Dear mslouise, i get the feeling that you would like approval of others as to when and where to draw a "proper line".  My dear, I would love to tell you in a new-york minute.  But, as tempting as it is, I know that it would be based on what I  would want in my marriage.  What I am willing to tolerate and what I require in a love relationship could be miles apart from what you want and need.

Mslouise, you have to decide what you want your life to be like, what are your deal breakers and what your responsibility to your son are.  How much toxic energy do you want in the environment that you and your son live in.  These things are not subject to the approval or disapproval of anyones' opinion, but yours.  (although the culture does have standards to be enforced in the case of minor children).  These are decisions that one makes if they are involved with an addict or not.

Others can offer support as you make these decisions.  I don't mean to imply that these decisions are simple to arrive---particularily if one does not already have a sense of their own autonomy---and, if they have never seen a  healthy relationship or healthy family up close.

Please don't feel that you have to make decisions by committee vote.  Your inner self--where the soul lives, I believe is your highest authority--the place where you "live".  Trust your inner self.

 I have been very long winded.  I wanted to share with you how I have searched for the answers to the kind of questions you asked.

I have had my bottom....my moment of unacceptalbe behaviors...I have grown, still have much to learn....but I decided that it wasn't a healthy situation with my A a while ago now and left.......

I see so many and have heard in my meetings so many different answers to this question.   It was just a queston today in my head. 

It however, still makes me mad and frustration is the perfect word....I have forgave ....but not forgotten....all the moments of waiting, anxiety, cheating, flirting, his rules, no support....ahhhhh to vent is a wonderful thing : )   

Thanks to all .....  and I love the analogy...very well put

Kristi136188 wrote:

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Everyone has their own breaking point. There is no list that says once your A has done all these it's unacceptable and you need to leave. You can only give and give until you find that you have given all you can. This does NOT make you a bad person, or mean that you don't love and care for the A. Sometimes you need to love you more, especially when the A is not giving any love in return. We all deserve to be loved and treated with respect. Yes it is a disease, but in my own opinion a disease is not an excuse. Think of a diabetic. In basic terms, they need to take their medicine, check their sugar, and watch what they eat. You would still love the person despite the disease, but if they continued to eat things that weren't good for them and let the disease take control and began to lose limbs, become blind, and go into renal failure, you would still love them, but when would you draw the line if they are causing it? Everyone is different. My breaking point would be after they started to lose limbs and refused to change their eating habbits. Yes I would still love that person for who they were before they let the disease take over, but I do not want to have to take care of someone for the rest of their life because they refused to seek treatment or refused to stick to a diet. Maybe that sounds cruel, but the main point is that they are causing it themselves. If this were someone that was doing all they could to prevent these things and these things continued to happen...that would be different. Everyone has their own bottom line. You may need to reflect and figure out what yours is.

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 Kristi- thank you for your post. I have been doubting myself so much lately since I left my AH a couple of months ago. And he's also a noncompliant diabetic! Your words really helped me to put things into a clearer perspective today.

There is no right or wrong answer here. As you can see, everyone has a different perspective. This disease is powerful and keeps people confused and frantic. I hated it with passion. Yes, I hate the disease. The person with the disease is a loving, caring person. The alcohol alters Alcoholic's behavior and that is what causes me(us) grief.  Amazingly, some people have successful marriages and their loved ones recover. While others, like myself, and many more out there are still taking one day at a time. Hope is all we can hold down to. Hope that one day (hopefully in the near future) things can turn around. We all reach a different bottom. We all have different tolerance level as well. Keep taking care of yourself.

Love you and God bless you.

Hawaii

I can relate to you mslouise....my heart goes out to you...i have no answers for you but you are not alone! I struggle with the very same things and have recently put my foot down. The thing i think i will find hard is sticking to my guns. I throw a pitty party on myself and for him and always go back for another dose of lies cheating verbal abuse! When is enough enough? It's enough when ur literally making your own self sick over it all. Thats how im feeling im just physically sick! Thats how i hope I know its time! Stay strong! much love and prayers!

It's unacceptable the moment I say it is, not a moment sooner, not a moment later

When I got -here- (recovery from codependency) I couldn't even see straight I was so angry, so disgusted, the things that had been -done- -to me-* , the way I had been treated, and the worse thing about it was I had become someone I didn't even recognize, the things I said, I was...just...so angry

*we'll revisit this in a minute

I was talking to my uncle and he said "They may have stolen the car but you left the keys in it"

That statement stuck in my head for YEARS, it would rattle around in my tin can as I got angrier and angrier, I already had quite a few years in recovery and so had a lot of friends trying to explain to me I was -allowing it- they weren't -doing it TO me- they were just -doing it- and I was the one with my head in the Tiger cage getting more and more frustrated and angry because the tiger kept doing what tigers do when you stick your head in their cages...

Finally one day it came to me in a blinding flash, it's like I had been driving along, minding my own business, and I invited someone into my car, as we drove down the road I just -handed- them the steering wheel, they didn't ask for it, I gave it to them, so we're driving along and this person is driving, and we get in an accident, I get some scrapes and bruises, but it can happen to anyone, so we pick ourselves up, drive about ten feet and get in a worse accident, so I get a little mad, Hey man, be careful, I say, sorry she says, we drive about 50 feet then we get in ahead on doing 100 mph and I get pretty hurt, so I yell at her, she blames me, we fight, then we start driving away again, with her driving, we go about 50 feet and get in accident AGAIN, so I start buying her driving manuals, I start leaving driving courses phone numbers around the car, I read about driving myself so I A) prove her wrong and B) show her she is SUPPOSED to drive, as time goes on we keep getting in accidents and it gets to the point that whenever we stop at traffic lights people say, Hey, how are you?" and all I can do is go on this RANT about what a terrible driver this person is, I show them my scars and tell blow by blow stories about what a terrible driver she is, and pretty soon no one wants to be around me any more, because all I can talk about is how bad of a driver she is (which only means I spend MORE time in the car with her) so by the end all I could imagine was kind of like a scene from Fear and Loathing from Las Vegas driving around in this car screaming at each other, being so angry and SHE. JUST. DOESN'T. GET. IT. until I am yelling and losing my mind and getting hurt nearly daily and it's getting worse

then I left

I just simply got out of the car and walked away, no job, no money, I lost my home, my business, I was 40-something years old living on a couch with my stuff under a friends porch

But I was driving my own car

it was over when I said it was over, it could have been over years earlier

it took me a lot of support, and a lot of help, because I couldn't see how I had given away my power, I knew I was powerless but I thought it was helpless, not powerless

It's over when we say it's over, and it's over when we decide we have had enough, not because other people change their behavior, because I have learned other people DON'T change their behavior, crows caw, tigers bite people, leopards have spots and so on, and it's up to me whether I want to volunteer to put up with someone else's abuse or not, I may be powerless over them, and I may be powerless over alcohol, but I am only as powerless over myself as I decide to be, and when I was staying in an abusive situation that was pretty powerless, I learned I am powerless over anything I give my power to

I don't need to control cars and trucks on the freeway if I don't run out in traffic you know? I imagine if I played on the freeway for a few years I'd get pretty mad at those crazy drivers because they kept running me over, if I don't play on the freeway, I don't get run over, if I do play on the freeway, I do get run over, acceptable or unacceptable has nothing to do with it, the decision to play on freeways or stay off them is the critical key for me, and if I go play on the freeway, don't be surprised when a car runs me over, because thats what they do

I can blame cars until I am blue in the face, and I did, and I can rant and rave and yell and be angry and none of it does any good until I made the decision to take my power back, being resentful is like playing russian roullette with this gun: