Aimee,

For me, running these things by my sponsor is always the best thing to do because she knows me inside and out.  In terms of forgiveness I have had a tremendous amount of practice on this spiritual principal.  What I have discovered that through willingness and humility, I was able to take action because I wanted to be free from my anger and resentment. 

True forgiveness for me is letting go of any notion of a better past.  I had to recognize that I too was bringing past events forward rolling them around my head wishing I could have said this or done that which kept me angry and resentful.  I cant change the past.  I can only live in this day where my higher power is and invite Him in to direct my thinking and actions and teach me how to live.

Specific actions I have taken on this spiritual principal were to pray pages 449 and  552 BB of AA, Third Edition daily.  Those are the passages on acceptance and forgiveness that were vital to turn my thinking around.  I also do a lot of journaling about the situation that turned me inside out.  I myself cannot come to a true place of forgiveness unless I put the issue in the steps and do a thorough inventory with my sponsor on the person/issues.   I also like to keep up with my gratitude list to show me everything that is going on in my life that God is taking care of me no matter what is going on.  All of these things really have helped to turn my thinking around and avoid focusing on "the problem" and stay focused on the solution.

In many instances I don't know when my higher power removed the anger or resentment until I have had an interaction with that person, place, or thing.  God has perfect timing.  If I put forth the effort, he takes care of the results.

Xoxo

TC 

 

With all due respect, hotrod, I completely disagree that we have no right or power to forgive. When someone wounds us, acknowledging the pain they've caused us isn't judging them for anything. It's just simply acknowledging that they hurt us, and it IS entirely possible - even necessary - for us to forgive them. We need to remember, though, that forgiveness isn't for them - they may not ever know they hurt us, or be willing to admit it; like you, they may only defend themselves, dig in their heels and assert that they were right and we're just stupid for being hurt over it. Forgiveness is for US. We forgive and let go so that we can continue to grow because holding on to anger and resentment only hurts us and holds us back from our best potential; it rarely has any effect on the other person - quite often, they couldn't care less that they hurt us, and usually don't even realize that we're carrying a grudge. Talking to someone like that and telling them we forgive them for what they did wouldn't change anything, and might even open the door for more conflict.

In all fairness, there are some people who would be horrified if they knew how deeply they'd hurt us, and would instantly (and sincerely) apologize if they knew. You have to take into account the personality of the person you're dealing with. If it's someone who normally is nice enough and they just said or did something hurtful when they were having a bad day, they'll most likely apologize and welcome forgiveness so that the relationship can be healed and continue. If it's someone who couldn't care less about other people even on a good day, it might be best to work through the issue yourself, forgive and let go, and just go on with your life without ever saying anything to the other person. That's a decision that each of us should come to between ourselves and our Higher Power, and maybe our sponsor or other trusted person in our lives.

I think it's also important to remember that forgiveness and trust aren't the same thing. So many people seem to think that just because they've forgiven someone, that automatically means they have to trust them again. Far from it!!!! Forgiveness is given, trust is earned. For me, forgiveness is usually the easy part. Learning to trust someone again who's already broken my trust is much more difficult.

Good luck with your decision, Aimee.

Red Hawk

Slippery slope, to be sure.... reading the dramatically different responses from HotRod and RedHawk - and I tend to agree with..... BOTH.

To me, it boils back down to my intentions, and what I am trying to accomplish with it....  If it is just for me, I have learned to "forgive" people, even those who would not accept that they needed forgiving..... To verbalize this to them, could have easily been, or been taken as, manipulative on my part....  If somebody is in a place where they recognize that they have hurt us, and are asking or obviously open for forgiveness, AND we are sincere about it, it can be a wonderful and freeing thing to truly and honestly forgive someone....

 

I smiled when I read Betty's post, as I am much the same.... if someone came up to me and told me "I forgive you", I would hear them as "fighting words", and would defend/justify why I had done nothing wrong...

 

In my experience, we have a lot more opportunity to "forgive" people, internally, than we do to actually tell people this....

 

Tom

I'd have to check my motives on something like that.

It makes me think of my favorite saying "what you think of me is none of my business." I think it goes the other way around, too... "What I think of others is none of their business."

I'm not sure how I'd feel on the receiving end of an "I forgive you" if I hadn't asked that person for forgiveness. Might hurt, or offend, frankly. For all I know, I may have never thought I'd done anything offensive to the person that warranted them to have to forgive me.

It's a different matter if someone approaches me asking for forgiveness. That's where I'd have to also examine my motives, too - especially my character defects when it comes to being willing to forgive someone. I'm learning through experience right now that there's a part of me that identifies with the hurt and feelings of resentment and therefore doesn't want to grant forgiveness. This is stuff I'm working through with my HP and my sponsor, however - and it's not going to come overnight.

My sponsor always encourages me when I get an idea in my head that I'm kind of questioning, it's a good idea to pick up the phone and give her a call. In the meantime, it's best I pause and ask my HP into the question.

 

 Great post!!...I am qualified to be a part of this family for certain.

Along the way to this day in my recovery I have learned that "rights" seem to me to be actions that are supported by law or authority...and then...in my inventories I have found that outside of the rights I have "abilities" and in this case the abilities to hold resentments...if I want to exercise it and the abilities to forgive...if I want to exercise this.  I have for such a long time in Al-Anon not thought or said "I have the right" to do this or that instead I acknowledge that "I have the abilities" to do this or that.  I don't have to ask someone for permission to hold resentments...I just do and to the opposite I don't ask permission to forgive either. 

