The material presented
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to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
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For years I used to needle my husband <who had quit drinking, but who had also quit going to meetings> that he seemed 'fake.' Don't get me wrong, he's a great person, and he wasn't mistreating me or anything, but there was something I couldn't quite put my finger on. I'm the type of person who constantly second-guesses myself, so sometimes I would think I must have been just looking for something to complain about, and that I was imagining the tinge of fakeness. But the feeling persisted.
So I'm wondering if a lack of genuineness can go along with alcoholism, if the person is technically sober for many years, but hasn't continued with the program? I think what I'm only very recently beginning to understand.. thanks to this board, and also thanks to my husband recently opening up to me more.. is that alcoholic behaviors.. even without actual drinking.. persist if the alcoholic is 'going it alone.' But I wasn't sure if the 'fake' feeling I was getting could also be part of it, or if I was just being hyper-sensitive and imagining things. I am very grateful for the insights people share here.
Alanon has helped me remember to trust my instincts and yet not act on them. It takes the focus off of what my A may or may not be doing, what he should or shouldn't be doing, if he may or may not drink. All of that is 110% on him. The only thing I have to know is first off I'm not alone, second off I'm not crazy (although I can have crazy behavior), third I always have choices, emotions, reactions (I prefer action .. lol) I still have choices. I have taken my power back.
My AH is a dry drunk, and he behaves at times as if he is still drinking or coping as I choose now to see it. It has nothing to do with me and it's all on him. If I continue to react in my past ways it is not going to change who he is, it is not going to fix his issues, it's not going to make him see what he does is not productive. Those are all insights he needs to arrive on his own.
Alanon took the total focus off of him and put it back on me. I always joke I spent a LOT of money on therapy to be reminded in alanon what I already knew I needed to do. It has been a God send for the grounding alone. The support and acceptance I have found here reminds me that I am humbled in the amount of resources available if I only ask for the help I need. It is up to me.
Hugs again, sending you love and support P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Thank you so much, Pushka. I never have gone to an al-anon meeting, though I now realize I should have started going 18 years ago. I have seen a lot of comments similar to what you said about 'putting the focus on me.' Did you find that really hard to do at first? I don't mean that I'm this wonderfully unselfish person or anything like that, but that I get this trigger-reflex of guilt about focusing on me instead of him. Thank you again for your kindness and wisdom. I'm in a place where I know I have a lot to learn.
Unless a person with addiction works recovery that teaches them to replace old behaviors with new healthy ones then the old addictive behaviors continue. It is a life long disease that requires a life long recovery program not only for the person who is an alcholic but for you too. We get addicted to the addict, the chaos, drama etc. If you haven't already done so pls get yourself to Alanon and start your recovery. Blessings
AnnieMar, I can only say what has happened for me, over the last year of being on this board and in and out of alanon face to face meetings. The meetings are where the "stuff" is at, if you will. This board is great, but the f2f meetings are where you actually get to HEAR the words and feel the support. You get phone numbers of local people you can call and talk to. You find a sponsor and you work the steps for you.
Yes, for me, its been very hard to LOOK at myself over this last year. Now that I am doing it a tiny bit at a time, I am feeling so much better. Its hard because it hurts. there is a lot of bad stuff that happened to me as a child that I have held onto for so long. And it hurts to feel that stuff. That is why we focus on others, so we don't have to feel our own pain. In alanon, those that come before us, love us until we learn to love ourselves. Then they keep loving us. You will find that you are not unique. Everyone has had to live in crazy situations.
We are just as addicted to the chaos of living with an addict/alcoholic/dry drunk, as they are to their substances/and ism's. We are all unhealthy in our minds, before we get into this spiritual program that alanon shares with us. There are several books that have helped me along my way. Getting Them Sober is one, One Day at a Time in Alanon is another and COurage to Change is a third. I found all of them on Amazon. You can get them cheap there. You can go to meetings and borrow them for a week too. It is so helpful to read and focus on the passage and write about it (for me). I call my alanon friend (whom I am going to ask to sponsor me) and we talk about things. She helps me see that I am doing a good job. That contact is so important. I hope you try some meetings for you. Take care of you! HUGS! Keep coming, it works when you work it and you are worth it!
__________________
-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
Thank you so much, Pushka. I never have gone to an al-anon meeting, though I now realize I should have started going 18 years ago. I have seen a lot of comments similar to what you said about 'putting the focus on me.' Did you find that really hard to do at first? I don't mean that I'm this wonderfully unselfish person or anything like that, but that I get this trigger-reflex of guilt about focusing on me instead of him. Thank you again for your kindness and wisdom. I'm in a place where I know I have a lot to learn.
Hi AnnieMar,
I was married to an alcoholic for 36 years before I attended an Al-Anon meeting. Better late than never
I found it extremely difficult to put the focus on me. It took me several years to get comfortable with it, and even now, I sometimes wonder where the line is. I began to get more comfy with focusing on me when I began to realize that I had no power over him and began to believe that he had a HP too that is there for him when he opens up to it.
