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Hi everyone, I just want to give you a little background about my situation, then I have a very important question. and I would ike to apologize for making this so long.
My husband has a drinking problem. I am still not sure if he is an alcoholic because the difference between an abuser and A are still not clear to me. We have been together 17 years, and we have two girls age 15 and 7. Like most everyone and every message I have read, I have tried everything humanly possible to get him to stop, including kicking him out of the house two years ago when things got really bad and he got mugged and called me at 4 AM telling me they took his car keys and it was my fault because we had had an arguement that night. I was so tired of his behavior at that point that I waited until 10AM, and drove an hour to where he was to help him file the police report and take the spare car key. He was so drunk when he called police that they never filed a report cbecause they couldn't understand what he was saying. He kept changing his story and they wanted to press charges but didn;t because I was there. It was the most embarrassing thing that had ever happened to me and I asked him to leave the house. He was gone for one week, and promised to change. For the next 8 months, he did change...I thought. He would only have one or two beers on the weekends. At that time, I thought that was OK because I really still did not understand he had not changed at all and it was only a matter of time before he started to drink everyday.
He knows he has a problem. He has said to me, I know I have a problem and I can fix it. I have tried to get him to go to AA, but he does not want to go and says he can do it himself. He will try to control himself and it will work for about two weeks and then he just starts drinking everyday again. His drink of choice is beer, and when he has his really bad weeks, he drinks about 15 beers per night, 6 days a week. He tells me he was always this way and it never bothered me. But I do not remember that. Now I think I was too young, naive, and stupid to have ever realized drinking was the real problem. My father also drank heavily when I was a little girl, and it took for him to break our glass dining room table when I was 10 years old for my mother to finally kick him out of the house for good. So I grew up around people drinking ALL the time...every party, every weekend, every house we went to. It was nornnal. I met my DH when I was 13 and got pregnant when I was 15 and we have been together ever since. I suppose it was very easy for a 15 year old girl to think drinking was normal.
So anyway, my and DH relationship is so bad. I have asked him to leave so many times because we argue constantly. Two years ago, I thought that his lack of participation in family and school activities, were all due to him being depressed (which he also does not want to go to help for because he says therapists are for crazy people who cannto handle their problems). When I try to ask or tellhim somehting it turns into a huge arguement, then he cuts me off and says I should not be trying to have a conversation with him when he is drinking. I am never able to talk to him thhen, since he drinks EVERYDAY. he always says he is tired, or does not like the activities we do (softball, bowling, movies, etc.) I have felt like a single mother for the past few years because I am doing it all myself. I just realized a few months ago, when a good friend of mine openend my eyes and told me the REASON he does not do these things, is because of the beer. He does not go out because HE WANTS TO BE HOME WITH HIS BEER.
two years ago I started seeing a therapist ebecause I started thinking maybe I was the problem. She taught me so many things that I used and things started getting better I thought so I stopped going after only a year. Things are really bad now, my daughter is 15 and she is noticing and saying so many more things than she used to. She is a happy, brilliant girl, who does not let the world bother her. She is carefree has a great group of friends, and brushes things off easily. She will never go to alanon if I suggested it. She doesn't mention it, but I know she copes with her music, her friends, and her school work. My 7 year old complains that Daddy does not play with her or take her anywhere. It breaks my heart that I am the only one doing anything. Please don't get me wrong. When he is not drinking he is GREAT. He will do whatever I ask, take the girls where ever they want, play with them, help around the house, but these instances are so rare that they are hard to appreciate.
I want to separate him from the disease, as detachment states, but it is SO hard. It's so hard for me to walk away when I sense an arguement coming on. It is SO hard for me to get distracted and dig beneath the alcohol in order to see teh real person I married. The last time I was truly happy was in 2004 after my daughter was born. Life was great, but now it is a disaster. I do feel out of control and like I have been reading, I have jsut VERY recently realized that everything I have been doing for the past two years revolves around him and his habiit. I have lost friends, stopped doing the things I like, and completely lost myself in this mess. I am depressed and going to see a therapist again in two weeks. I also went to my first al anon meeting last night. If someone asked me what would make me happy, I would have no idea what to tell them, because I don't even know what I like to do anymore. I am afraid for my children that this is what they are learning and will end up just like me.
