living with an emotionally abusive person, and letting my health and sanity suffer in the process.
My AH does the same thing- makes me think that my memory is shorting out. I think that this is his way of diverting the attention away from him and his own issues. I learned a long time ago that he also tries to control me by coming home late and having to wait for him so we could start dinner. I soon learned to detach by proceeding with dinner at the planned time and not saying anything about it when he finally came home. He also doesn't believe he's an alcoholic even though he is attending mandatory AA meetings each week and alcohol education classes/counseling due to his DUI (his blood alcohol level was .24- three times the allowable limit). We have been married over 29 years and are currently separated (my choice in order to find my serenity and sanity). My memory seems to have improved greatly since I moved out. Coincidence? I think not!
Dear OG - mine blames menopause (even though I'm not near that stage yet); bi-polarism (HUH?); my daughter (she runs my life donchaknow); psychosis (of course I'm psychotic from living with HIM); and anything else that absolves him of any responsibility for our problems. Your H's behavior sounds like what mine was doing, even living apart he was always blasting me with all the blame and I decided that the only way he was going to return to treating me with any kind of basic respect that EVERY human being deserves was to end it completely. I saw him as being caught up in the same old fight that I wanted out of. I didn't want to keep riding that insanity merry-go-round and the only person I could control was me - so I jumped off. My H is empowered by the fighting, turned on by it, and once in it he fights to win, hitting below the belt is not an illegal punch in his rules and my only choice was to just not play. Someone said to me - you can always get married again. So, if miracles happen and he gets sober, works a recovery program and - and this is a big AND - i like who he turns out to be sober (!) - I would give him a chance to win my heart again. (I believe time is limited on that one because I am not going to sit in a corner and wait, and, there are other fish in the sea (though it will be awhile before I cast a line) - his loss.)
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Even if you put the drinking aside, he's still being passive aggressive and has stopped going to counseling. Personally, I probably would have done the same thing especially if I had another rental home for him to retreat to. Sometimes a break is necessary so both parties can decide where they want to be in the future and what they need to work on. Despite what my AH does to me: lying, hiding bottles, etc he does go to counseling and he does want to work on our marriage. If that desire of his ever stopped, I can't say that I'd stick around. There's only so much that one person can do to keep a sinking ship afloat. It usually takes the effort of more than one, know what I mean? Without his effort and assistance, you feel like you're on your way to drowning so sometimes swimming to shore is the answer, and if he wants to follow you that would be great. Sometimes it's not, every relationship is different and every person has boundaries and limits to what they will put up with from their significant others/friends/children/parents, etc.
Living with someone who is verbally and emotionally abusive is hard. Believe me, I've been living it for the past 17 years and my AH wasn't even drinking for 16 of those years, LOL. My AH is passive aggressive and has a temper which was actually worse when he wasn't drinking. There are many times that I wish I had had the courage to do what I'm doing now: I'm finally walking out of the room when he gets argumentative, I'm finally telling him to stop talking when he gets his racial slurs going, I'm finally asking him to help me out with my to do list whether he gripes about it or not. And, I'm finally getting to the point where I realize that challenging him about his alcohol lies isn't going to benefit anybody and only makes things worse, so I keep my mouth shut. Instead of getting pissy about it, I walk away and go pray or find something that gives me peace. Keeping a journal has been really helpful to me, too.
Greeneyes and likemyheart - you both seem to have been where I am. I honestly don't belive that it is ALL Me. If it was, why would all the behaviors I see on the alcoholics sites fit him so well. And even though I know I am SCREWED UP and have been codependent and controlling in the past, I also KNOW that I am improving and most importantly I AM WILLING TO CHANGE TO MAKE IT WORK. I can not continue to allow him to pull me into the name-calling hateful patterns and I already know if I defend myself he doesn't listen anyway. I can only change my behavior and obviously I CAN'T Change his. But the constant effort is wearing me down when I feel that there is no effort on the other side. Perhaps not living under the same roof will shed some light. I would love it if we both came to realizations and changes that made it possible to work again. Yes, we could always remarry and yes I could find another fish in the sea, although I think a lot of time on my own, alone , is what I need to discover what makes me tick and what makes me happy. Thanks for the input.
