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It's like I feel like I'm a little kid. Like I need permission to get off the dang merry go round that I started in motion to begin with. I have every right and every desire to get off but I still fall into my sick ways.
Last night he came home from a dinner out with his boss and the President of his company. So, I knew they had all had a few drinks. He dropped them off at their hotel and he came home around 11. Then I hear things while I'm trying to fall asleep: cabinets opening and closing, the garage door opening quietly, the back door opening and closing, etc. So, of course, curiosity gets the better of me and I see that he's drinking a beer outside. No biggie, I expected it. Then I hear him in the garage, which is strange so I went down to see what the heck he's doing in the garage at midnight. Well, he was pulling beers out of a secret compartment in the trunk of his car. When I commented, "Well, that's an interesting hiding place." He blamed his boss and said that they were his and that he was given the beers. I asked, "Well, then why are the beers hiding?" He says, "Oh, because everyone's luggage was in the back and there was no room." For 2 beers? Seriously? LOL
I walked away, shaking my head. Does he really expect me to believe that his boss (who doesn't have a car here in town and just flew in from CA) somehow managed to stop and pick up a 6 pack and that he gave my dh a few beers to take home? How hard is it to just TELL THE TRUTH!??? His lies are far worse than the truth and they just seem so far fetched and so easy to blow a hole through. I have learned, though, that saying something is not even worth it because it's sad to watch him try to dig his way deeper into the lie. I literally can't stand to see it happen so it's best for me to walk away.
So, why did I bother to go downstairs in the first place? I knew what he was doing, or at least I had a suspicion? Why do I feel the need to confirm my suspicions? All it does it make him look like a better liar in my eyes and drives a wedge between us even further even if he doesn't realize it yet.
Then, I went outside this AM to find my 14 year old dog. She was outside for a long time and I realized that my dh had left the side gate open when he took out the trash last night. I was walking around the neighborhood in my robe, barefoot, looking for my old dog. I had just bandaged her foot because her nail was bleeding(she drags it on the ground) and so I didn't even have a blood trail to follow. Luckily, she can't go far but I'm sure the neighbors got a kick out of me when they were leaving for work, LOL!
I had a giggle at the very last part of your post I always figure oh well if the neighbors are going to talk give them something to talk about!!! It better be good and it better have some dark comedy tie to it too. :)
It's sooo hard not to take the bait when it's handed on a silver platter.
My AH had been hiding his drinking last year, I didn't know how much so until after the DUI. I had a very strong suspision. If you lived on my country block last year and your grass got over an inch high it was my AH's obsession he HAD to mow. I mean had to and it wouldn't even be our yard .. lol. I just would watch and shake my head. At the time I thought things were off however little did I know. I was just happy he had a hobby, .. oi little did I realize. He was literally mowing about 5 acers every week. He could not help himself.
The clue in point for me was when our 6 year old at the time decided he wanted to stay with his dad while he mowed and my AH had a temper tantrum. It took me a good min to figure out what was going on, little man is 6 not a toddler or an infant. All I could think was what is the big deal? I take the kids shopping with me, I take them everywhere I go and he can't mow a yard with our son there? WOW. Well, I then realized why after I found behind our small shed we're not talking about something you can park a riding mower in, small storage shed. It was the 24oz cans of beer. I then had a v-8 moment of smack myself on the forehead, grrr .. that's why he couldn't or wouldn't I should say take our son with him 5 yards down because the guy he was mowing for was supplying him with beer!
I think the saddest thing to me was when I found the beer cans behind this little shed. I thought WOW .. how flipping sad, he's squatted down behind this shed my AH is a big tall guy drinking, he has got to want that drink more than I was ever aware of. I felt humiliated, isn't that weird?? I felt humiliated and I'm not even the one who was hiding set down between a fence and a little shed, drinking. Of course what do I do .. lol .. boy oh boy, was I active in my craziness at the time, I start going back and counting how many new cans are behind the shed. Now talk about giving the neighbors something to talk about .. ROFLMAO .. can you imagine? Well, here comes the husband out having his booze. How much do you want to bet the wife follows in about 15 min? UGH .. I don't even want to go there with the conversations that might have taken place, .. it was one of those situations that it just was what it was, both of us acting out, both of us playing the parts we were willing to play.
I hadn't thought about the fact I haven't been behind that shed for almost a year now, I don't want to know. I have moments where I think maybe I should check (before the SCRAM) then I thought better of it. I think my worst nightmare during those thoughts are the kids finding me back there going mom what are you doing?? That usually stops me in my tracks before I make headway out there. Ironically my AH is not obsessing over the lawn mowing and now I need him to mow the lawn .. LOL. I would settle for moderation, then again there's not a lot to mow really .. we've had such a drought this year.
