Am I Too detached? I don't know how I feel. - Al-Anon Family Group

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Am I Too detached? I don't know how I feel.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha LMH...been there and done that myself with maybe a couple of twists however because of the program I've learned the difference twix caring about and caring for.

While I am enabling I care for...take over, superman, crutch, man in waiting and dedicated to sacraficing my life for the alcoholic who is just not being responsible for her own consequences and making choices that result in better consequences.

Caring about is a detachment condition for me I get to be supportive without carrying the alcoholic on my back or being on hers for that matter. Neither work better to be on the sideline rooting for her than running the race for her.

The emotions are normal and natural in this disease because of the hurt and pain. Feel them all, recognize where they come from and then turn them over to your HP. If you are in program...write them out and go over them with your sponsor. This is where I learned...the chaos and crisis lessons. Once I was done with them all I had to do was polish up every so often while she continued on the progressive run of the disease. HP didn't put my alcoholic in my life with a personal note "okay here take care of this"...I choose that and never sought direction with it from anyone...it is my responsibility to correct my unhealthy choices and the feelings that come with it help me to do it.

Too detached? Lets hear from others. I'm not going to judge it or put it on a 1 to 10 scale. If you aren't enabling the problem to get worse and letting him have the dignity of his choices...that's how I learned it. Detaching with anger...possible and that's one stage toward detaching with love. Keep working it. (((((hugs))))) smile

atheos · Senior Member

Anger can be a form of attachment as well. If a random stranger was doing this to himself, it would probably not make you this angry.

Anger and love are two sides of the same coin of caring about someone. And sometimes the coin lands anger-side-up, and that's perfectly OK, you feel what you feel and you don't have to be a saint!

-- Edited by atheos on Tuesday 14th of June 2011 01:40:33 AM

Otie · Senior Member

Dear likemyheart, it sounds to me like you are feeling very angry because he is pushing your buttons that he is very familiar with ---and you are feeling very controlled. I think I detect passive-agressive overtones from what you say about him---and passive-agressive people can trigger such anger. I'll wager that anyone on this board who has ever dealt with passive-agressive loved ones will back me up!!

My main point, though is that I have worked in the medical field all of my life, and we are also put in the same position by patients who are very somatic types. We are taught to be very careful in dealing with such persons not to discount their symptoms/complaints just because they "call wolf" frequently. It is an easy trap to fall into. We must treat them fairly and reasonably like all other patients. we must be honest and compassionate with them (they have their reasons).

If I were in your shoes I would have a standard plan of what to say when he calls you. Like: "If you are feeling this way, you need to call 911--now. I will be happy to speak with your doctor on the phone after he/she sees you. This protects the both of you. I think of that as acting--rather than reacting.

I know it is tricky to deal with. Hope this helps some,

Sincerely, Otie

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

This may sound cold, but one of my best friends is a doctor. He said to me once how frustrated HE gets when he sees exactly what you describe in his patients!

He cares, but can you imagine? What makes them go to the doc anyway? They don't follow their advice.

Are they afraid they will die and not be able to drink anymore?I know it is all insanity hon. Its no wonder your head is confused.

For this very reason....what are you going to do for you tomorrow???

Love,debilyn

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

It is hard when people don't take care of themselves, whether they're alcoholics or not. There's usually some kind of compulsion involved. I have a friend who has a life-threatening condition, something like diabetes, who takes huge risks with her eating. I don't say anything to her -- I know it would do no more good than telling an alcoholic he shouldn't be drinking -- but sometimes it's hard sitting there watching her make unwise choices while she's struggling from the everyday disabilities from the very same health problem. Then I reflect that I also have compulsive issues that keep me from taking the best care of myself. That makes me alternately compassionate and even madder at myself!

