The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
So my mom comes over today to drop off some flowers. She starts talking about random stuff then the conversations turns to how she feels as a result of me not telling her what's going on in my life and, in particular, how I'm not sharing with her what I do and do not tell my daughter about what's going on with my husband.
My mom NEEDS to know what my daughter knows - Does my daughter know that my AH is in a sober living home, have I talked to her about where we are moving and wheather or not AH is coming to live with us ect.. blah blah blah. (my AH is my daughter's step dad in her life since she was 4 - I share custody of my daughter (who's 11) with her biological dad).
ok, I probably should have gotten up and removed myself from the situation. my bad. SHould have said "ok, well time to plant those flowers, see ya tomorrow" but the conversation started off so light and before I knew it my mom was in full blown panic/temper tantrum mode.
I have made progress, I stayed calm the entire time, never getting upset or raising my voice. (this is HUGE progress for me... HUGE. It was so hard at first and now it's almost natural for me to remain calm and not fly off the handle like I used to.
I feel bad, not AS bad and guilty as I used to feel when things like this have happened in the past, no where close, but, I suppose I'm hurt because the nature of our relationship saddens me at times.
My daughter and my AH and I (before we were married) lived with my parents. We moved out when my daugher was 7-8 and my parents are very involved grandparents... I don't want to come off as sounding like their relashionship is so unique....but, in some ways, it is. Or, maybe that's just my mom feeling some entitlement or me justifying away.
My mom thinks I'm a bad mom, or I could be a better mom if I did this more or that less,- of course she doesn't say this, but, through her actions and words, it's how I feel.
My mom said: "you sometimes don't come home from work till 6:00 - then you only see your daughter till 9:00 cause then she goes to bed, that's only 3 hours!".
I swear my mom had this completely warped twisted idea of what goes on in my house.
Then my mom goes on to say how she was talking to the wife of a good friend they went to visit, and this wife used to my married to an A... and this wife went to alanon and said alanon is bad for these reasons.... and then my mom tells me how she went to alanon 20 years ago cause she was engaged to an A, then her sister married one!! I'm thinking..... WHHATT??!! Come again now...??
Ok, so now I'm getting a clear family history. throw me up in a text book and time to study me.
My brain is all over the place right now - as you can probably tell from this post.
My mom tells me she doesn't agree with how in alanon they do this and that and they "push" for this and that. Basically everything she stated is the exactly opposite of what alanon 'does'. I pointed this out... I think she thinks I'm delusional. I let it go.
Then my mom starts going on about how she needs to know what I've told my daughter because my daugher says things and my mom doesn't know how to reply (this has come up before).
I told my mom that if she doesn't know, she can say she doesn't know and leave me to deal with 'it' with my daugher. (I honestly think my mom makes this stuff up...she makes up that my daughter was crying about this and wanted to talk about that....I think she's lying...or exagerating alot).
I asked for an example.
My mom goes on to say how they were all getting my bday present engraved and my mom wrote "from mom, dad sister and daugher and niece" - then my daughter asked: "and from AH's name?" - and my mom replied: "no not this time, just from us".
Like what mom, if you knew all this stuff would it have made a world of positive difference if you added: "no, just from us this time, not AH, cause he's an A and lives in a sober living home and he's doing this and that right now" ???
It's just very very hard to have these conversations with my mom - it's like she can't make any sense and reaches and grasps at straws to have a point.
She said: "well, what if in alanon a wife was so distraught and depressed that she wasn't feeding or taking care of her kids!? How would the other alanon members even know unless that wife told them? Only the family would know!" --- I felt like my mom was implying I go there and lie to everyone and only my family knows how truly f'ed up I am. I told her that alanon people know me better that anyone else and that I've never (gradually) been so deeply honest in my life, because, for the first time in my life, I don't feel judged/critisized ect. She thinks I'm lying. whatever.
It ended with me catching her in a quasi lie...
I said: "ok, well first you told me that my daughter asks you all these questions and wants to talk to you about all this stuff, but you don't know what to say,..... and now you are telling me that I should be concerned because my daughter doesn't say anything to you .... so does she or does she not talk too much or not enough?".
My mom threw her arms up in the air, groaned and said "that's it! I've had enough... I'm out of here" then she stormed away and left my house.
I sometimes think I should distance myself from my family - find somewhere else for my daugher to go before and after school. But, then I get sad or I think how grateful I am to have a family who cares so much and loves me ... and what if I distance myself then god forbid something happens to one of my parents and I live in regret for the rest of my life?!! Plus, my daugher, despite being annoyed at lots of stuff that goes on at my parents house, she does really like going there to play with her niece...
ugh.
My husband and I go to therapy with a counsellor that we got hooked up with through the rehab center he was at. I'm going to ask if there is some kind of extended family counselling.
I don't feel like I can just distance myself, I don't want to and I don't want to take my daughter's grandparents and her niece away from her.....
And, although I think it may have been best if I didn't engage in the beginning and just walked away from the conversation - I KNOW my mom would have followed me, or later called and left a message crying, or an email, or came over and it just wouldn't have eneded there... she will never give up.
