Hi John 

 I hear you and the check is on the way.  Maybe we could sponser some of the men in the house on a monthly basis.    I have done that with children in foreign countires and it works well.

Good Luck

Thank you for explaining the situation John.

Somehow I made it through the last couple of years financialy. Somehow my HP gives me enough to make it by, if often at the last minute. I help my children and others as much as I can and it keeps comming. If my HP gets me by and I ignore his children then I would expect he should ignore me. Faith tells me that I will get it back.

Please find my small donation in Paypal. Interesting name Pay Pal.

I will pray for your situation. I have no extra money, as I am a single mom. I hope HP sees you through. :)

 

 

Thanks for the leadership John...Humility in action.  Reaching out to others and asking "HELP" is how it worked for me.  I didn't always get what I needed...sometimes I got more than I expected and in the process I learned gratitude.  Wish I could do more.

((((hugs))))

PS...we've been doing yardsales and shopsales to get that "extra".

-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 13th of June 2011 01:06:35 PM

Hi Clep,

Now, I didn't ask for help from a "Al-Anon group", I asked for help from all registered members of Miracles In Progress.  I asked because I was taught many years ago, (entered recovery in 1983, and have been continuously in recovery since 1989.. 21 years now.) that asking for help when in need was healthy and humbling.  That I didn't have to always try to do things by myself.  I didn't have to carry the weight on my shoulders alone any more.  I was also taught that I needed to stop simply being a consumer and start being a contributor in the dance of life.  And I was also taught that people can't read my mind, if my lips (hands in this case) don't say it don't expect people to know it.

Now, I am going to say two things and one of them might sound pretty blunt, but it needs to be said.  People tend to try to beat me up with the traditions from time to time, and yet they are not adhering to them themselves.  This site cost money, every month, money is spent to cover the expenses of this site.  Since 1998 (13 years) when this site was established, I personally paid its cost 95% of the time without any help from any of the members.  Only when I rise my hand and say I need some help (with whatever I need the help with or for) has it been rendered at all.  And sadly, the ones quickest to use the word "traditions" are those that have not so much as submitted a dime to "be fully self supporting, declining outside contributions" (Tradition 7) or offered a dime to compensate the "special service worker(s)" that sits in the back ground, maintaining the site, building it, getting it listed on the first page of search engine results, (so it is easily found and user friendly) catering to it, catering to its various groups or its individual MIP members who send over 300 emails per month.  (Tradition 8) Instead, they tend to operate on the belief that because I am a 12 step program member, I can be taken advantage of and the work I do is not worthy of any voluntarily submitted compensation.  (http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_appendicei.cfm)  In short, living by spiritual principles we are not suppose to accept from another member, what we would have to pay for through a non member source, for special services, and simply abuse and take advantage of a members kindness.

Now, I will tell a bit of a story that brings God into the picture, because He is always in it. When I ask for help, I trust God to take care of the rest. To move those whose heart is open and whose own situation will not be jeapardized by helping with what they can. 

There was once a man stuck on a mountain.  It was extremely cold, and he endured a severe snow blizzard, and was almost  taken over by an avalanche more than once.  He was stuck on the mountain for three days.  On day four he was able to get off the mountain and onto safe ground again.  He told a friend his story of how he was stuck for 3 days, scared and sure he was going to die on the mountain.  The friend said, "God must have sent some angels to you!"  The man replied, "Nah, it was just a couple of eskimos that got me off it."  

God uses people.  In the world are many, many eskimos, some that don't even get any snow where they live..  they are Gods angels.  Any one can pray, but if they are not going to rise their hand and ask for help, and humble themselves enough to let go of their ego and pride, especially when it stands to adversely effects the lives of others,  It is then that they are spiritually disconnected.  Not when they reach out in despair.

When I asked for help, I was absolutely trusting God to do what He does and send who He will.  And He has...

A big thank you goes out to the eskimos that climbed the mountain and brought me to safe ground again.

