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Post Info TOPIC: When to Stop Talking


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When to Stop Talking


I am new here, so please bear with my long post.

First let me say that I am a recovering alcoholic of 25 years and have been sober now for 6. My Catholic faith is the key to my continued sobriety and it is only by the grace of God that keeps me sober, no matter how tempted I get to take a drink. I attend no AA meetings, but do have a personal counselor who is also Catholic. The Church offers many programs as well, but I maintain strictly through prayer, the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass and the reception of the Holy Eucharist as much as I am able. This is a testimony that has helped to inspire others where they feel there is no hope. When a person seeks and finds sound direction, the journey becomes much more orderly, but never easy--there are still some days that are very uncomfortable, but at least my ship is sound when the squall does happen. One cannot know where they are unless they have a valid map and remember where they have been and are aware of where they are going. Order and discipline are required in this. This is the formula for success.

As a practical and very conservative thinking Catholic, I am obliged to help anyone who is seeking the truth and can never practice indifference or compromise truth, nor will I practice any form of condoning others in their alcoholism and accept the many "excuses" that I myself used countless numbers of times in my struggle. Unfortunate for many, my techniques of absolute truth can often seem too harsh or "cut and dried" to the point that it disturbs others. I cannot and will not offer any apology for promoting truth, as this would place me in a situation of possibly being guilty of the sin of omission, or indifference. Some individuals find it rather intense and overtly sober, preachy or confined and sometime very "confidently arrogant", or what you will, but still it is the absolute truth, of which must never be compromised with the many confusing pseudo-truths abundant in the world today.

As a Catholic, I am obliged to evangelize the truths of Christ as can only be found in the Catholic Church, but these truths can be rather intense with others ( as they may subscribe to a number of errors already) since there is only one truth to be considered in the consideration of the 4 last things we all must face: Death, Purgatory, Heaven or Hell. These are serious matters of the most intense level, as once one is dead there is no more chance to obtain grace. One needs to tend to these things now, which is a wisdom in and of itself. Either one accepts truth or not, which can often make for a difficult time, but one that is absolutely necessary. Philosophical debates on what is "truth" do not save a person's soul. Only the applied conscientious effort, along with the grace of God and the holy sacraments of the Church can do this quite well enough. Still there is no guarantee, and this is what keeps the valiant and militant Christian Catholic on their toes at all times.

My present situation is with my twin brother. His drinking is causing great stress with my mother and myself and he often become extremely verbally abusive, devoid of absolute reason and many times loses physical functionality (he live alone). We are 46 years of age. As I grew up with him, I can understand why he is like he is, but as there is obvious lack of emotional maturity, proper spiritual development and an extreme lack of respect for authority, this makes the task of attempting to help him (even in a non-spiritual manner) seem literally impossible. He has a serious issue with dying, God's will, why people get sick, the Catholic Church and accepting any sound advice. His mind is so clouded, that even in his "sober" times, he seems backwards and confused, especially in public situations. He has had serious health issues, but ignores them as there are no symptoms presently. He lives by the supreme Satanic maxim: "I am going to do what I want!"

He seems to be very unaware of the incredible blasphemy he commits, let alone the things he says to others when he is drinking. He refuses to talk about it when he has sober times. The hate factor is so extreme (especially for all thing holy or sacred) that I often come away extremely disturbed after dealing with him. I realize God hears my prayers, yet nothing has improved it has only become worse. Perhaps I am unable to see the mystery involved here, which I have very often considered as being the very issue itself. At any rate, my brother's soul is in incredible danger at this point. If it were not so, than everything that the Church teaches is pointless and futile, yet my faith says otherwise that it will all work out for the good no matter how bad it may get. We can never know the mind of God, nor the workings of His Divine Mercy. Considering the state of his soul right now, concerns me more than anything else, but one cannot attend to it properly unless they are in realization of certain fundamental truths about themselves first. He is aware of this and this is where the greatest danger lies.

Even though I attempt to deal with the situation with absolute truth, and understanding of what he is experiencing, I do realize many things must work together in order for him to change. The primary factor that he must want to change above all else is the key to getting the rest of the process going. Prayer is my only aid that I can seem to offer with any real effective value. I am an extremely adamant person, but I feel that my only option at this point is to just let go and let God deal with him. If this is what must be done now, I am confident of the knowledge that at least I did attempt to help him many times, but must understand that there is a limit to what I can do. A lawyer cannot win every case, nor doctor cure every illness and I would be deceiving myself if I believe that I can help everyone I meet. I pray that I will not have to shake the dust off of my shoes, but this may have to be the case. This seems the most difficult of all things that I may have to do, as it is a soul that is at stake here, no withstanding that it is even my own brother's or anyone else.

