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OK so here we are again. A is so upset at my distance and changed mode that of course now she will go for professional help, at least with a CASAC/LCSW. Do you know how many times we have been at this point? Do you know how many times I believed her? I have no faith in her to accomplish dealing with her multiple addictions. And I find that one of the worst elements is her lying. I have developed zero tolerance for lying at this point. It doesn't even matter what the topic is. I can't have an open, honest relationship with a liar. So I guess I want to say LOL. I have no expectations for her, but I am getting stronger and better. I can't grow close to her under these circumstances but I can grow in spite of her. Thanks to all of you who respond to me and are helping me. God bless! Lyne
I think lying is just part and parcel with the disease of alcoholism. There is a saying in the face to face rooms of Alanon, expectations are premeditated resentments. Every time I would uncover a lie, I would have that AHA moment and confront my loved one, they would tell a lie even when the truth would serve them better. Ironic isn't it.
Attending the face to face meetings of alanon gave me a different perspective. When I finally got that lying was in their best interest, then I was able to depersonalize lying. They weren't doing it to me, they were just doing it. That shift in my perspective was a light bulb moment in that I was able to release some of my expectations little by little. In that regard I was able to turn my focus on myself and my recovery, not what the AH was doing or not doing in their recovery.
I do so thank you for your post this evening. It brought me back to the days when I was new in the program and feeling exactly as you did when I came in.
Something I had to stop doing was asking questions that I already knew the answer to, because why set my AH up to "get caught AGAIN" in a lie he just can't help except tell. It's not something he does to me, I set the expectation (just like Tommy said) that I keep expecting the truth and the reality is he can't give me the truth. As I stopped and realized I set him up to be the "liar" and that's really not fair on my part. He fit the role so well though and it fit the payout I was looking for because as long as he's the liar then I get to be the victim of circumstances. It made life so much easier on me when I stopped expecting him to give me something he just can't give. I also found solace in knowing .. it wasn't just me he was lying to, he lied to counselors, he lied to his lawyer, he lied to the police, he lied to his mother, his co workers and the list goes on. It gave me peace to know it wasn't personal, it didn't matte who was standing in front of him his lying was all about deflection.
Hugs and thanks for the share, I needed the reminder as to why my A tells some of the tales he weaves and that it's the illness and not an attack on me. :) Hugs again and continue onward and upward in your program :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Lyne, I also remember when I came to the crossroads that you are now approaching. That is when I stopped my own denial about my hubby. I believed him. I set him up on a pedestal. I denied that there was something wrong. But then the lies got so bad that it broke through my own denial about it. And I totally lost respect for him. I realized that he was lying to everyone because he set me up between his lies and his sentencing officer for his DUI. I told the truth and the sentencing officer was totally miffed...and wanted to throw the book at him. But that helped to tear down my denial and increase my lack of respect for my hubby. I didn't want to not believe him. It hurt me to look at him and know that I couldn't believe anything because so much of what he said was baloney. Those were days that I cried a lot. Pulling him off his pedestal hurt me a lot.
It has been 11 years since those times. I know now that it doesn't matter to me what he says. I don't base anything on it. I have grown used to verifying for myself. He has been sober (sort of, except for his pain meds for cancer treatment) and I don't know that he is lying to me, but I don't even consider it personal any more. If he lies, it is all on him. None of it is about me. None of it is my problem. I would be sad for him, but it would be all his to own.
Yes, you can grow in spite of her. Take from her the best parts of the relationship and leave the rest. It is not personal.
Lying was so hard for me to deal with. There were always lies.
It took me forever to stop believing words and start looking at actions instead. The words were always the same ... "I'm sorry, I won't drink tomorrow." I have no doubt he was sincere when he said the words. I even think he was promising himself that he wouldn't drink - he didn't want to drink, but it was out of his control to stop. When tomorrow got there, he just couldn't keep the promise. The disease won out. He wasn't telling me he wouldn't drink and then drinking to hurt me. He couldn't even keep the promise to himself not to drink. And then he'd be ashamed and remorseful, and the cycle would start over. I got sucked in for years and years. I took it personally and came unglued when I was lied to.