Holding resentments isn't someone else hurting me...it is only me hurting me.  The other person comes into the picture when "I allow them" to hurt me...my participation is the allowing.  That became true for me and is still true for me today after learning at the knee of my sponsor and the fellowship.   Who am I responsible to and for?? ...Me...  I learned lessons from the statement "Taking offenses"  Taking...I pick them up and I go off with them when I don't have to or want to.  When I do that I am going against some Higher Power and the sanity that Higher Power brings into my life as I participate with it. 

Today, for me, from practice...compassion is a part of my value system.  It is always on.  I have decided to leave it "on" and not turn it off for any reason.  Compassion gets in the way of judging people, places and things for the reason of self satisfaction...me being a Higher Power.  Compassion for me means feeling with and helps me identify with others..."I am as you are...not better, not worse, as..."  I judge from my own experiences...what I thought and the consequences, what I did and the consequences and how I felt and those consequences and from that process...judging has left the house...it is not a part of my personal value system and neither is wasting time "taking offenses" and "holding resentments".

The lesson is broad and everyday I get to go to school on it.  I have a life today I would not surrender for anything or anyone else.   Practice, practice, practice.  -and- standing still, in one place and looking straight above you murmur..."Thank you, I am grateful"  say that often in meetings and on MIP's boards.    (((((hugs)))))

There are times I need to practice forgiveness when the other person doesn't even know they did anything wrong.  There are many times they didn't do anything wrong. Often it is my own perceptions that have caused me my grief.

If someone has truly wronged me, the most helpful thing I have found is QTIP.  I believe people are good and doing the best they can with what they have.  Maybe it isn't good enough for me at the time and I have some thinking and some decisions to make for myself.  If I don't take it personally like they have purposely done something to me, I don't have anything to have to forgive.  Most times it wasn't directed at me. If I am convinced it was directed at me, I still don't have much to have to forgive as I am feeling pretty badly they are in the position they are in life.  I can just decide how I will ensure I am not in that position in the future.

I don't typically go to anyone and tell them I forgive them.  If someone apologizes to me, I can verbally let them know they are forgiven.   Other than that, it sounds to me to be so self righteous to just have someone tell me they forgive me.  That is especially true if I do not feel I have wronged them.   

If you are speaking of the women in your last post, I would be more inclined myself to let it lie.  If they are concerned about your forgiveness they can let you know.  I don't feel it is my duty to absolve anyone of their guilt or provide them a way out of their own accountability in the situation.  I might then be shifting my fixing mode from my A to someone else.

I would go to my sponsor with it as you mentioned.  Good call.  You are working so hard on you.  Maybe keep the focus there and continue on the wonderful road you are travelling on.

Blessings.

 

Good question.

You made me think. My experience with A showed me the forgiveness I gave him for the disease that tore my life apart.

In MY experience, my HP, the creator, it is clear in his words that we must forgive if we want to be forgiven ourselves. Colossions 3:13. Again this is how I guide my life or where I look for answers. I know it says Love is forgiveness, forgetting the injury, I like that.

In a way it is like what Betty said too. I am not critical, I don't judge, so it was honestly natural to just love him thru it all. Hated what the disease did. REALLY hated what it did.

I do know what hurts, I do know what is wrong, but forgivness in a way is knowing its my job to let go.That person does not answer to me.

Something happened to me that I borrowed money for all that came up after I moved. Planned to pay it with the rent money. Tenants skipped out on me. I mean GONE. Left a huge mess. Just took off for hmm N Dakota was it.

Anyway.. I was livid at first. I sent her a message and realized it was not the money, He and her with two kids, had a chance at a great job for him far away. They had few days to get there. All they had to do was tell me. Life is hard, I would have understood! we could have worked out something, sell the saddles I gave them, give me one of their extra cars to sell.

It hurt really. They were GREAT neighbors and tenants till then. Helped me so much.

So it hit me, behind the anger, it was really pain from disappointment, not the money or mess.

Well now I owe a lot to my friend and had no money for food, My best friend gave me money to get us thru.

I found a way to get the money to  my friend the 5th. She has been sooo gracious!So good to me. I know and she knows I felt worst than her.

She forgave me, loved me, as I did for my tenants. 

Believing as I do, after all I have read, I cannot imagine not forgiving, when others have forgiven ever so much more.

love,deb

There is a great scene in the book/movie Eat Pray Love, where the author discusses how she struggled to let go of her bad feelings surrounding her divorce, and her feeling that her ex-husband absolutely hated her guts over the divorce. She laments that for various reasons, she is not able to have a conversation with her ex-husband and resolve everything. A friend she meets at an ashram in India tells her that she can have that conversation in her head, and she can forgive herself AND her ex-husband for the wrongs committed by both sides during the divorce. The focus is on forgiveness as a tool for her to move on. She forgives herself, she forgives her ex-husband, and she issues her own apology out into the universe, for her HP to "handle."

My personal worldview is that forgiveness is one of the most precious gifts we can give another person. But many times the need to issue an apology in person and "receive" an acceptance and forgiveness can actually come from a selfish motivation. I struggle A LOT with this issue when it comes to certain things my AH has said and done, but I find that I have gotten much better at it where my parents are concerned; I am able to simply acknowledge my role in our history, forgive myself for my own failings, and forgive my parents for their mistakes. No long, drawn-out, confrontational conversation required (although sometimes an actual conversation is certainly warranted and beneficial for everyone).