Ilovedogs - thank you for your words of support. I have kept a journal in the past. And I just started a gratitude journal and dream journal. I am reading codependent no more so am putting everything on the list, whether I really see it as a positive or not. Let me say, my AH would go in and read my journals before and so I quit keeping one. He would always slide in some sarcastic remark that I knew could only be tied to his reading my journal. If he doesn't leave, I will have to remember to walk out of the room, leave or just find someplace to find peace. I can usually do that, but in the end if I do that, he just leaves and I end up sitting along for a long long time, feeling lonely. I know I have to work on me, get out more, create interests, and also be content with being alone. It just feels so much like rejection when it is his leaving. And even now as I sit knowing his moving out would be best, after 35 years together, it is a scary thing to be alone.
I was married to my A for 36 years. The last 26 years of the marriage was a crazy merry go round for certain!
We were separated 8 months and divorced for 12. So I was "alone" for 20 consecutive months. At first, it was a little scary because I had only known marriage my entire adult life. But then, I leaned into the solitude and began really focusing on me. Back in March I began Al-Anon, dropped my private counseling and began to read Al-Anon literature.
That's the Reader's Digest version of my married/divorced life. Just to give you a little background.
In hindsight, if I had to do it all over again, I would have joined Al-Anon much sooner - say - oh, 26 years earlier I would also not try to convince him that he had a problem and instead focus entirely on me. That's difficult to do, but with lots of practice it can be done. I would not take to heart what he told me: I was a prude; it was my fault he drank; I'm never satisfied, etc., etc. I would remind myself that you can't reason with an active alcoholic.
I don't believe that it's always necessary to separate to recover. There are many on this board that can testify to that statement.
Recovery is an on-going process with no end (my opinion). Be patient with yourself. Continue meetings, reading literature, apply what you've learned to the best of your ability, and embrace the slogan: progress not perfection. A lot of other slogans are helpful as well.
As far as your journaling, can't you keep your journal where he can't get to it? Writing can be so helpful to you. Going back and reading it can help you see your growth. It can also be a way to get "stuff" out of your system. I sure would hate to see you give it up because of his comments.
Al-Anon has helped me to not take anything personally - no matter who says or does something. I didn't get that concept easily. But it's becoming clearer as I work my program.
You're doing better than it feels to you; I hope that helps.
As the say goes: Take what you like and leave the rest
Take care, Gail
-- Edited by GailMichelle on Friday 2nd of September 2011 01:27:27 PM
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Gail, thanks for the supportive words. I am going to continue to journal and not care if he reads it or not. In fact, I am going to assume he will read it if he is still living with me. I can always write the things I really don't want him to read in shorthand - knew that old high school class would come in handy. :) I am glad I have al-anon and wish I had seen the need and done it 26 years ago too. Or maybe wish I had been STRONG enough to do it many years ago. I let it get so bad at home that I had to take action or realize I really was a doormat. I actually thought I had him onboard for a month or so. I think because of the volatility of our relationship and me waiting so long, that a seperation is absolutely necessary. But getting that done isn't so easy. Who knows, maybe he will follow though on what he said and move out. I am hoping so as I cannot leave the home we live in as it is part of my mother's estate and is unsettled. (she is in an Alz.home). I too want to really work on me, make me feel more secure, more capable, more in touch with my wants and needs and who I am. I have been trying but I think it is threatening to my AH to see me reading, and I know he is threatened by me having interests and friends. He won't admit it, but he pushes so that I eventually give them up, or have in the past. I am so thankful that I have MIP to come to. I plan to call someone on my list of names from f2f meetings this weekend and see if I can get a sponsor. I would like someone who has a simliar background in their situation so they might better understand. Do you think it necessary for them to have an alcoholic spouse, or can it be a child, drug addic?
I dunno about being strong. Seems to me anyone who can survive living with an alcoholic is pretty strong. Plenty of people have died from it. I can attest personally to one or two who I know did.