It's very sad that people have these issues, and also sad that sometimes people cry wolf so many times that we don't know when they're really struggling and when they're manipulative. It sounds to me as if you are protecting yourself by not getting sucked in. And it also sounds as if (like other A's) your A has been so focused on himself that it never occurred to him that his behavior was hurting others and that that would mean you'd need to protect yourself and keep your distance when he put out the call that you should come save him. I really think a big syndrome of this disease is that they have no idea how much their behavior affects others. So maybe this is some feedback for him.

Keep on taking good care of yourself.

Rora · Senior Member

I've been in a similar situation and having similar feelings. Today, I am detached, often with love, but like atheos said, "sometimes the coin lands anger up". I've recently had the exaH text me as though he was someone else, telling me he was in the hospital and it wasn't good. I had the resources to call someone nearby who could see from their window that he was standing on his deck. It was at that time that I really had it validated that I had been wasting so much of my life being worried and scared and sad about his health, because it became a reliable HOOK for him. Detach, detach, detach. Turn him over to HP, pray for him to be well, emotionally and physically. It's not within our control.

Rora

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

I know how u feel. I agree, if u are angry or fearful- u are definetely not "detached"- I would say it is much more the opposite- bc when we begin to experience true emotional autonomy and loving emotional detachment= all it means is: we no longer take their life choices personally- we accept that life is merely a consequence of the choices we make, it is not personal or a judgement. Simply cause and effect. 2) we give respect and dignity to us and them- which means we give them the time and space to figure out how to solve their own life's problems/issues. 3) it means we do not jump to rescue others but give them our compassion and faith that they can sort through and cope with their life, just like we now choose to do and just like every other adult in the world 4) we understand what is the disease and we can seperate us and them from that. 5) suport means we listen, the love means we care= it does NOT mean we have to continue to enable and be manipulate-able. When we change- the A notices. They are used to sucking our energy the exact same way we always allowed them to do in the past. Let him have his feelings- u dont have to take them on anymore. As long as u focus on him- u lose u and feed the disease. Focusing on us allows us to re-discover who we are, what we need and your own self respect and self esteem. No one can hurt or upset or distract us, unless we allow it. Take care of u, wtvr that looks like! Incidentally, I didnt get any feeling of emotional autonomy and compassionate detachment, until I first focused on me, my feelings/reactions only (& practiced faith and not rescuing them- now I rescue me) and I established (set and follow thru) personal boundaries that offered me my own respect, love & dignity.

ythannah · Senior Member

likemyheart wrote:
OF COURSE YOU ARE SHORT OF BREATH YOU NINNY YOU HAVE A HEART DEFECT THAT INTERFERES WITH YOUR BODYS ABILITY TO EXCHANGE OXYGEN FOR CARBON DIOXIDE AND SHORTNESS OF BREATH IS YOUR BODYS WAY OF TELLING YOU IT CANT BREATHE NINNY NINNY NINNY!

That part made me chuckle out loud. I love it. biggrin

I clicked on this thread because I've been wondering much the same thing, whether I am "over-detached". Or, at least, I've forgotten about putting the love in my detachment.

What it always comes down to for me is "What's best for ME and my serenity?"

nice4ever · Member

You wrote: "when HE needs me, he thinks I should drop everything and become the care-giving loving wife again."
Well - sure, why not, you always have; right? (LOL)

My mantra of the day is this: If we want things to be different, we have to do things differently.

A month or two into the program (and I'm only 6 months in now, so I'm not an expert), I felt as if detaching meant not caring.
But I read something in one of the older forums publication about each person being their own train (some ready to crash), and about having your own trains to manage. And we have to give him the dignity of bringing his own train into the station. I don't think I'm portraying it as well as when I read it.
But I've been thinking a lot about dignity lately and how compassionate it is to afford another the dignity to go their own way, to learn to solve their own problems, and we can hope that sometime our tracks become aligned again.

((hugs))

Ness · ~*Service Worker*~

Hes having an episode, night sweats last night, weird pulse, shortness of breath, chest not in pain but weird.

Hi LMH.............this sounds to me like withdrawal & the ensuing panic/anxiety.....just a consideration.