The best thing I do during those times of needing to check or having the impulse to check things is do something else. Especially if I already know the answers to the questions I'm wanting answered. The reality is the answer is always going to be the same, what am I getting out of the need to punish myself? What are my motives for checking? Am I willing to accept my part of the emotional turmoil I'm causing myself? It's it's really not worth it, I vote for turning over and going back to bed, sleep is a good thing even if at times it's elusive.
Hugs, there is always an off switch to the ride. P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Yes! What you said about not taking the bait when it comes on a silver platter. So true! And, yes, I find it sad that he likes to drink alone and that just enjoying time with his work friends wasn't enough for him, he had to come home and have 2 more beers. ALONE. What is the point of that when you've already had a few? I usually enjoy a glass or 2 of wine occasionally but that's about it. I don't sit there waiting for everyone to go to sleep or to disappear for me to have a glass of wine. I just pour myself a glass, sit down to a favorite TV show, and enjoy. I also don't have the desire to hide alcohol, etc. For years I thought I myself had a problem with alcohol but it was the fear that I didn't want to turn out like my dad(a self proclaimed alcohol abuser). So, every time I drank(even in college) I analyzed it to no end: why did you have 3 beers tonight, last night you only had 2, etc. By the time I was 21, I was feeling done with partying and was usually the designated driver to my sorority sisters. Tending to them when they puked in the street, driving them home, etc. I always knew my limits and I guess I should look back on that and realize that my AH did not. For the few years in the beginning of our relationship, I'd see him finish off a 6 pack by himself. It always seemed sad and depressing to me, but eventually he quit drinking and I agreed to marry him. Hey, I was marrying someone who was sober so I didn't worry about alcohol and then this past year happened and I find myself on the dang merry go round!
I still don't understand why he started hiding it in the first place. And, I'm still angry with him for lying, I just wish I could get past the anger part and just let myself move on but right now, it's all I feel. I know that in time, everything works out how it should and eventually everything will come out in the wash, so to speak.
Lying about the beer cans is part of the disease. He is in denial. The saddest part (to me) is he is fooling himself. It doesn't appear that you take it personally, and that is a good thing.
Old habits are not easy to break. Hopefully, one day you will hear him rambling around the home/garage and just go back to sleep. Little by little, you will let go if that is your desire.
In addition, your post reminded me of a conversation I had with a young lady whose husband always sneaks his drinks and then lies. She asked me what I did when that happened. I told her that I "used to" give him the third degree. I drilled him, expecting him to cough up the truth. Oh, that drill went on for far too many years.
In hindsight, if I had to do it all over again, I would not ask one single question about his drinking. Not one question.
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
After I submitted my reply to you, I read your response to Pushka.
What caught my attention is the anger you feel. I recall such anger. I had it for years. Then I was reading about how anger often masks the fear we have. I began asking myself what I feared. When I began to acknowledge my fears and address them, I realized the anger slowly dissolved.
I'm not certain if your anger is masking any fears. But perhaps it is worth contemplating it a bit.
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Yep, the merry-go-round of insanity.... dealing with active A's, and trying to make "sense out of nonsense".... it is definitely infuriating....
I remember when I found a half empty vodka bottle in one of our bedroom drawers, and my AW said (passionately and adamantly) "it is not mine"..... Well, let's see - there were four of us living in the house at the time....
My son was 1yr old, and highly unlikely to have the means, or ability, to get himself to the liquor store to both purchase and then consume a half bottle of vodka....
My daughter was 3yrs old, and although more advance than my son, the same would apply to her - I think she's off the hook too....
I had not had a drink in almost 4 years at the time, so I knew it wasn't mine....
Finally, we had an active alcoholic in the house (my AW), who was drunk pretty much every day, and typically with vodka.... But she would swear her life on the fact that it "wasn't mine", lol
I think this level of insanity underlines how much we need Al-Anon and/or a recovery program of our own, in order to deal with this stuff.... without it, we start believing some of the crud, and start thinking that we are the crazy & insane ones....
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
You really don't like his drinking. It brings up many issues for you. That much is clear. For that reason alone he would hide it. Likely, he also has some issues of his own regarding drinking and being ashamed of it. I know you aren't sure if he's a full blown alcoholic or not but for Alanon, I guess that's not the real issue.
You don't have to understand why he enjoys drinking alone. You don't have to understand the urge to hide it. To truly truly understand insanity would be to experience it and you don't want any more of that do you? All you have to do is either accept it or not. Step 1: You are powerless over his drinking. You know this.
You want to be able to control his drinking and are hypersensitive to all the issues surrounding it because you want to feel safe and want predictability. It's understandable. You can change and you are the one to give yourself permission. It would seem the reason you feel you have to get permission to change is because the fears and the loss of control surrounding his drinking are so much for you that it's really difficult for you to confront and overcome. But you are working on it and that is progress right?