This post only covers a very small portion of the situation, as I am sure we all have situations that would fill a volume. I believe the general idea is presented here clearly both concerning my authority and position on certain matters and the condition of my beloved brother. I feel perhaps I really am not presenting anything new here.

I am always learning something new, and have a great level of experience with alcoholism both in my own person and of many, many others. Each case tends to require a different approach, but must have one central ideal that has always been successful. Perhaps the tough love method and the unbridled presentation of what is truth does not work for everyone, so if anyone may have some sound advice, or could refer some good Catholic literary resources that I may not be aware of, it would be a great help. Please avoid giving me any "self-help" literature, as I do not approve of the "religiously watered down" content usually found in them. We live in an extremely dumbed-down society today that too often confuses proper learning and research with digested and useless information. He owns a copy of the AA book (which works for some individuals, but not all) but does not know where it is. He also owns a Bible that seems just as "misplaced somewhere" as the AA book is........Thank you for your understanding.

As there is no substitute for the truth, it is often the most disturbing reality, even sometimes more so than the addiction itself, that any thinking and supposedly rational human being would reject it, even as it is proven countless number of times to them. Some individuals will always say green is red, and this I fully understand as to why. Once one truly contemplates the length of eternity, it soon becomes abundantly clear as to what that individual needs to do. Understanding the concept, given the proper direction from the Church, seems to be what works for me (and many others) in order to keep them on the straight and narrow.

God Bless you.



-- Edited by jerald on Monday 27th of June 2011 03:34:44 AM

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~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 13696
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Aloha Jerald, Welcome to MIP.  I think you stopped at about the right time and place. I had a response to your post and then God stopped it just before I hit the enter button. God often does that for me cause I won't do it for myself.

Let me shortly mention that with the exception of one letter our names are alike. The rest of your post I have done before all of it...over and over and over.  I didn't know when to stop and thought I had to handle all God's business before God got to God's office and open all God's mail to decide what sat before God's eyes first thing in the day.

I also felt obliged until I came to understand that I wasn't "Thee" son of God.  I stopped being obliged when I found out that I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know I was making life worse for all of those people I turned off and hurt with my personality and behaviors.

When I stopped talking that's when God started.  When I listen, God speaks.  I practice listening more today than I ever did talking in the pass

Anytime you're ready to stop talking and start listening is okay with God.  Your description of yourself is me until I changed.  I may have been more involved than you have and that happens when you allow it.  I'm no longer the brightest bulb in the pack today because of choice and the blessings that come from Letting Go and letting God...following rather than leading...being a part of the family and practicing humility or...being teachable.  I've learned the difference between thinking I can't say I was wrong to I won't say I was wrong.  I can say it today because often I am and I'm glad there's a God and I'm not it.   My sponsor used to tease me because unlike the spelling of your name mine starts with a "G" and my sponsor reminded me that the "G" didn't mean or imply "God".  Course the "J" in my nick doesn't imply I'm the "son" either. 

So welcome to MIP  Miracles In Progress...yep there are real ones here almost every day.  Some of the membership I'm sure will step up and respond to you.  We all come from love which is often used as the name of Higher Power or God of your understanding and the like so you are loved already.  You haven't been going to Al-Anon so you've been missing a lot of what most of us have been getting, like "If you keep and open mind you will find help."  That was the first thing God wanted me to hear when I got into the rooms....the open minded part.  Promise fulfilled I found help.  My suggestion? (we don't or shouldn't give advice. only talk about what has or hasn't worked for us.) Go to as many meetings in 90 days as you can, one day at a time, and then evaluate the experience.  You won't be excommunicated...I wasn't and I didn't loose any positions in ministry either teaching, music, liturgy or any of them.

Keep coming back I liked listening to my old self.   Mahalo (thanks)  ((((hugs)))) smile



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Jerry F

Thanks for your post and valuable advice. I get what you are saying completly. Without offering an apology for myself, I may come across as very confident in my position, as any other way tends to confuse rather than to confirm. I must be rather focused, as I have enough work to do concerning my own soberiety, which is really what God wants me to deal with first and formost, at any cost and method. The charity I show to my brother in pointing out his obvious present state and that he is one a road to oblivion is only possible by my own experience in these matters for many years. It seems that by attempting to help, I actually do more damage. This says that I must tailor my method a little better in his case. I have the knowledge, yet still am not qualified to really be giving advice which is often based in opinions (opinion are never truth, but can contain elements of the truth), only sound direction. My advice is not my own, it is the teachings of the Church. This makes a great difference. I am going to speak to my priest on this very soon, so that should be very helpful.

