I just asked this question recently! I'm confused by it in ways......those who have been sober since they were in their early 20's because they drank or drugged out of control and believe they are an alc or addict and then decide they need to stop and they do.........but then those same people can suddenly pick up a drink and drink normally or just socially 20 some years later.

I personally think those who are really true addicts, have a very very hard time licking their disease......either that or they dont truly want to? Those who can just 'quit' just like that or have no issues stopping and staying stopped, i personally question if they really do have the disease. I think those types of people are what make it hard for a true A, beacause they dont understand why they can't be that way, and then i think they try to strive to be that way, and cannot.

I know that we are not 'supposed' to anaylize it all, or worry about it, or label it...but come on...it's known as a family disease....and for those of us who are analyitcal thinkers or questioners, of course we are going to wonder! I dont see anything wrong with being curious about things!  That's just who I am......

Yes, there is a difference, alcoholism actually doesn't have anything to do with how much you drink or drank, alcoholism is like pregnancy, it just shows more in the later stages, and it doesn't give life, it takes life

an alcoholic can't drink moderately -or- stop drinking when they want to, someone can be -addicted- to alcohol, as in have the physical dependency, and still not be an alcoholic, what I mean by an alcoholic can't drink moderately is if an alcoholic drinks two drinks ten times, they can't say with any certainty what will happen at least a few times in those ten times, the alcohol will set up the "phenomenom of craving", we've all seen this, "may I have a drink please" <2 drinks later> "gimme a drink" <5 drinks later> "Gimme a F@$##ing drink and put some f#@@#%ing booze in it"

Drinkers can -drink- themselves into alcoholism, and personally I think it has to do with the number of genetic markers one has, for me I was like 90% already a "pickle" before I picked up my first drink, so I started drinking alcoholically within a year of my first drink, others can drink for fifty yers and never become an alcoholic, although they may drink a LOT, even daily

Alcoholism is an obsession of the mind coupled with an allergy of the body, the obsession of the mind works a few ways, first and foremost, alcoholism has a built in "forgetter" so the alcoholic literally can't bring into their mind with sufficient force the suffering and negative/adverse effects alcohol has upon them like remembering a hot stove will burn them, they say to themselves, it will be different this time, and here's how, and then the allergy of the body kicks in after alcohol is put into the system and they are off to the races

We were all born cucumbers, alcoholics have turned themselves into pickles, and once pickled can never be a cucumber again, the amount of alcohol required to turn each person into an alcoholic varies from person to person, although women and certain ethnic groups are especially vulnerable, although that rule is by no means hard and fast

The bottom line is an alcoholic is someone who as the obsession that they can control -AND- enjoy their drinking, but if an alcoholic is controlling their drinking they aren't enjoying it, and if they are enjoying their drinking they certainly aren't controlling it.

It's hard to tell sometimes if someone is an alcoholic based solely on the amount they drink, my father drank a case of beer every day for over 20 years, and those are the days he didn't party, I was -CERTAIN- he was an alcoholic, but one day he quit, he didn't drink for ten years, and now he drinks moderately (#@^#@^&%) he has 2 beers a day for a few months, then doesn't drink for a few months, then has a beer or two every day for a few months

He shows the ability to control his drinking, he enjoys the hell out of those two beers, and he shows the ability to quit, the three key "markers" of alcoholism

That is one of the biggest reasons Alanon doesn't require our "qualifier" to be a diagnosed alcoholic, but we are just someone who has been affected by someone else's drinking, because in the end of the day, their diagnosis is unimportant to our own recovery

but yes, a few years ago I went camping for 3 days with 16 of the men I used to party with in High school and my college years, I got sober shortly thereafter and made myself fairly tedious diagnosing them as alcoholics and trying to help them see the error of their ways, because if they drank with me they were most certainly alcoholic right?

every single one of those men whp partied like rock stars in their late teens and early twenties had grown up, had children, and not one of them was an alcoholic, I was with them in the woods camping for three days and this was a bachelor party...not one of them got drunk, the first night, a bottle of tequila came out and went around the fire, the second night, the same bottle went around the fire, the third night, the VERY SAME quart of tequila went around the fire...

OK, to put things in perspective, if I was drinking, that bottle of tequila wouldn't have lasted the first night, and as a bartending alcoholic I had an uncanny knack to get other people to drink with me, so:

there would have been a fist fight

two brothers would have fought and cried about who mom loved more

someone would have thrown up in their sleeping bag

and someone would have fallen in the fire

guaranteed

There is an "invisible line" inside each person that once we cross we can't go back, but the thing is, one can "drink alcoholically" for "X" amount of time and still not cross that line, and that line is different for all of us, for me, it was about 3 beers, for my father it was enough to sink the Royal Navy and he -STILL- didn't cross that line although he "drank alcoholically" for decades

so the easiest way for me to look at it is by the "pickle quotient"

can that person -control- -AND- enjoy their drinking, -NOT- Look at how much that person drinks

That is -ALSO- how someone can be suffering from "untreated alcoholism" and not have had a drink in years, non alcoholics quit drinking their problems go away, alcoholics quit drinking and their problems get worse, next thing you know they join alanon sites and give long winded answers about alcoholism in the middle of the night on alanon forums

When I first suspected my partner was an alcoholic he would convince me he wasn't.

I saw him drink without eating, taking vitamins instead of eating and any medication all washed down with alcohol. He felt stupid if he went to a pub and not drink anything alcoholic and would match other friends who drank more than he did.

He did manage to convince me. Because I have no experience with alcoholics before and didn't know any. Any alkies I've ever heard of were usually peoples abusive fathers etc. I painted a picture in my mind of an alkie always being drunk and lairy, smelling of it, no job, homeless and always in a right state and generally cause misery and unpleasantness wherever they go.

My partner was none of those things. I never saw him drunk, he had a respectable government job which he's been in for 14 years, always kept himself clean and was a great guy whom people warmed to instantly. Very chatty, confident and just your typical london cheeky chappy. everytime I see alfie Moon on eastenders I am reminded of him.

And that's why he managed to convince me for so long, because he certainly wasn't like any of the old typical alkies in the pub or park benches. Admittedly he didn't even drink that much, max 2 pints and that's it. there were worse people than he was.

He went in hospital coz he had a fit at work about 4 years ago. The doctor couldn't find a cause and just told me 15% of the population would just experience a seizure without any reason, so I took it as that. It was only last year that I learnt seizures was a sign of alcohol withdrawal. I honestly never knew. I thought alkies could go cold turkey.

Sorry to go on and on but in answer to your question, i think someone is an alcoholic when their body can not function without the booze, they sweat, shake or have a seizure. But i know I still have a lot to learn.