John

When someone asks for help, it is our choice to help or not. There is nothing wrong in asking for help. Likewise, there is nothing wrong in choosing whether to help or not. A long time ago I realized that my method of giving back to others (tithing) felt better (more true to ME) if my giving was in deeds rather than money. I have given of myself, my talents, to better my fellow man, that is what I choose to do because I have more of ME to give; and I truly believe that the physical me doing for others (goodness is that needed), is many times more valuable than the monetary value I could offer. (I would MUCH rather give of myself - the rewards are much deeper). I am sorry John, I am broke. I haven't any money to offer - I can only hope that God wants your causes continue.

Is there a particular website for paypal? I do recall using this method of payment on some items purchased in the past.

I donot have a problem at all contributing to this web site to keep it going.  There are many free websites and I would not know how each one runs, or if they are making money from the free site such as Facebook does.  I do not know how this site runs or if you make money off of it or not.

That does not make me unwilling to contribute to a service I use.  I have not seen an area to contribute to the site.   

When I speak of the site, I do not mean a person.  I do mean the web site itself.

The traditions are not being used to skirt accountability here.   There are being recognized as a foundation to live by.  

I personally couldn't imagine going on a web site and asking multiple people for money regardless of the reason.  When I hand something over to HP, I try hard not to take it back right afterwards.

Blessings.

Thank each and everyone for your donations, sharing of your thoughts, suggestions, advise and warm words.  

I would like to take just a moment to express myself simply for the point of clarification and understanding.   Some of what I share here, might disturb a few, and others will fully understand and agree.  Regardless, of the position others take, mine is not up for negotiation or compromise.  I stopped negotiating and compromising my morals and values many, many years ago.

1.  This is not Al-Anon.  You may align yourself with Al-Anon, but this is Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums.  This site was established in 1998 by me as a forum for any 12 step members who wanted to utilize it as another tool in their recovery tool box.  It is a privilege that has been afforded to the members of the 12 step community, not a right.  In my position, Miracles In Progress is the whole embodiment of what I personally have invested myself in for many years.  Miracles In Progress, which is my baby so to speak, is not limited to a few message boards, chatrooms, web pages, ect.  It is also inclusive of the Miracles In Progress Aftercare Recovery Homes.  

2. There is no distinction at the forum level as to which group or 12 step organization each person aligns themself with.  Be it you are a member of Al-Anon, AA, or any other 12 step program, here at 12stepforums.net, or in the recovery homes each person or collectively as a whole across all the groups you are defined as "Miracles In Progress".  Which group or organization you align yourself with, has nothing to do with 12stepforums.net or "Miracles In Progress" as an enity.  There is not any affliation or association between the two enities, other than one provides space, and the other utilizes it.  Much the same as a church that a variety of f2f 12 step meetings are held in.  

4.  No where in my request for help did I target or single out any particiular group or individual for the request that was made.  It is stated clearly that each MIP member should "seek their own heart" as to whether they want to help or not, and no where in the request is so much as a suggestion, no less threat that the online web site portion of MIP would be jeapardized or threatened in the absence of any donations. 

Since this site was established in 1998, I have been a very consistent contributor. I won't toot my own horn, the numbers below reflect what I have personally put into MIP work wise and financially, to support this as a safe haven for people in recovery.  I have and do continue to make my own contribution.  

5  Do any of the contributions go to the sites actual expenses?  When a basket is passed, and the collected funds pay the rent to a church, is the church required to account to the 12 step group or any individual of that group, how those funds are utilized?  No, the group is paying their way for the space they are utilizing.  That is the issue, not how the rent gets spent once out of the groups hands.  I will only go as far as saying it would be considered reimbursement for what I have given to it over the years without any help or compensation.

I will never hold out that the site is being jeapardized because of a lack of donations, it won't be.  I personally will not let it be, as evidenced by the 13 years it has consistently been here in cyberspace, and how well established it is, easily found, and user friendly.  It's been over 20 years since I took any of my belongings to a pawn shop, but when it comes to MIP... I would take whatever I needed to there, to keep the doors open here.  Thats just me. 