I looked to the now ex A for everything emotionaly. I was distraught to the point of being suicidal for a long time. I kept at al anon and stopped being so focused on him.
That whole task of taking the focus of them is such an order. I currently live around alcoholics (one of them is a so called recovery counselor) they have one or more crises every single day. Now that they do, I do work super overtime not to be included. Nevertheless there is constant unremitting tension about mess, visitors (or should I say live in guests who come and go whenever they want), noise, finances(they all borrow off each other - needless to say none of them borrow from me).
Boundaries are all over the place but I have them.
I'm pretty removed from alcoholism most of the time but one small thing can trip me off into a lot of resentment.
Be nice to yourself. No one could live with an active alcoholic and not slip and slide some. The issue is you are in the right place.
Of course we all beat ourselves to the pulp about having a successful relationship. I think the success for me was getting to al anon and finally putting me first.
Keep posting, keep working on you. Things do change and all those skills eventually kick into place.
As far as the sponsor thing goes there is a great pamphlet about sponsorship (I got mine at my home meeting I know there is one online, and the link has been shared I couldn't find that one again!!). At first I looked for someone who was also still with their A because I thought maybe that would help me and I'm not looking to separate. I decided to just really listen to the longtimers of the meetings and sit and be with what they say about addiction. Then I started to listen to everyone and think is this someone I could relate to in general? Would I pick them as a friend outside of alanon to share my innermost self with? I asked and got turned down that was the pits, however after licking my wounds on that one I put myself further into the program and went to as many meetings as I could to see what was available. I wound up picking someone who is not at my home meetings I really like how she shares and the fact we laugh a lot together. It's also someone who I feel uplifted when we're done talking.
So long answer to your short question absolutely they don't have to walk exactly in your shoes if it's someone who you like what they have to say and how they say it. The important thing is relating, are you able to relate to how they apply their program. Take the emotional risk and ask and do not take it personally if someone says no. Everyone has their life happening and it's not always easy and some people don't think they are worthy to sponsor someone. Or as in my case they were newer than I understood to the program.
Of course your AH is threatened, you are changing and that's ok to change. Change is scary to the people it affects around us. Trust me, you are further along than you think and you are taking huge steps that is wonderful and I applaud you for taking those baby steps to change. (sometimes baby steps feel like that first step on the moon one small step for man one giant step for mankind kind of feeling.) You are doing a great job and remember we are all where we need to be in the steps of healing. It's also so very important to really see alcoholism as a disease and they are not doing it TO you. It does feel that way, however they really do it to themselves. Really I am so proud of you for taking this kind of step to move forward for yourself because you are so totally worth it!!
HA .. I'm sure my AH would love to go back to a year ago so he could call me crazy and I would just be like your right. At the time he went on and on about I'm to complicated and he's a simple man. HA HA HA .. really? Now I say thank you and yes I am, because I happen to be a real human being with lots of different gooey emotions that no longer define me, however are part of me and I'm ok with that. My simple man has all kinds of things he's facing at the moment, I've bitten my tongue more than once with the urge to ask well how's that simple life working for you now? I haven't .. lol .. I'm probably fortunate I found this program when I did because ohhh it has been there. I've never met someone who is really simple emotionally, maybe Mother Teresa or the Dali Lama, simple wants I can say yes, I'm pretty low maintenance in that department. We're all complicated because we are all works in progress and that's ok.
Have you been to an open AA meeting? Those have been soooo eye opening for me. To hear from the other side the guilt, shame, anger and total denial of having an issue of addiction. I can look at my AH with a lot kinder eyes after hearing some of those stories.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
god grant me the serenity to change the things i can .. the only real thing with my alcoholic i can change is My thinking .. i need Lots of help and honesty to do this .. one thing that helped me to recognize is my own expectations .. these are what really let me down .. i'm expecting honesty from my alcoholic .. if he could be honest he could see his problem and take the first step .. admitting powerlessness over situations, people, places, things, in short alcohol, etc..