My question is about detachment. How do you detach yourself from the disease without detaching yourself from the person. Things have gotten so bad between us that I do not know if this is possible. I do love him despite all the things he has done (never physical violence) but he has called me crazy and stupid when he is drunk). Do I walk away and distract myself when he is drinking even if he is not drunk? I mean, the minute he picks up his beer, is that a signal for me to find something else to do? or is it ok for me to hang around. if he is being civil and nice. What about the few times we go out together with friends. All his friends drink, do I stay home and not participate? or go with him even though I know he will have a drink or two? This is SO CONFUSING! What about my girls. How do I deal with that aspect....like when he gets drunk at home? Send them to bed early? Ican understand chaning what I do, but is it fair to have to change everything they do as well? We have never had an incident between him and the girls. Please share. thank you. Where can I get more info on detachment?
-- Edited by odalis on Saturday 9th of July 2011 10:58:23 AM
Welcome and hugs, it is a difficult situation to be in, to love someone who is suffering from addiction, because it's not something that will just go away. I encourage you to find an alanon meeting in your area and go, they tell members of AA to go 90 meetings in 90 days. I think the same applies to alanon. It has been a God send to me in my own situation of keeping my sanity in an insane situation.
You are not crazy, you may have crazy behavior, however there is hope to learn tool to help you deal with your own emotions in the midst of crisis. The 3 c's You did not cause it, you cannot control it, and you will not cure it. So important to understand how powerless you really are over the issue of addiction it is not our responsibility to fix the addict.
Sometimes you may start off detached from the person (in anger or just numb) and that's totally ok. It's more important to just detach. I do believe at some point you have to make a circle to allowing them to be who they are and making a life for yourself. There is a wealth of information on the boards with posts that are already there and then just the wisdom and love of all of the people who are on the boards is a huge blessing. I think it's important to recognize with kids that we are teaching them what is acceptable and what is not. Without bad mouthing the addict I also think it's important to keep it simple AND be honest. You kids are older than mine. I can tell you growing up around that age when it came to my s/father I was out of the house far more than I was in it because I did not want to deal with him. My memories of my mother is/was someone who is unstable and can't deal with her life. I'm working on some issues to say the least. The chances of me ever really trusting her are slim to none. She wasn't even the alcoholic. I don't want that for my relationship with my own kids. Again that is me talking from my perception of my story. It is a house of dysfunction when our addict is acting out in his disease and we are acting out in our own behavior. I'm currently reading and doing the exercises this time around for Codependent No More, M. Beattie and that has been my life saver. There are other really great books as well that other people on the boards talk about my next one is Getting them sober. I keep hearing that title thinking I need to do that big time. One book at a time .. lol.
I don't know how I feel about the whole drinking in the house stuff because he just gets so out of control falling down kind of thing, I don't like the person my AH becomes. I take the stance if that's what he wants to do I want him out of the house. You have to find what works for you. I have no guarantee he's not drinking by lying and hiding it. He has in the past, and it is part of the disease. I don't have the luxury to consume myself with the idea he might be, I need my head to be on straight for myself and my kids. So that's where I've chosen to put my boundaries down for myself. I recognize though there are consequences with those boundaries we are dealing with a DUI at the moment, and it's finally wrapping up. I do not accept responsibility for the DUI that is ALL my AH. He made a choice and HE had consequences for his own actions. He is not an active drinker at the moment (that I am aware of) and he is also not participating in any kind of recovery. Yes I'm disappointed, that again is his choice. He may find out with the courts that he could be done with some of his court stuff instead of having to start when he starts back driving. I don't know.
