Could someone please give clarification? - Al-Anon Family Group

Otie · Senior Member

Could someone please give clarification?

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

I believe that only an alcoholic can classify himself as an alcoholic because that person is the only person that truly knows what goes on in his or her head. The big book talks about types of drinkers - for example, heavy drinkers - and says that people may cross the line between heavy drinking and alcoholism. Once they cross the line, they can't go backwards. I may or may not be able to differentiate between what is heavy drinking and what is alcoholism, though, if I'm not the one experiencing the craving.

I noticed that both AA and Al-Anon have very broad qualifications for membership. In AA, you need only the desire to stop drinking. In Al-Anon, you need only be affected by someone else's drinking. We can certainly be affected by someone else's drinking regardless of whether that person is an alcoholic or not - so I'm not sure the label even really matters for purposes of working my own program. I just feel like the drinker should be the one to take his or her own inventory and decide whether "alcoholic" is accurate.

Any of the alcoholics I refer to in my posts have classified themselves, so I feel okay in describing them as alcoholics.

This is just my .02 - take what you like and leave the rest.

:) Summer

-- Edited by White Rabbit on Monday 16th of May 2011 01:35:02 PM

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi, Otie. I am going to give a completely amateur opinion here, so see what others say also! My guess about why people say "Only an alcoholic can say whether he's an A or not" is because sometimes we get tangled up in definitions -- "Is he one? Isn't he one?" Whereas the truth is that if someone's drinking is causing a problem for us, we might benefit from going after our own recovery, regardless of whether he "is" or "isn't."

To my mind, it sure is easy to say, "Well, there's one!" There's also the saying, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..." But then there are the cases where people say, "But he holds on to a high-powered job... but he never gets drunk before noon ... but he ..." Are those people alcoholics? I'd probably say yes, but I think the real answer is that the exact definition is irrelevant. If alcohol is causing him problems, he could benefit from going into recovery. If it's causing us problems, we could benefit from recovery.

I'll be interested to hear the perspective of others.

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree that only he knows if he is alcoholic or not ,what matters for me is how it affects you when he drinks . Al-Anon is the only place I learned that I was not the problem ,nothing I did worked because I was trying to solve a problem that was his to fix . Our focus here is on us , we are the only people we have any control over . It says in our opening that changed attitides can aide recovery ,they dont mean his they mean ours . for me this prog was the best way to support them , here l learned to respect my husb again and find some understanding of the dilema he was dealing with and leave it with him where it belonged , I have a right to tell him that his drinking is causing me a problem and then I have to be responsible enough to let it go . Lectures dont work , tears dont work , trying to shame them dosent work ,the only thing that worked for me was to step aside , mind my own business and allow him the dignity to live his life the way he chose and the beauty of this prog for me was I didnt have to leave my marriage to do it .

youfoundme · ~*Service Worker*~

From Abbyal:
"Lectures dont work , tears dont work , trying to shame them dosent work ,the only thing that worked for me was to step aside , mind my own business and allow him the dignity to live his life the way he chose and the beauty of this prog for me was I didnt have to leave my marriage to do it ."

Thank you Abbyal! That is the message I am getting from my HP, that nothing works, and I can mind my own business and give my bf the right to his own life. Thank you!!!

As for if I call him an A or not...well usually I just say BF here. It is not up to me to label him. I would feel awful if I saw him posting on message boards about his alanonic girlfriend... And I don't broadcast it to others in real life either, that he is an alcoholic or an addict. its not my place to do so. Just my thought on it....

-- Edited by youfoundme on Monday 16th of May 2011 02:18:27 PM

member922 · Senior Member

My "smoking" A once in a great while admits he has a problem. Mostly just justifies it with his "reasonable" explanations. I have made my own opinion on the matter. I will call him that even though he doesn't admit it. I think he knows, but he won't do anything about it, so why would he fess up? Just my opinion.

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

Interesting question ...

I refer to my exAH in that manner because he has freely admitted his addictions. And I do not read the A as alcoholic but as addicted due to my experiences, I guess. And when I write of other A's in my life it is because they have said the addiction existed. But ...

I have a client at work who has never said he is alcoholic that I have pretty much come to the conclusion is. 10AM appointments in close quarters that smells like the bottom of an old bottle and he shakes, afternoon appointments smell like a fresher bottom of a bottle and no shakes, unpaid bills, 3rd DUI. Pretty strong indicators of an alcohol problem and what I would consider alcoholic behavior if I were watching for red flags under other circumstances. I would never ask or say anything on this topic to him but I do categorize my clients in my mind, golfer, baker, reader, diabetic, animal lover, addict, quilter, had heart surgery, musician ... I am a little confused on this topic too. I know it is not my place to inform anyone they might be alcoholic but I also have to be aware that when it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... it's a duck.

Am curious to se what others have to say.