6.  As a 12 step member and by the design of the spiritual principles which are principles which we should practice "in all of our affairs", each individual should be fully self supporting, declining outside contributions...  I did not ask for any funds from any other organization outside of Miracles In Progress.  Yet, here is a resource that cost money, be it the web hosting, domain name, the message board, chat room or even the webmaster who creates and caters to the site (myself), and in the 13 years that I have hosted this portion of MIP, a dedicated area for Al-Anon members, not more than 1.25% percent of its almost 8000 members have adherd to this spiritual principle in the past 13 years.  

7. I look out for the common welfare of Miracles In Progress as a whole.  I hold no individual or group with which they align themselves with to any higher or lower level of standards.  Here, each person and each group meet on equal ground.  While, I myself am a 12 step member, and surely qualify for more than one 12 step organization, at the forum level, I am merely one of many members (approximately 25,000) of Miracles In Progress.

8. Yes, I have placed myself in a place of tremendously high responsibility with Miracles In Progress.  As a whole enity, MIP (not just a web site) has a great amount of expenses attached to it.  And it continues to expand.. example, I am also the founder of the Miracles In Progress H.O.P.E motorcycle club.  It was established 3 years ago, and has 37 members.  Requirement for membership is that its members be aligned with a 12 step organization, (same as MIP 12 Step Recovery Forums, and MIP Aftercare Recovery Homes.  The H.O.P.E stands for "Helping Other People Everyday".  We work towards doing a random act of kindness for the needy each month.  Last month, we painted an elderly man and womans older home, replaced a portion of its roof, and groomed its yard.   This included bringing the funds together to make this possible as well.  Month before last, we anonymously provided an unemployed family with 4 children, (all under 12 years old) with a 300.00 gift certificate for a grocery store, and several misc. gift certificates for entertainment, movies, an arcade center, a water park, paddle boats on a river, and a roller skating rink.  Any yes, the members of H.O.P.E also were asked to donate some funds to the MIP as a whole this past week.  

Funds that are generated, are utilized for a wide range of needs.  Example, a member of MIP 12 step forums informed me of a elder in their group here at MIP who was struggling with the decision to pay their electric bill or their medications.  They are not able to attend f2f meetings due to both their age (78), as well as the lack of any meetings in their location, and their own inability to drive any longer.  I spoke with this elder member, who has been an MIP member for almost 7 years now, and made the decision to pay their electric bill and internet provider.  Another member of almost 10 years died, and after all those years with us here at MIP, I paid for a foral service to deliver a wreath to the funeral pallor on behalf of all members of MIP as a show of condolence.  I also provide newcomers to the MIP recovery homes with a voucher of 25.00 to Salvation Army or Goodwill's second hand stores, for clothing when they show up with nothing but what is on their backs. As for helping someone within this particular Al-Anon group; I will withhold their identity, but simply say that she has 3 children and couldn't get her car passed state inspection because it needed brakes all the way around and she works part time, gets food stamps, and her ex ah won't help at all.  I made the decision to cover the cost of the car getting brakes and inspected so she has a means to transport her kids as needed, and continue to get back and forth to work.  These are just a few examples of what Miracles In Progress is about.  It's about helping people, giving a hand when it is needed and justified, and not simply being consumers in the dance of life, but contributors to the lives of others.

9.  Now, MIP as a whole is standing at the turning point, which means I am standing at that same turning point.  I am faced with some orginizational decisions.  Do I put a board of trustees together, and go for a 501(c)3 status, or do I get it listed as a "Inc", independent corporation?  Do I open the door to outside contributors, at the public, corporate or government level?  (I  personally am not in favor of this proposition).  Do I get each area of MIP licensed separately and independently, or license "Miracles In Progress" and put the various areas under that one license as subsidaries?  How would I cover the expense of a business attorney, a CPA, and a tax attorney to help me make these decisions and see them through the process?  I am in the process of contacting a few professionals and seeing what I need to do and how I need to do it.