I asked my mom to respect the fact that I'm an adult, and to trust that I can handle things and have my daughter's best interest at heart and to please leave my business to me. Nope - by virtue of being grandma and being a big part of my daugher's life - she sees everything as her business and has many justifications on HOW this is all her business - as far fetched and nonsensical as most of them are.
I said: "mom, everyone, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, people at the grocery store, everyone tells me how wonderful and sweet my daughter is, how good of a job I've done... And all I hear from you guys is how I should do this and that better... I feel like I'm never good enough in your eyes".
Her response: "well Danielle, part of why and how your daugher became who she is, is because she grew up with so much love around her, with all her family, with 4 generations in the home".
It's like she wants to take all this credit for my lovely daughter.
I really do think I'm on my way to not caring so much what others think of me, or I know I'm making progress at least, it's not even that, I'm more frustrated and sad. With all the crap going on in my life, I just wish this wasn't tacted on to the list. I wish my mom could just accept me for who I am, let me be me and quit trying to indirectly passively agressively control everything - although, she doesn't even recognize that's what she's doing.
ok... well, if you got this far, thanks for reading:)
I should really share more positive stuff on here - there has been plenty!
-- Edited by danielle0516 on Friday 20th of May 2011 10:30:52 PM
I just wanted to say (((HUGS))) and know you are not unique! Many of those words your mom said sound just like my step-mother and my bf's mom. My bf's mom will go on and on about how we don't appreciate what they have "done" for us all the time. That they do so much and we never can seem to thank you enough times. If we don't call or text his parents for a few days, they are texting "why didn't you contact us in SO LONG". All I can say is I am a very independent person, I have lived on my own since I was 18. I don't contact my own parents that often maybe once a week. So anyway, what I am trying to get at, is that some parents don't seem to know when or how to let go and let us live our lives. I think it comes with boundary setting from us (you and I) to stop the insanity of their trying to control us with questions, which then send us into our own disease.... I am learning about setting boundaries and what works and what doesn't. Thanks for your share, I read the whole thing and I totally identify. I am glad I found alanon and it found me :) Take care, --youfoundme
__________________
-youfoundme
Let go and let God...Let it be... let it begin with me...
I agree, Alcoholism is certainly a Family Disease. The interaction that you described is very familiar. Just remember that when one person in the family gets healthy, by attending meetings and changing, the entire family dynamic changes.
Keep goiing to your meetings, use your new tools. Remember to detach, do not engage and take care of you
I found alanon tools are my new way of life in business, home and with friends They are the principles by which I interact with the world and they work
Keep coming back
-- Edited by hotrod on Saturday 21st of May 2011 09:12:42 AM
Hi Danielle I can relate to your story with your mom Set boundaries will help and as u said keep the conversation to safe topics! One of the things I have learned here is to apply do not justify argue defend or explain yourself it's a good tool Family support is very important and u recognize the value as for al anon if ppl think it's not working or valuable that's their opinion but it's your recovery not theirs Take one thing at a time :)
Dear Danielle0516, boy, do I relate to the frustration and how sick you feel after this type of encounter with family.
I don't know your mother, of course, but I'm willing to bet that she is not very good at sharing her TRUE fears and scary feelings---and works them out as criticizing, trying to control, and various passive-aggressive manuevers. I'll also bet that she knows exactly where your "hot buttons" are and how to push them. Did you notice how many others relate to this!!! Mother-daughter relationships are so complicated sometimes and conflicts can shiver us down to our very bones.
I come from a very strict and JUDGEMENTAL family myself. I have had to struggle with this most of my life. I think it is a process we all go through to rid/cope with the toxic effects of what our predecesors have foisted upon us.
I think you care enough to be doing a good job bearing up under your whole situation.
My suggestion is to listen to the oldtimers in al-anon and keep on keeping on!
Best wishes, Otie
-- Edited by Otie on Saturday 21st of May 2011 09:55:35 AM
"I wish my mom could just accept me for who I am, let me be me and quit trying to indirectly passively agressively control everything... "-danielle
Why not try doing this to your mother - in other words - accept her exactly as she is, controlling and passive aggressive. Let her be that way, learn to detach with love from (fixing) her behavior and take actions that allow you to feel your own respect. Controllers are always upset and we act like that too - when we dont accept them and wish they would change, they wont. I wished my mom would change and I stared at her life and her life's choices - waiting for things to be different, this is our insanity.
I give her respect and dignity now by not rushing to fix or help her, nor do I listen to it when she is critical and disrespectful to me - I identify that as "the disease" and I detach from the behavior and the attitudes that other people have. I am entitled to my own mind, my own reasons/motivations for my own change - and that is no one else's business.
I learned early on in program - to only discuss and share my program with other alanons. People that dont want to take responsibility and change what they can- dont get it. That is ok, not everyone has to get it. The fact that I have more self respect now, is reason enough - the fact tha when I applied program tools, and saw the positive results I got when I worked it - was proof it did/does work for me. Who cares what they think? It is not my business and I certainly cant change how they operate. I have peace and serenity now bc I do finally accept who and how they are - and I no longer feel compulsed to help them, to explain or defend myself.