In coming to alanon, I am a better person in general as I like who I am becoming. I'm so much more relaxed, I've discovered things about myself I have forgotten. I'm actually pretty funny, and I like to laugh and smile. I thought my face would crack the first time I did genuinely smile and realized WOW .. it's been a while. Once at week at min, we laugh so hard I have tears running down my face and my sides hurt. When was the last time I did that? I love it!! My kids and I have spent the summer enjoying each other. In some ways my AH is more relaxed. I keep my hands to myself. I am concerned with my own behavioral issues and it keeps me from obsessing over his. (HA HA .. except in my case the DUI! LOL! I'm still better than i would have been without alanon I KNOW that! :)) I also decided what is my business and what is not, I don't track my husband anymore, however what affects us as a family IS my business like the DUI. I have let go of forcing situations to be and our household is much more peaceful. My long winded point is there is hope, there are so many wonderful people on the boards who give support and care.
You are not alone and you do not have to continue to suffer in isolation.
Hugs and keep coming back because you are so worth it!! :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Hi odalis and welcome! I'm so glad you found this place, it has been a lifesaver for me. As far as the difference between an alcoholic and an alcohol abuser, I don't think it really matters. Your husband's drinking is causing you problems and that's the main thing. You said ¨...everything I have been doing for the past two years revolves around him and his habiit.¨ That's what alanon is for, to help you deal with those problems by taking the focus off him and putting it on you, taking care of yourself (and children) first. Yep, we've all tried everything we could think of to help our problem drinkers-none of it worked, it never will. They have to make the decision and find help for themselves. But we, and you, can help ourselves - this board and alanon are great places to start. Detachment is hard (for me) to describe and it was hard to learn. But like most things, it gets easier with practice. I can't tell you what to do but I can tell you what works for me. That would be walking away from he when hes drunk and starts on his rambling, usually senseless talking. He was good at starting an argument over nothing. It took a long time for me to learn but I finally realized I didn't have to participate. I would just leave. Sometimes to another room, sometimes outside for a walk, sometimes to a friend's house. The key was getting away from him so I wouldn't have to hear and deal with his nonsense. Since then it's gotten easier- I tell myself it's the disease talking, not him. But I sometimes still have to leave. I'm sure others will have more ESH (experience, strenght & hope) to share with you. You are not alone, please keep coming back.
Welcome and glad you found us On your question of detachment and how you should work it is an excellent question. My story... I grew up as did my husband surrounded by addiction. My role was always that of the care taker. We moved our family away when our children were young so they wouldn't have to be subjected as we were to the daily drama and chaos that addiction brings. We never cut our families out of our lives but thought for sure if we moved we could break the cycle. But having grown up with addiction we didn't know it at that time our thinking and coping skills were already dysfunctional and they moved with us and we passed those along to our children. Our son is an addict despite our best efforts, we too did everything we could think of under the sun but we could not stop what was to be. So when I first heard "detachment" I did not get it at all. Although he's is an adult how do I detach from my child ( still living at home). I equated the word detachment with abandonment. I will say it takes practice practice practice. Your level of detahment may be different than others I think. I am not sure we all do it the same way. I tried ignoring my son when he was high ( which was more often than not ) not responding to his comments or questions etc. But that seemed cruel, he has never been abusive to us or anything he's a very gentle kid. Most arguments we had I have to truthfully admit I started because my anger was so out of control I would keep it in as long as I could then blow up. But we do learn here that we do not have to respond to every fight we are invited too. I really didn't get the concept of detachment until I learned compassion, that was something I was never taught growing up. But during an argument one day I looked in my sons eyes and saw the most incredible, undescribible pain there. And my actions clearly weren't helping that pain. I have never known an addict who wasn't depressed, or had little to no self esteem. So I learned compassion for my son and all A's frankly and learned that I could love my son unconditionally and hate and stop enabling his disease. I learned ( actually still learning ) to separate my son from his disease. I stopped taking his disease personally. I thought his actions were something he was "doing to us" when in fact it didn't have a damn thing to do with us. It