But as it's already been said, the addict wasn't lying to me. I wasn't special. He was just trying desperately to keep his problem hidden, when hiding it is really pretty impossible. It's hard not to take it personally, I know. I had to tell myself "it's not about you" over and over and over. His drinking ISN'T about me. It's never been about me.
In the program, I too learned not to ask questions when I know the answer. Asking the question sets me up to be lied to, and perpetuates my feelings of outrage, superiority, and victimization. I was tired of living like that. My sponsor says that active alcoholism is like a movie where the picture and the voices don't match. As if you had a soundtrack from one movie and a picture from some other movie. You go crazy trying to figure out what's going on. It helps to turn off the volume (the words) and just watch the picture. You don't need words to tell you what's going on. When you watch the picture, you know - and asking for the sound when you know the sound won't match is just asking for crazy.
Aloha Lyne I like that last statement "....I can grow inspite of her" cause you can. I know you can cause I did also and so did my sponsor and a great number of guy members in the program. I also like the very last statement you made "God Bless". When you put in the God factor and the program an alcoholic and/or addict can do absolutely miraculous recovery. Got her and you in my prayers. "God can and will if He is sought". (((((hugs)))))
Lies are part of addiction, it took me a long time to understand that the lies were not 'for me' - they were part of the fear that underlies Alcoholism-a protective mechanism if you like. I know my A really believes his lies. I of course do not - I only believe what I see not what I hear.
To have a 'trusting' relationship under those circumstances required a shift in my perspective and that is not easy. It helps if I understand everybody lies and it is nearly always to hide a 'shame' or to avoid confrontation or maybe 'hurt'.
Until I found Al-Anon I would lie about my home situation due to shame, and to pretend I was not being 'eaten away' inside. In this fellowship I have learnt not to do that and I can now live in an honest relationship with my HP, my friends in Al-Anon and my sponsor.
It does get easier once you can de-personalise the lies...
Dear Lyne, please excuse this little episode of "cross talking", but I just learned a new tool from Pushka due to this thread of yours.
Pushka used the word "DEFLECTING" She said that they are not lying---they're defelecting.
I am going to start using that word today! When my son begins his "truth enhancements", I will say to myself that he is deflecting again. This depersonalizes it for me by reminding me that he is doing it for his own self defense---not against me personally.
Wow, it is not yet 8am and I have already learned something really useful. Thanks Lyne and Pushka!!
I certainly understand your frustration with lying. I lived with lying for the most of my 36-year marraige.
My ex-AH just got out of his 3rd inpatient rehab. He is 60. For the first time, he openly admitted that he lied all those years, especially to me. I corrected him: he lied especially to himself.
I've been attending meetings and readling Al-Anon literature for the past 5 months (I was unwillingly to attend before this, unfortunately.). Through the literature and listening to others at meetings is how I began to realize his lies were about "me." They were about protecting him - again, nothing to do with me. My frustration and pain was caused by my false belief that he lied to me because he didn't value me or our relationship.
It's comforting to read that you can grow regardless what she chooses to do. You certainly can. I find that my growth not only helps me, but it has helped the ex-AH and anyone I come into contact with. This includes all.
Keep on working your program! Thanks fo sharing a
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Every time I would uncover a lie, I would have that AHA moment and confront my loved one, they would tell a lie even when the truth would serve them better. Ironic isn't it.
Attending the face to face meetings of alanon gave me a different perspective. When I finally got that lying was in their best interest, then I was able to depersonalize lying. They weren't doing it to me, they were just doing it. That shift in my perspective was a light bulb moment in that I was able to release some of my expectations little by little. In that regard I was able to turn my focus on myself and my recovery, not what the AH was doing or not doing in their recovery.
Thank you for sharing that. We have had a LOT of issues with lying and I unfortunately take it VERY personally...but yet I still put up with it.
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~Kat
Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. ~Voltaire