Put a boundary around answering a demand from anyone - just bc they try to pick on us to start a fight - it does not mean I have to listen and participate in that drama that sucks my energy and good feelings. We have nothing to prove to them.
Boundary negative or rude or hateful language. When you hear it, you can detach from believing any of it is the truth. See, this is how my stepd dad would hurt me- he would say, "you are no good" or "this is your fault" or whatver negative thing it was - I used to hear it and say, yes its true, im a loser (in my head) and now I choose to not belive anything that is said to hurt my feelings -bc that is what it is designed to do - to hurt me. Learning to love me first and not hear what they projected onto me, helped me to love me and not reject loving me based on what others do/say.
Accept them how they are and when they attempt to manipulate you - you can identify that and say - that is the disease trying to get my goat, step back from it, LOL at it and say, "I see you like bait" and see the dancing hooks trying to get you on the line. See a neon sign or whatever - just know you have the choice to not be manipulate-able. It is a game of sucking power via blame - choose to let them be victims of their own games and stop interfering with the consequences they face.
As I stepped back "from helping" my resentments fell away and I was no longer giving them something to resent me for, for being involved in their "junk". Bc they do resent our two cents, as soon as we say what we would do or think, then they have another new different attack for that. So dont offer them solutions - let them figure it out.
By not sharing emotionally vulnerable info with them about us anymore - what that does is it allows us to not be so extremely open to allowing them at our vulnerable spots. I was told to turn my "buttons" into zippers. To disallow them such easy and direct access to mortally wound us. I have to agree to give them that power over me. As a child, we do what we think works (in the manipulation) to get by easier & less painfully-however that plays out - usually by giving into it and taking their blame/attacks personally. All this does is hurt you and allows you to be in the disease with them and emotionally enmeshed.
As I set boundaries with myself and my family (about certain topics, for example- meaning if she talks about how you mother - dont listen to it. Just bc they say something, that does not make it true. You can even try saying, 'u may have a point about this' or 'I will consdier that and get back to you' then change the subject and refuse to get on said topic). I have boundaries about people demanding questions of me - bc in the past I would get the fear reaction and then start compulsively answering their demands. Now, I have more self respect than that - if you demand it, I dont have to answer. I respond to kindness and I do have manners and if I am not treated with dignity, I dont react. I respond by taking care of me, not them. I am my own job and I am the only person I can control and change.
Life is not personal. Our lives are merely a consequence of the choices we make. Happiness and peace are inside jobs -and- they are an individual choice. How they want to feel and express themselves ~ is their choice. Al-anon is all about YOU. Recovery is self discovery! Take no prisoners.
-- Edited by kitty on Saturday 21st of May 2011 01:45:23 PM
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Hi Danielle, I laughed and groaned reading your share and wondered if we share the same Mom. Okay I know we don't, but I have had similar conversations. I live across the country from my Mom now and it is hard for me to even relate to her anymore. I wish we lived closer now that I am gaining tools that could help me to love her through some of our past. At the same time my exAH lives close and I still have a hard time using the tools in the heat of it. I hand them both to my HP lots and love them for who they are, but understand to keep myself sane I have to have dettachment and maybe distance for now. I love what kitty wrote and the others shadow me in saying I wish this was unique.
__________________
God grant me the serenity To accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
Danielle - you have done so much better than I ever did with my Mum (who died 20 years ago). She was an alcoholic and so controlling and interfering in my life. She used to try to come between me and my husband (who wasn't alcohol dependant back then) and make me feel so guilty if I didn't ring or visit her as much as she thought I should - and so much more stuff I won't bore you with. I never did have the strength to stand up to her - so well done you.
Indeed. You described my mom to a tee. I think I stated that to you in another post when you were talking about her. If my mom is worried about something, it will come out of her mouth with no tact and no regard for feelings of others. Her anxiety and need to control overshadows everything. One thing is for sure...I could never change my mom and you can't change yours. You sound like you are doing great not taking it so personal and recognizing you are a grown up making your own choices. It's hard not to let our parents reduce us to the same fearful children who always needed approval.
Just remember Danielle...To thine own self be true.
ok...so more people with moms like mine. I needed the reminder, thanks again everyone;)
Kitty, thanks for taking the time for that long info filled response - I will keep trying to take my own advise and let my mom be who she is. Although I don't realize it at the time, I know that by me explaining things, instead of not engaging, I am trying to 'fix' her... or convince her to see it my way, or get her to understand me (still kind of needing her approval for some reason). EXACTLY what she is doing to me.
When my mom was going off about all the negative things these other people thought about Alanon, and about her friend who thinks it is the alcoholic's fault because he had a choice ect.. I could have just said: "to each their own" instead of a long explanation of why I believe what I believe! I pray next time I will have the awareness and strength to just let it be and not engage!