The most uncharitable thing I could do is to say nothing. It is a matter of how and when to say it that is the key to getting through to him. And then there comes that fateful day when we must not say no more. Perhaps I need to prepare myself for this seemingly next step and resign it over to God as my job may be done. Resignation to the Will of God and Redemptive Suffering has become a very familiar practices with me and even though it is sometimes very unpleasant, it always does tend to work towards a better outcome that I never would have imagined myself happening. It took some time for me to learn the true value of these practices, I assure you.

At present, I have a feeling that God is really saying to me to not be too pushy with certain things with my brother as he is incapable of fully understanding the truth of the matter at hand, being in his present state of mind, body and soul. This is an important factor.

The greatest horror lies in what I do realize: If the worst happens (heaven forbid), and he ends up in Hell for all eternity, than I cannot hold myself responsible. I must learn more to live with the fact that at least I tried to help, and not so much believing that I have (or will) fail in the attempt given the grace of God. I am in full awareness that all I have said to him was not in vain. The end is not to frighten, but to enlighten. My brother will have to make his own choice, and there is an end to it only he will have to face---forever.

As for Al-Anon meetings, I would venture to try to attend one just to see if they might help, but am not of the personality type that favors the bandying of solutions where there is an obvious solution already available. The support group method is alright, but the Church tends to cover every aspect that I need at the present moment. Still, I must acknowledge that it works for certain individuals, which is fully understood by me as to why this is. In my sessions with my councelor we practice talk therapy--I talk, she listens. No advice is ever really offered, but rather it is expected that I practice severe introspection and find a solution myself.

St. Therese wrote: "Silence is the greatest lesson ever preached." As we have all experienced, silence can often be more profound in statement than a million words spoken. It does not mean that we are to not take some action and not admonish others for their benefit, never ours. The real success to the work is when they begin to listen themselves and attempt to change. I hope this the the very lesson I have learned in my struggles now and in the past.

I think that in addition to knowing when to stop talking, I would be well to learn the art of when to also stop writing.

Dominus Vobiscum.

Jerald

 



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~*Service Worker*~

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Hi Jerald
 
Welcome to MIP and IF you Choose Alanon
 
 
I am so very glad that you have attained sobriety by attending your church and have found support , meaning and direction for your life. I am sorry that your brother is still active in his disease. His AA Big Book and Bible have been misplaced and cannot be found This is not a surprise. You are not alone We have all thought if we SAID the Right words, presented the right argument (ultimate truth) loved the alcoholic enough, sacrificed everything we needed , that the alcoholic would hear and act!! in his / her own interest
 
The truth here is that alcoholism is a dreadful disease!!! One of the symptoms of the disease is the denial of reality and pretending black is white . Words are not effective
 
Alanon and AA are spiritual programs that have no conflict with any Religion. Being spiritual programs we do not endorse any religion and welcome everyone We do not discuss religion in our meetings but do talk about our complete reliance on God and trusting Him with the outcome. So if you feel you could use additional support, please look for a face to face meeting in your community or go to the following link:

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.htmltis

In alanon we learn to: Focus on ourselves, Let go and Get God, Live one day at a Time, Not try to force God to do our Will- Instead we pray for knowledge of God's Will for us and as for the Power to carry it out

I know I found the room of alanon and finaly attained the serenity and courage to live.

Please give us a try

 



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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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Hello Jerald, welcome to the board.

You wrote: The most uncharitable thing I could do is to say nothing. It is a matter of how and when to say it that is the key to getting through to him. - I assume (if I'm wrong to assume this, I apologize) that you've already said and done everything you can think of to help him to no avail. My experience is that people (myself included) are not going to listen until they are ready to hear.

My AH recently spent a very expensive lifestyle-induced night in the hospital, and, since I've said everything there was to say time and time again, this time I just mimed the locking my mouth whenever words came to me that I'd already said enough times before. He KNOWS my opinion on his lifestyle, just as I'm sure your brother KNOWS your opinion and can guess what you are going to say.

Sometimes silence works where words fail.


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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
bud


~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 2081
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Hi and welcome.

If you are finding you would like additional support, please consider attending at least 6 Al-Anon meetings before making any decisions. Some meetings may hold more affinity over another. It is through time that I absorbed and learned how to apply and practice the principles (an ongoing process). I was told not to leave before the miracle. I'm glad I stayed, as I witness many miracles.

Wishing you a multitude of miracles.

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