10.  Now, let's be reasonable here for a moment.  Let's say, hypothetically that each registered member submitted a one ($1) dollar donation each month, as a demonstration of willingness to adhere to the 7th tradition, as a principle by which they are willing to now live their own lives.  Do the math.  If only 50% of the members in this particular portion made that monthly  $1 donation, if only as a demonstration of good faith personally, how much would be generated each month?  

I will answer that question.  More than can be justified.  I can easily say and believe that if this were the case, no one would have gotten an email from me or seen any such post asking for help this week from me.  There would be no need for it.  However, I don't push the Tradition line down your throats, in order to get monthly funds.  Instead, when I need help financially, I put it out there, (which is usually once, maybe twice a year) and I simply ask that those with the financial resources to "seek your own heart".  There is not any requirement or threat attached to the request.

11.  Lastly, and in closing I think it is important that I address personal accountability.   My life today, as a result of working and living the 12 steps and traditions as spiritual prinicples to live by, is a open book.  I am more than glad and willing to share with those who make a donation, a full record of what has been recieved by all members of Miracles In Progress collectively, and how it has been utilized or what it is targeted for.  However, I would surely refrain from and outright refuse such disclosure to any one who hasn't submitted a dime.  In that case it is none of their business or concern, for they haven't made any investment in anything to be accounted for to them.

I truly do realize and understand that my story of woe, and hardship can be matched by most people.  I didn't put it out here as a "one up on ya" challenge.  Quite frankly, I spoke of only the immediate need, not what just sits over my head in the background.  That has no bearing on what is needed to just keep my nose above water and be able to actually breath, instead of suck air.  Secondly, what I am asking for, is not simply to meet on own needs but to be able to give that man in a MIP recovery home who would be put out tomorrow for not being able to pay some rent a better chance, then my own economics could allow.  Or let the man who is reaching out for help, to not dail a disconnected phone number.

If these motive(s) are disturbing to your senses, I hope you will stick around long enough to get past yourself and start becoming a contributor, instead of simply a consumer in the dance of life, and when you have done all you can, given all you've got, and you finally reach out for help, you get beat up by those who don't think outside the box... then you will one day feel the way I do today.  Then and only then might you fully understand what is being said here.

To those who reached back to me, with a donation or simply warm words of support and encouragement, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.  A little bit can go a long way.

As someone said to me last night on the phone.. "it's amazing that all these people trust you enough to keep this site up and going, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, but would so much as question if you can be trusted with a dollar each month that they voluntarily donate on their own accord without having to be asked for it.  Or question if you would be a good steward to the gift that is donated."

My reply was simply, "They don't know how much I like to sleep at night, live within my skin comfortably each day, and look at myself in a mirror either."

John

John,

I couldn't agree more with Hotrod or could I have said it better.

HUGS,
RLC

Hello John,

My profile says i have been here since December of 2005, in truth I was here long before that first lurking, then with a different name for 3 or 4 posts and wandered back to my life only to return without memory of my original nickname to MIP a few months later. My reason for pointing that out is because I remember somewhere in the beginning reading a post of yours that spoke of setting up an account with one of the bookstores so that if I accessed the book store through this site a small percentage of the sales came back to help support it. I read that post, could feel the excitement, hope and promise of ... well, a miracle in progress I guess. I wanted to click that button so bad to be a part of something that had a little shred of good in it but I couldn't financially and promised myself I would someday. Well it is years later and even though I only use the AlAnon message board, my visual aid equipment conflicts with the chat and meeting area and I am pretty sure I will never live in an MIP recovery home, I consider every component of MIP to be my family and I am no longer digging in the couch cushions for a dollar in change to put in the basket at a meeting but I still have not clicked that button. I am sorry I forgot. Thank you for following the call to create MIP, the devotion to keeping it going and courage to make hard decisions.

Jen