The anger about the lying, it's still (not detaching) detachment and taking it personally that's my take as far as my own situation. Oh and the almighty control issue, because I never asked a question one time I asked over and over again as if I was going to get a different answer. LOL .. I was in the interogater and he was the criminal and by golly we were going to get to the truth because he was going to have to face the truth!!! I think the reality was looking back even if he had told me the truth I couldn't have handled it. I was totally trying to control the situation and force him to see the errors of his way. Because I'm so perfect, .. NOT!! :) I was very busy rationalizing with an irrational issue and I wasn't winning, I'm soooo the queen of logic too. Mrs Spock (star trek), that's me.
In no way am I saying get over it or you aren't entitled to feel angry because they are feelings they aren't right or wrong, they just are. Living with an A spouse IS stressful we do the best we can in any given moment with the tools we have in that split second. Anger is an appropriate response when you are lied to, just don't live there. It adds to the hurt that is already there from the inital lie. Be easy on yourself because it is a process.
My question to you is do you see alcoholism as a disease? I've recently shared this multiple times, I just can't wrap my brain around the cancer/diabetes issue it doesn't work for me and that's ok. I have to see it as a mental disease. I still had to come to terms with the issue that yes, alcoholism is a disease. It's not an excuse. Alcholics do have a disease they are still responsible for their actions/consequences.
I totally apologize if I misread your original post, I kind of thought about it later and thought dang it I hope she wasn't just trying to vent and I am in fixing mode today. I have lived with so much anger over my lifetime that to hear someone else struggling with that my heart goes out to you/them.
Hugs, things do look different when that veil of anger comes off I hope you find time to do some self care today you deserve it. :) P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Thanks all for your sharing. Tom, I KNOW that I'm not the crazy one and I firmly will stick by that each and every day, LOL!
My sister's husband lies about 'not smoking cigarettes' in the car. My sister found ashes in the car and found 2 books of matches. When she confronted him about it, he started screaming at him about how he didn't smoke in the car, nope not him. This is a new issue for him and she's always catching him doing something that he shouldn't be doing. One day he's lying about how much he had to drink while out with friends, then he lies about the women he met on a chat app for his phone and the phone numbers he's exchanged with her, then he lies about starting smoking again. At least all I have to deal with is lies about alcohol, my sister deals with lies coming at her from all angles. She's just as co-dependent as I am, by the way, and I'm trying to encourage her to do what I'm doing: LET IT GO, as hard as it is. Instead of looking for empty bottles, she looks for phone numbers, new secret email accounts, chat apps that were deleted from his phone, etc. Same illness, different addiction(s). Our husbands have a lot in common, though, but if you told my husband that he was anything like my brother in law, he'd tell you you're crazy. He'd say the other guy is the one with all the problems. Too bad my AH can't see what's in front of his own face.
And, Gail, yes I know there's fear attached to the anger. Fear of him getting a DUI, fear that he may go so far as to get out of control and become violent or turn into a monster like he did when we were dating, fear that he could lose his job, etc. I try to tell myself that whatever happens happens, and that God has a plan for us. He knows our hearts and he SEES the truth and the lies and indiscretions. I know that I'm not perfect, either. I have my baggage, so I have chosen to go to counseling and read books that encourage me to improve myself and become more confident, etc.
Last week I came down the sidewalk from the back of our house when I noticed my wife inside the garage putting a 12 pack of beer into the freezer inside the garage, I guess to get it cold quicker. She didn't see me but I saw her.
She drinks, I know she drinks, she knows I know she drinks, but she never drinks in front of me, her choice. I have never once over the years (20) confronted or said one word to her about her drinking. My choice. I've stated on MIP in the past that a member in my home group told me early on that was probably the "only" thing I did right before arriving in the rooms of this program.
Now back to me seeing her in the garage. I didn't have to decide what I was going to do. I could have asked "What are you doing?" I didn't even have to think. I knew. The question had to "zip" through my head. "How important is it?"......I didn't react. When she finished her task, turned and went upstairs never seeing me. I got in my car and proceeded to my Tuesday Al-Anon meeting. She was doing what she is going to do, and I did what I felt was the right thing for me to do.....for me.
HUGS, RLC
-- Edited by RLC on Wednesday 31st of August 2011 12:14:39 PM
-- Edited by RLC on Wednesday 31st of August 2011 12:17:26 PM
And, Gail, yes I know there's fear attached to the anger. Fear of him getting a DUI, fear that he may go so far as to get out of control and become violent or turn into a monster like he did when we were dating, fear that he could lose his job, etc. I try to tell myself that whatever happens happens, and that God has a plan for us. He knows our hearts and he SEES the truth and the lies and indiscretions. I know that I'm not perfect, either. I have my baggage, so I have chosen to go to counseling and read books that encourage me to improve myself and become more confident, etc.