i realised one day the gifts of the alanon program are hope, trust, serenity, wisdom, unity, etc.. and then i realised i was expecting him to give me all of these things .. something it takes time in program to develop .. insanity really ..
i remember arguing with my partner about not respecting me and telling him how he Never did .. one day we argued for 45 minutes and then it hit me .. i stopped dead in my tracks when i realised ... wow, we both have two different definitions of respect .. mine ?? consideration thoughtfulness loving action etc.. his ?? street .. respect with the guys .. ego first women in back .. fear ..
for what it's worth .. recognising this does make it easier for me to understand .. 3 meetings a week is what i need but also lots of literature and sponsor talks .. it only works if we work it .. if we don't work it .. we'll obssess on it and go nowhere forever .. infact, in another 15 years .. we'll Still be saying the same ..
Pushka-no I have not been to an open AA meeting. I really never even thought of it. My AH has only been to one or two. He claims he isn't an alcoholic. I think he is. I'll think about that. The one in our town is a smoker's group and I don't smoke, so wouldn't want to go to that one but maybe one in a nearby city. I appreciate your suggestions on chosing a sponsor. I think I need a little more time at meetings seeing who I gel with. I need to also attend them different days of the week, but it's hard. Have to ask my co-worker to adjust her schedule for me. Also, thanks for the words of comfort. I am a work in progress. Still have lots to do. Got a couple of books today at the library including the AA book so may gain more insight from them as well.
I have been living with a sober Husband now for 30 years , we will be married 50 years next year.
When he is stressed or 'out of routine' or doing something which he does not really want to do he is very unpleasant....this is frustrating and I can get angry.
But;
A modern saying which has popped up in the last 15 yrs or so is 'tough love' and those two words cover for me the Al-anon slogan 'First things first'.
This covers my needs first.... for determination to detach from his emotional problem, to silence, to serenity.
When he gets into a very unpleasant mood I often think this is too hard and I haul out my Al -anon books again.
Within a week he gradually gets over his stress and I believe tough love is how I am helpful...first to myself and secondly as a bonus to him.
Oldgraduate, you have gotten some excellent E S & H here. I am living with an active A, and I am doing it one day at a time. I am remembering the slogan "Easy Does it". I don't have to have everything all better in one day. I didn't get sick in one day and I can't get better in a day, or a week. It is going to take a while and each day that I live with the new tools I am learning about I feel better little by little.
My sponsor did not stay married. She has adult children that are alcoholics...so we differ quite a lot. But her words of serenity spoke to me, and I called her at first just to talk. Eventually it turned into the sponsor relationship that we have now. I have been reading One Day at a time in Alanon. That is my ultimate guide to the new tools. I also read "As We Understood..." A great book about finding our higher powers and it has great shares in it. The other tool I use is the XA Speaker website. You can google it, just type in XA Speaker Alanon and it will come up and lead you to some really great speaker tapes: Mary Pearl, Aileen, Alicia, Babs.... Some great women on there that have lived with an active A, went to alanon and have men who are getting recovery in AA/NA :)
The other thing I do every day is ask my HP to take the lead and I let go of trying to control others. I have to quit taking everything personally (something I always did).... And as for open AA meetings, well, they are just awesome! They help me see that this really is a disease and that the A has no choice, its not a moral decision, its a compulsion. And we have it too, we just choose to focus on others so we don't have to feel our disease. They say that we become just as addicted to our A as they are to the substance. And we are addicted to chaos and adrenalin. It can make us very sick.
Little by little, day by day, I am getting better through the tools of alanon. I also started at an ACOA meeting, and that is just an awesome place and something my sponsor and I are going to do together :) HUGS! Keep coming, you are worth it!
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-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
I am in a quandary this morning As I have been keeping to myself and reading and trying to change my anxious and controlling behavior,(and codependence) 
I would also not try to convince him that he had a problem and instead focus entirely on me. That's difficult to do, but with lots of practice it can be done. I would not take to heart what he told me: I was a prude; it was my fault he drank; I'm never satisfied, etc., etc. I would remind myself that you can't reason with an active alcoholic.