Jen

-- Edited by Jennifer on Monday 16th of May 2011 05:44:29 PM

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Otie,
I don't know if this will be helpful.
My husband quit drinking cold turkey when I asked him if he were going to continue because I needed to plan my life.
A few years later, he was going through mouthwash with alcohol in it as if dental hygiene were his number one priority. With the behaviors one would expect. And he was saying that he didn't think he was an alcoholic.
My therapist helped me coerce him into coming in for a visit. He gave him a test. He answered three or more of the questions "yes." One of them was "have you ever had blackouts?"
The therapist told him he was an alcoholic, and he's never been in denial about that again. He went to AA meetings for about a year and that helped him to really understand.
So, at least in the 80s, some professionals were using an objective test and were comfortable with saying, "You are an alcoholic."
And that was helpful for us.
He has only ever gone through dry drunks since then, and fewer as time passes. We observed that he could get pretty crazy if he drank a lot of fruit juice or had too much sugar. He was in denial about that for a time, but I wrote him a letter (he's very visual) and said, "If I told you I have observed that when you eat broccoli, you break out in purple spots, would you think that was something to perhaps be open to, or would you just deny that such a thing ever happens?" He isn't in denial about sugar anymore.
And just in passing, he says he has totally lost the desire to drink.
He caught it early, before it had messed up his ability to think. And we are so grateful for that. He says I saved his life. He's the one who decided that his family and his life and his career were more important to him than drinking. And he could quit--just like that. He quit smoking cigarettes in one day the first time he tried. It took me a year with the filters and finally a killer case of the flu to stop smoking. And right now I'm hooked on Coca Colas. We are so fortunate that he could and would quit and that I never could drink worth anything.
And I have no doubt that if he were to take up drinking today, he'd be just like he was, except decades down the road. And I think it would kill him very quickly.
Blessings,
Temple

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Otie...for me...Only the alcoholic can identify themself as alcoholic is about the alcoholic accepting responsibility for the condition and the treatment. Other knowledgeable people including family members can use the term to describe a person with the disease as it manifest itself if of course they have the knowledge and awareness. It's okay and I use to preface my statement with "from my experience..." Calling another person "an alcoholic" without awareness and experience can cause much more harm than it could help.

For me also...Alcoholism is a disease not a person. I haven't used the term "an" alcoholic for decades. I use the short term "alcoholic" only. There are soooo many characteristics which define people good and not so...however most of the characteristics that define "an" alcoholic are bad and negative. When I think about my alcoholic exwife and what she was like? I start with child of God and then proceed thru the good arriving and the negative if it helps another person to understand. My exwife "had/has" a disease...she isn't "a" disease.

How I do it helps me keep balance. Hope this has been supportive. ((((hugs)))) smile

-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 16th of May 2011 06:37:14 PM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

In my experience, yes I know when someone is an addict or has a serious drug problem.

The A however, is the one who needs to face they are an addict. We cannot point that out for them.Does that make sense?

hugs, how ya doing? love,deb

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

The only reason this statement exists is so that AA and Alanon stay in line with being programs of attraction. We don't want to do around pointing fingers and "rescuing" alcoholics who don't want help. Yes, it makes sense to call a spade a spade when it's obvious, but both programs are there for people who WANT it.

Otie · Senior Member

Hey Guys! Thank you so much for taking your time to explain the reasons behind this practice. You have given me better perspective on this --and I feel better.

I am with the rest of you in that I am not fond of tossing labels around unnecessarily. I feel very strongly that any addiction is only one aspect of a person and I think that it is cruel and dehumanizing to speak of a person as if that were their defining feature.

I agree that alcoholism is a disease --not a whole person.

Gratefully, Otie

Otie · Senior Member

Thanks, pinkchip. This makes a lot of sense.

Love, Otie

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

Otie,

I only refer to my alcoholic as one because they have identified themselves as such. Through the years I have found it to be true that alcoholism is a self identifiable disease. The magic happens when one AA relates their drinking experience to another person to see whether or not the program is right for them.

I feel the same is true for Alanon. I think that is why most groups suggest a newcomer attend six or more meetings before making a decision as to whether or not Alanon is for them. I was only able to feel like I was part of the group not an outsider when I listened to the similarities not the differences. Then and only then did I know I belonged.

flopadopilus · ~*Service Worker*~

Funny on how judgemental I am about people who are heavy drinkers and I just make an assumption. My AH has admitted it after 15 years together on and off I came to know it. But yes I maybe should start minding my own business when it comes to others drinking habits. I love this share, lots of food for thought. My HP works through others words very often these days!

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

My sister's kid has a hearing problem, I could tell the first time I heard her speak after moving back to where most of my family lives. It would have been caught by the school system but they home school. It was really obvious to me, an outsider, that something wasn't right with the way she was hearing things - spoke like tweety-bird at ten years of age. I tried to suggest it to my sister and mother - it brought on defensive, prove me wrong type of behavior. "see, she heard you, she doesn't have a problem".

It's really hard to get people to admit anything is wrong with them, and alcoholism, well, that's a degenerate's diseases! Alcoholics are those guys who sit under bridges or beg at street corners that we don't give money to because we KNOW they will just go buy booze, right?

I have an eating disorder, and the first step to overcoming it is to acknowledge it - same with alcoholism - they have to acknowledge that THEY have a problem - which is where the "only the addict/alcoholic can say whether they are or not" comes in. I can tell my H that I think he's an alcoholic but until he acknowledges it, he will do nothing about it - doesn't mean I won't think of him as an alcoholic in the meantime. My sister's kid still has a hearing problem, I have an eating disorder and my H is an alcholic - these are all facts, whether acknowledged or not.

cmarie · Newbie

@YOUFOUNDME:

I am new to this message board and would really like to know what forum that quote from Abbeyhal is from?

It really resignated with me and opened up a new outlook and I would just like to read other posts related to it.

sdisnie · Senior Member

This is a great question with some good answers!! Thanks for referring me to it.......

So here's where the crazy debating anaylzing mind of mine comes in to play........so we can call someone an alcoholic if they admit it, but then what happens when they later deny it, we can no longer call them an A anymore? Then there's the whole thing about it being a disease....well if thats the case, then why can't we address it for what it is? If someone is a diabetic, they can be called a diabetic.....get what I'm saying? Yes, my mind drives me nuts, I debate things with myself often.
But a very good question!! Thank you!

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