I have a lot of insane years to reflect upon. My past experiences shows me quite clearly that placing the focus on me is the only sane thing to do. When I treat myself well, others benefit too. I notice that a lot lately.
Also, what helped me take the focus off him was when the counselor I was seeing told me that I focused on him so that I didn't have to face what I needed to do. Boy, did that strike a irritating cord in me at the time. But he was so right! I'm glad he said that to me for it got me on the right track.
I can't say enough about how meetings help me. It's only been close to 5 months of attendance. I haven't even begun the steps, really. But I notice a significant difference in me. Al-Anon reinforces what my counselor told me for so many years. It took a group of people who had similar experiences to help me on a path of recovery.
Keep on keeping on! We are all a work in progress.
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Hugs annie, lol yes it was more shocking than anything. All of a sudden I had issues, when did that happen?? Lol? I wasn't the one who was being arrested, I wasn't the one lying. How could I possibly have issues? hmm how indeed.
When I really started listening and truly trying the concepts, slogans and so on. Things in my life have started changing. I an so not close to being done never will be, I'm cluttered in my home and I'm starting to face that animal. It's not easy for me to admit how out of control I allowed myself to become.
Long answer to a short question, yes it was difficult, I have decided I'm worth it. In doing so my life had become more manageable and I'm starting to like myself. Not taking care of me was a self induced punishment after all why would up be worth an hour or two out of the week. well of course I am and you are too. :) p
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
For years I used to needle my husband <who had quit drinking, but who had also quit going to meetings> that he seemed 'fake.' Don't get me wrong, he's a great person, and he wasn't mistreating me or anything, but there was something I couldn't quite put my finger on. I'm the type of person who constantly second-guesses myself, so sometimes I would think I must have been just looking for something to complain about, and that I was imagining the tinge of fakeness. But the feeling persisted.
So I'm wondering if a lack of genuineness can go along with alcoholism, if the person is technically sober for many years, but hasn't continued with the program? I think what I'm only very recently beginning to understand.. thanks to this board, and also thanks to my husband recently opening up to me more.. is that alcoholic behaviors.. even without actual drinking.. persist if the alcoholic is 'going it alone.' But I wasn't sure if the 'fake' feeling I was getting could also be part of it, or if I was just being hyper-sensitive and imagining things. I am very grateful for the insights people share here.
This might be a little bit related to my recent post about denial. It bothers me when people seem fake, or overly positive and cheerful. I was wondering if it could be partly the result of having been raised by alcoholics, or in some other kind of dysfunctional family. I have been thinking a lot about this. There are people who seem to be perfect and never complain, and to me there is a dimension missing. Then there is the opposite type -- they are always always miserable and complaining (I can get like that sometimes).
So these two extremes -- the pollyanna and the grouch -- might both result from being ACOA or co-dependant and stifling feelings.
Since I am an ACOA and an ACOI (adult child of insane people), I have some feelings I don't want to feel. We all probably have that, to different degrees. The person with a volcano inside can either become an addict to dull the feelings, or they can become fakely cheerful or a chronic miserable complainer.
Aloha Annie...what is important "for me" when reading this post and the responses which support this story/joke is that my job is me...only.
The story is about an Al-Anon member who was retuning home from a meeting and got broad sided at an intersection. Their car was totalled and the even fatal and just before they died the life of their alcoholic flashed before their eyes.
I learned thru more recovery work that God didn't give me life with a list of people I was supposed to live life for rather than my own. When I accepted that I was as addicted to managing other people lives as if I knew how to manage my own and a failure at I quit the job and took up professional grade detaching.
I don't like others having control over my life and even more if I realize that it is I who give them the control and actively participate in it.
I need to understand what being genuine is and to check that awareness often by looking in the mirror and asking for feedback from others in recovery.
I feel this way often. My A is dry, but not in program anymore. He goes back and forth between program and not lately. He is not the same person he used to be when he was in recovery. I miss that person a great deal. He is trying to be that person still, but it isn't working very well from my perspective.
When it isn't working well, he has the thougth processes of when he was drinking. My program is what carries me through those times as well as edifying my life in every other way including work. I was taught to put the focus on me instead of my A which was amazing.
I had such a hard time at first putting the focus on me. I am ACOA and being controlling from my childhood was mixed in with the process making things even harder. The first time I was successful at putting the focus on me I was hooked. It took me months of working on my thinking consistently to be able to be successful even once. I care for myself much better than I ever have now.
There aren't many situaitons with my A that I can't handle anymore. Some take more patience and reading than others but I am doing so much better.
It is all due to applying the Al-anon program to my life.