All the things that you feared, I feared as well. The 2 DUI's, the job loss and the violence did not manifest until he was well into his disease. All the above-mentioned fears happened over the last 3 years. He has drunk since he was a teen; he is now 60 and does have a medical condition due to his alcoholism.
Every alcoholic has his/her own bottom. My ex believes he hit his bottome just this year. He has 90+ days of sobriety, attending AA meetings daily, going to outpatient treatment and is quite scared of ever relapsing because he knows the consequences.
We both take it one day at a time. Sounds so trite, I know. But it's the wisest approach to take.
My fears to become reality. But we lived through it; it appears that they had to be in order for him to reach his bottom. Don't know. Time will tell.
I'm glad to read that you are taking steps to build yourself up. You're worth the effort.
I do hope that your husband's bottom doesn't come close to what my ex had to endure.
Take good care, Gail
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Pushka, I didn't think you were in any mode other than helpful. I missed your second post earlier, not sure how. Anyway, I get where you're coming from. As for whether I see alcoholism as a disease: well, for some reason that's a tough one for me. I see it as a mental issue where someone takes a habit and lets the habit take control of them. I'm not sure I see it as a disease like a physical disease such as a blood disorder or something. I think my AH saw his parents drink themselves into a stupor most nights and that it was normal to him to see his mom passed out at the kitchen table. He didn't know that it WASN'T normal so he started drinking at a very young age because it's all he knew. It was what was familiar to him.
I, on the other hand, grew up with a dad who was a passive drinker. He would have a few drinks in the evening after work but he wasn't passed out drunk in front of us. He didn't get verbally abusive until I was in college and that's when all heck broke loose and I would say to myself, "I will not turn out like this man. Alcohol has done this to him." But, really what had done 'this' to him was not just alcohol, it was the pain he was in from his divorce, it was the fact that he lost his parents in a freak pedestrian accident, it was the stress of life. All those things compiled together turned my dad into a bar fly to the point that he blacked out at the bar about 8 years ago and smacked his head on the floor. Still didn't keep him from drinking like that in the future. My dad finally quit drinking back in January due to complications from an interaction with medication for his paralysis(spinal cord injury). Anyway, he wouldn't call himself an alcoholic, though, but my mother does and she tried to convince me that it was my dad's drinking that messed up their marriage. Now, as an adult, I can see that my dad wasn't the demise to their marriage: it was both their faults and still didn't give my mother the right to cheat on my dad. But, it takes perspective and years of contemplation to get to the point where you can look at stuff like this logically without tossing around blame.
So, I come into my marriage with my own perceptions and misperceptions about alcohol and my AH comes into our marriage with the same. And, now here we are 16 years later and still on the merry go round.
All say is some how seeing it as a disease helped me a lot and it's just food for fodder kind of a deal, you know take what you like and just think about it. You've gotten such great esh on this subject it's a great topic! Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
ONe of the hairs that broke on my camels back.. one of many... was when I was checking up on my husband and he didn't know I was checking up. Now point number one ... is that not lying... in my book.. withholding the truth is lying.. I tried to get my head around that, I am checking up on him secretly (AKA lying) in order to catch him out lying and then I get on my high horse (not camel) and tell him off for lying... uuuuummmmmm .... anyway....
I checked on him and he had smoked pot. AS ya do. I confronted him and he said he hadn't. I got furious. I said well then we better call the police because someone is sneaking into our house, going to your pot drawer, using your pipe and gear moving it all around, and then leaving!!!! I screamed this of course. Proceeded to tell him that we had better look around the house and see if that person drank all the milk as well. If you are not lying to me.. and of course you are not lying, you tell me you are not lying... then the police need to be involved with this stalker we have.
Well... I stormed out of the room. He got furious that I had been in his stuff. He felt violated that I had been checking up on him. AT no point did he confess to the lie, he maintained at all times that he had not smoked.
Yes, Linda, I totally understand the craziness, LOL! My AH has told me that he felt violated that I went into his stuff in the office. Umm, when we moved into this house I figured the office was for both of us since I don't have an office and all the bills and filing cabinets were in there. But, once he found out I was snooping, it became HIS office not THE office. All of a sudden there were boundaries that didn't exist before. I had to laugh about your tantrum because I could see myself doing the same thing, LOL. As a matter of fact, I think I may have!
Yeah I read it and giggle too.... especially when I remember the look on his face... totally rabbit in the headlights... sounded like Bart Simpson.. "I didn't do it, what happened?" I also get sad when I read it back, becasue it is so much craziness that happens.... its sad and funny???!!!???