was something he was doing to himself to drown out his pain. So there were certainly then times when we would sit together and watch TV even if he was high. He had managed not only to get in trouble with the law, lose all his jobs and push all his friends away I didn't want him to feel he was all alone in all this. But I was still new into the program. my husband and I are both disabled and our sons actions/addictions was literally making us sicker, the stress was making us sicker and it came to going down with the ship if we kept our son in our home or saving ourselves. That is a terrible choice to have to make but we had to get into reality and make it. So we then set boundaries such as he could not be high in our home. And he walked all over those, because we let him. We werent ready to follow thru with the consequenses. Until enough was enough He had, had some good sober time under his belt and then let it go and went back to using. And we advised him he had to leave. He had a job at the time and he found a room to rent. But as you will hear over and over this is a progressive disease, our son thought he could control it. He couldn't ( and he was on probation btw ). Ended up losing his job again, had no money for rent, food, drug testing, commuting etc. For a while hoping he would get back on track we gave him money but he lasped back into his drug use and depression stopped actively looking for a job etc. So we cut off the money which meant he could pay for the mandatory drug tests etc so his probation was broken and he was taken back into custody. Where he is now. Likely he will be there 6-9 months... not his first trip on that merry go round so we know this is not his bottom. Sorry for being so long winded I guess what I want to convey is all the things we learn here take time, practice and willingness. We didn't get here over night, our recovery doesn't happen over night. I know it is overwhelming at first... everyone talking about the tools we use, the steps, the principles etc. Just take your time and listen for a while. Things will fall into place for you in the order your HP has set forth. Blessings in your recovery
You have received some heart felt responses to your post and I'm sure you will receive more. I'm gald you found this board filled with many members who have walked in your shoes. The help, understanding and support you will receive here and at your Al-Anon meetings will give you the boost you need for your recovery. It is said "Al-Anon is a simple program....for complicated people". Remember what I mentioned in my PM to you....this program is no different than eating an elephant.....You have to do it one bite at a time. Same with the Al-Anon program.
Listen and apply what members suggest here and in your meetings.....It's what worked for them. When you are dealing with a disease that is best described as......Cunning, Baffling, And Powerful.....the only, and best thing you can do is take care of yourself first. You started doing that today. Keep coming back, you don't have to be alone anymore.
I have the same questions regarding detachment. How will I know what the "right" decision is? Do I put my foot down and say "you will NOT come back into my home if you are drinking" when he gets out of jail, or do I let him come back... learn to detach the real him from the disease? So emotionally confusing. I'm still so new to this I have that hope that he'll sober up and want to stay that way when he gets out.
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~Kat
Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. ~Voltaire
Hi there and welcome to MIP. I had a lot of the same questions and things to say when I first came to Al-anon. I hope you find some local meetings and a sponsor to help you on your journey. There is also a lot of good Al-anon literature out there like "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie and "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews and many others that can help you. Sending you love and support.
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God grant me the serenity To accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
Aloha Odalis...Detachment is an Al-Anon artform and learned over time and with practice. It takes commitment and patience and willingness to sit and listen to others who have experience getting it and doing it. I learned detachment on three levels before I "got it". First I detached with anger (painful method) the detachment with dis-interest (silent, lonely, depressing method) and then detachment with unconditional love, (method I practice now). Detachment language for me doesn't make very many "you" statements. My statements are about what I will and will not do or better still participate in not only with the alcoholic but according to my likes, dislikes and value system. In arguements detachment is recognizing that there is a possible arguement available and then not participating other than to say in a calm, soft (softest is better cause then the alcoholic has to listen closer) way..."I see", "I understand", "I get that" (I statements) "I'm going to do something else"...."cause I want to." Mean what I say don't say it mean. If I get mean it means I am participating and the alcoholic has sunk a hook into me barb and all.