I had to begin to put the focus on me and my life when I walked into the rooms of Alanon because I was in such pain trying to help my loved one with theirs. For me, it wasnt difficult because I had enough. I was so done that I was willing to do whatever my face to face Alanon sponsor asked me to do, no questions asked. Faithfully, I worked with her until it became natural to focus on what I wanted and needed on a daily basis. I just had no clue.
You indicated that you have not been to a face to face alanon meeting. It was the best decision I have ever made in my life. I do so hope you will consider going. There are online meetings here but there is no true substitution for what you learn in the face to rooms of Alanon.
Thank you so much, everybody. I have to confess that I think part of my resistance to going to Al-Anon is a feeling that 'I don't have it so bad, compared to other people.' Can you tell I was raised Catholic? lol.. But thanks to all of you, I'm starting to understand that Al-anon is more about looking at what we're doing that is enabling the problem on some level, rather than a refuge for people who are being abused. All of your replies, book recommendations, experiences, and info about Al-anon were really helpful and enlightening for me. I feel really humbled by the way people take the time to help others.
And Clep, what you said about missing the person who was in recovery really struck a chord with me. Not that my husband was really doing anything wrong..that I knew of.. but that I felt he wasn't quite 'him,' if that makes sense.
Jerry, what you said about the mirror also rings true for me. I must have been being a bit fake myself all these years, by just squelching the feeling that something wasn't intrinsically right between us. It's really weird that I never considered the possibility that on some level the fact that my husband was sober but not doing the program might have been at the root of some.. though certainly not all.. of my unease.
Pushka, when you said 'cluttered,' I really resonated with that. Not that I'm blaming my husband for all of my cluttered feeling, but it makes me wonder if on some unconscious level part of the reason I'd been in a bit of a hopeless muddle was because I knew things were out of control..because I guess my husband would qualify as a dry drunk maybe?
Dear AnnieMar, while reading your thread a few questions came to mind.
What, exactly do you mean when you say fake?
What was his personality like before he began drinking alcoholically?What was he like when he WAS drinking?
Did he ever not seem fake?
Hi, Otie..
I met my husband when he was drinking alcoholically, and he quit drinking about 2 years after we met. I think what I mean by 'fake' is that after he quit drinking, I would get the sense that he was watching himself from the outside. For example, when he came up to hug me or something, it would feel sort of not spontaneous. This may well be something that was all in my head, or that I was nit-picking about, or like you said, is just a part of his natural personality. I'm just sort of a ball of confusion right now, as you can probably tell.
No Annie I couldn't tell that you were raised Catholic, but I could tell that you have been effected by the same disease that has effected us all. You have received ES&H (experience strength and hope) from many members who understand you more than you can understand, they are giving back to you what the program has given them. We are all different with a different set of problems, yet we are all the same because we have been effected by someone else's drinking. The scars left from this disease never heel if left untreated. Al-Anon f2f meetings was my ticket to start my healing (recovery)......a simple program for complicated people. Consider attending meetings.....there will be a chair waiting for you.
I have struggled with some of the same feelings when I first started going to Alanon meetings - "I don't have it so bad, compared to these other people." I found I continued to tell myself that even when people at the table told stories that were nearly IDENTICAL to stories from my family. I cried with them and felt compassion for them, but continued to tell myself - "Oh, I don't belong here. I don't have it that bad." I even thought I should quit going to the meetings and I felt so uncomfortable!
For me, what I realized was that I have been denying the dysfunction in my family, denying its impacts on me, and downplaying all of it while making my feelings and hurts less important than anyone else's. I took that from my growing up and played it out in my relationships as an adult. When I realized that, I had a real breakthrough.
My life has been wonderful, it could definitely be so much worse, I am thankful. At the same time, I need to recognize the pain I felt from my family's issues (alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness, etc), to recognize my coping strategies that no longer serve me, and to grieve those things. I need to make my own feelings important and to not set myself apart as different from these other "messed up" people while denying my own "messed-up-ness." I gained so much understanding then, released so much long-held pain, and felt a closeness to my group that I really needed. Not a single person there would have ever told me I didn't belong, or that they didn't want me - those were old messages from times in my family long ago, and they don't serve me anymore. Plus, I'm doing this for me.
Just food for thought. I'd encourage you to go and keep trying. I think really working through Alanon can help all of us strip away the fakeness (on both sides) that keeps addictions going. At first that can feel terrible and then I've found it starts to feel amazing.
Thank you so much, Doozy. I could really relate to your post. My mom, who passed away last year, was an alcoholic, but she was always loving and kind, never abusive or anything. But what you said triggered a memory I had when I was young of thinking to myself, 'Mom seems different in the evenings sometimes.' But I feel like I was lucky and blessed. There are so many horror stories out there, that I guess I've been thinking that it would be like making a mountain out of molehill to go to Al-anon. But you have all got me really thinking that I need to at least start with reading some of the recommended books, and then bite the bullet and go to a meeting.