Alcoholics are so self absorbed they feel they must let us know of every crisis that befalls them....and then we end up with similar symptoms...... caused by 'attaching' to their chaos...hence the need to detach detach detach!!

I agree with Otie when she says

We are taught to be very careful in dealing with such persons not to discount their symptoms/complaints just because they "call wolf" frequently. It is an easy trap to fall into. We must treat them fairly and reasonably like all other patients. we must be honest and compassionate with them (they have their reasons) If I were in your shoes I would have a standard plan of what to say when he calls you. Like: "If you are feeling this way, you need to call 911--now. I will be happy to speak with your doctor on the phone after he/she sees you. This protects the both of you. I think of that as acting--rather than reacting.

Detaching for me is an ongoing learning curve........... I refer here quite a lot.... http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

I like what Jerry said (thx Jerry) because of the program I've learned the difference twix caring about and caring for. Food for thought.

In support

Ness

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Update:

I was pretty angry at first, all the way in during the drive to the hospital (they kept him overnight, I saw his mom, she was worried so I decided I should go in, kept hoping God would stop me by breaking my car but glad HE didnt because well, who needs a broke car on top of everything else?)
When I saw him I knew I still loved him but I also felt the detachment I needed to feel I knew his health problems are a direct result of his lifestyle and there is NOTHING I can ever do to change how it goes.

Ive been thinking of Linbabas words ruined their drinking. Hmm, I imagine that the doctor will look at the test results and further ruin his drinking by talking about alcohol consumption being a cause of low potassium. Imagine that? I ended up taking him back to where his car was, the club, (he stayed there awhile, of course, all those friends buying him a commiserating drink. Bah!). I cant help but hope that somehow, this all ruins his drinking.

I want to thank each of you for your words Jerry, your experience shines through each of your posts, hopefully I will be there some day; atheos, it is so hard to love someone SO much, to have a coin flip show me that regardless of the outcome, the basic truth is still there, the love; Otie & Deblyn I have often thought it must be hard as heck to be in the medical field and give such good no, great, advice and KNOW it will be ignored and that you will see the same person back again and again, (imagine watching someone you think might be a great guy, slowly deteriorate, its got to be heartbreaking), I understand his symptoms are real to him and I know it scares him, just not enough to scare him into sobriety, unfortunately; Mattie I have a diabetic friend who eats atrociously then has episodes surprise? My AH cries wolf so often and always after a weekend of pushing himself too far its REALLY hard to keep caring about him; Rora, yes, it is NOT within our control nuff said?; kitty who am I kidding? I know I am not detached from him, I know that I am not able to NOT care about him thats the hard part isnt it? To understand that the emotion I feel means I still care a great deal about how he is doing, I want NOT to care but today I knew I did; ythannah writing that made me chuckle I was envisioning a guy banging on his thumb at the docs office, doctor it hurts when I do this and the dr saying well, then dont do that! (or the doctor taking the hammer and beating him over the head to emphasize his words) ninny ninny ninny; nice4ever I am trying to do things differently I truly understand that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the different results is the definition of insanity I do understand; Ness there are times when Ive, um, overindulged. And paid the price, egawds I hate the hangover headache, sickness that lasts all day long and makes me wish I hadnt had the last drink I KNOW that my AHs Monday-morning-after woes are a direct result of his actions over the weekend. The thought I feel here is let him suffer the consequences of his actions;

I also hear Tom hell either drink or he wont, what will you do and RLCs, hotrods, bettinas and Pinkchips perspectives even though they didnt chime in. I have gotten SO much great insight from reading on this board thank you all!

He will drink, smoke and suffer the consequences; all I can do is offer my condolences until he is ready to change things in his life for himself.

flopadopilus · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh Likemyheart, how I love reading your last reply and I relate to you on dettaching. I didn't chime in either because I am in the same boat with a few differences in between. I loved reading what people wrote and needed to take some noted. Thanks for all the posts here, great info!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.