Detachment for me comes with a question. "How do I want to feel about life at the moment." I like feeling calm, level, patient, comfortable and happy and then I remember what my elder sponsor taught me. "When you decide what it is that you want for yourself...do what it takes to get it." I detach...unhook all of the hooks and velcro stuff that is hanging on me, wanting to take me out and down and move on to happy stuff.
Others (who ever they are...alcoholic or not) have "stuff" which I perceive (right or wrong) that I could or might change or mess around with to make things better or just different for them whether I am asked to or not. I also was raised a "caretaker" like many Al-Anon and MIP members. However I learned, again from my elder sponsor, "...but should I?" In detachment that question usually comes out no or if there is crises or chaos going on "hell no". This caretaker enables things to get worse for him - and others - when he attaches himself to someone elses problem so I've learned to do the opposite to get the opposite consequence...Instead of attaching I detach. You're new here...what a great place to be and start. (((hugs)))
PS....in detaching you gotta learn to break some rules. Some of them you have been following for a long long time; like the rule that you just gotta do something or try something to change his, hers, their, ...problem. New Rule? I don't gotta...
-- Edited by Jerry F on Saturday 9th of July 2011 11:42:38 PM
I think detachment is hard, like all of the Al-Anon program it is essentially very simple -the problem comes from within ourselves - our own complexity and learned behaviors. I was bought up by a 'caretaker' - everything I saw and experienced as a child involved caring for others, being 'unselfish' never putting ones own needs first.
It has taken several years in Al-Anon, listening to the Strength, Hope and Experience of others and working through with my sponsor to understand my disease - that is my obsession with others and distorted thinking that I am helping when in fact I am only enabling and in the process setting myself (and others) up for misery and disillusionment. My Mother was a 'martyr' and here in latter middle age I see that is what I have become as well - thank god for this programme in allowing me to acknowledge and accept that.
I have found detachment from the A difficult - I can detach with anger/hatred that is relatively easy and perhaps fits my arrogance rather than accepting my humility - it smacks of trying to control rather than the simple acceptance of my powerlessness. it is also incredibly painful and takes me on a journey of 'self-pity' and 'self-loathing'. I have slowly learnt that this is a path that I should not tread - it is not who I am or who I want to be and certainly does not lead to serenity and fails to acknowledge the simple truth about the illness - it really is not personal and the A deserves my empathy and understanding rather than my anger and hatred.
I can detach with disinterest - that is harder as this is a person I want to engage with - who when not drinking can bring pleasure and even joy to my life. It again is a path that does not bring serenity - I may engage in activity or the company of friends - but quietly nagging away at the back of my mind is guilt and angst wondering what the A is doing or feeling bad for enjoying myself - that somehow I should not be doing this.
So far I learn what 'not to do' - by treading both of these paths I find that they do not nurture me nor lead to the serenity I seek, slowly and painfully I find that my habits of a lifetime, my learned behaviours are no longer serving me (they probably haven't for many years!). I am left with detachment with love and that is something I continue to work on and seek guidance from my HP. Do I get it right all the time - no. Am I willing to learn - yes one day at a time and just trying to do the next best thing.
It is so tempting to get involved with the next crisis - to leap in with my solution to the latest chaos but I am learning to stop - step back - disengage and think before taking any action. Slowly I learn that these crises are usually not real merely the result of delusion caused by drinking. Even if they are real - then my loving action is to understand that this is not my crisis and that I must not involve myself in that which is not my business. That does not stop me being supportive which is a different mindset to enabling.
I would love to tell you this is an easy path - it takes a lot of work and effort but above all the support of my al-anon family and my HP but when I get it right I gain peace and serenity and for now it is enough that I know I am on a journey that is right - in doing so I can maintain a detachment from the chaos whilst still caring.
I learn so much from others sharing - sometimes I learn a lot when I hear myself share as well - this is a 'life-saving' programme
