I don't even know how to begin...when I started Al-anon/working on my codependency issues I sat down with my sponsor and he asked me "So what's going on?"

and I told him a story like yours, full of heartbreak and betrayal and blah blah blah blow by blow I went on and on and on and he finally said "STOP!!!!!"

get out your pen and paper and write this down

"This -bleep- has got to stop!" bleep = poop but not so polite

So I did...and something happened, I mean REALLY happened

she didn't appear once on that list, all the reasons I needed to stop having this stuff go round and round and round and round in my head...had nothing to do with her

I had caught her in lies, then through a series of events coupled with me catching her lying to me was CONVINCED she was cheating on me, and then my mind went to town and I went insane, I don't know if I made her insane or she made me insane, but we most certainly went insane together, it was the most toxic relationship I had ever been in, to this day I don't know what came first, the chicken or the egg, she says me, I say her, all I know is it went BAD, then it got worse

none of it mattered

it was all stories in my head, super hard to explain but the whole quote is this:

People hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we find we invariably made decisions based on self that placed us in a position to be hurt

If I focus on the problem, the problem increases, if I focus on the solution, the solution increases, and for me, "the story" was "the problem" and the stuff I wrote on that list was "the solution"

it was a list of reasons I wanted my sanity back, when I focused on the story there was no answers...insanity is contagious, like Shakespeare said "On That Path lies madness"

I went my seperate way, she went hers, I worked the steps with a sponsor and immersed myself in recovery from my codependency, when we broke up she got sober, worked the steps, and immersed herself into recovery for her codependency...a few years later we got back together...it lasted a few months and we took another break but without all the drama, heartbreak, finger pointing and poison emails, just "this isn't working for me" and went our seperate ways...

maybe six months later we tried again....it's like dating the "good version" of the person I met, you know what I mean? That person we all know is there and wish would come back?

She acts different because I act different, and I act different because she acts different

Insanity is standing in front of another person and explaining the defintion of insanity to them for the thousandth time (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results)

who's the crazy one?

Insanity is trying to control another person to be the person I want them to be

Inasanity is yelling at an alcoholic for blaming everyone else for their actions while I blame them for mine, yelling at them for blameshifting and telling them they are the reason I act the way I do, yelling at them for not taking responsibility for their actions while I blame my actions on them

Insanity is telling my alcoholic "nothing changes if nothing changes" 800 times and expecting her to be the one that changes, telling her SHE is the insane one

Insanity was blaming my alcoholic for lying and manipulating when in fact everything I was doing was some form or another of behavior modification, which is manipulation, usually passive aggressive

Insanity is an inability to even SEE what I am feeling and when people ask me how I am doing telling them about her and her misconducts and misdeeds

Insanity was displaying every single character defect I was accusing her of having and then blaming them on her

I had lost who I was, I had gone insane, which leads us to step 2

The only way back for me was to find a good sponsor and work ALL the steps

step zero "this bleep has got to stop"

step one I am powerless over alcohol (no matter who drinks it) other people, and my life and my brain are unmanageable

step two came to believe that working the steps could restore me to sanity, because I was bonkers, Donald Rumsfeld wouldn't go hunting with me he was too scared

then after I worked the steps around my codependency I started zeroing in on what it was exactly I was addicted to....like...unhealthy relationships, and why did I keep replaying relationships from my childhood? not just picking emotionally unavailable women but MAKING them that way, then I could point my finger and say "See? I was right!"

We create our own reality, and I had to learn how to create a new one

working the steps

Codependent No More Melody Beatty

Facing Love Addiction Pia Mellody

and over at our MIP coda forum thats the stuff we are looking at, not "our alcoholic" but ourselves, or codependent behaviors, our relationship addictions and insanities, our lifelong family of origin patterns we keep repeating

without working the steps with a sponsor I would still be insane, because if nothing changes, nothing changes, and I needed to change my mind because my old thinking was going to kill me

People tell you who they are, but we ignore it - because we want them to be who we want them to be.

We're flawed, because we want so much more. We're ruined, because we get these things, and wish for what we had.

then comes insanity, there's a way back, but I needed, and got, help

a lot of help, because I couldn't do it alone, face to face meetings, a sponsor, and working the steps

-- Edited by linbaba on Thursday 21st of April 2011 01:35:11 AM

There are a couple of things I carry around with me on a daily basis that I have heard....one is.....when someone shows you who they are believe them..the first time...

The other is..when the ticket has the destination stamped on it, why are you surprised when you arrive there.........

 

When we are hurt, it is instinctive to believe that focusing attention and care to the injury is going to help. In this circumstance, it does not help. Focusing on how your are hurt, injured, and also on the other person as the cause will only result in more hurt and injury.

The best way to reduce the resentment and anger is to live your life well. F2F meetings are good, but so is going to the gym, going to church, going out with friends, taking a class at the local university... Embrace life and live it fully. Your exes' existance and choices are limited by alcohol. Yours are not. Be grateful and BE FREE!

All of this is in your perception. You can choose to feel betrayed or you can congratulate yourself on the wise move of ending the relationship and be grateful to the ex that you have come to realize you deserve better in life and he was dragging you down.

Drummerchck

I know what your going thru, when my XAH that I was married too for 26 years finally sat me down and told me he was having an off and on again affair for
10 years , I was blindsided and that also she had given birth to twins that were already one year old, I was devastated.

It took me two years to absorb it all, all the years that I was there for him , thinking and hoping the drinking would get better and now this.

What I finally did realize was the depth of his disease , that he was many personalities to many people, that he had blackouts, that he said he didnt love this woman and didnt know why
he was even with her, in the end he ended up hating her and he had nothing to do with the twins, which is there fortune, because he was crazy drunk all the time.

I had to look inside myself and see what my part was, I was not innocent. I stopped having sex with him before the affair, sometimes I didnt love him and just looked to my own
selfish needs, why couldnt he get sober for me and straighten up and be a husband. I was in Alanon but still needed to grow. I really didnt believe it was a disease. His affair, was
my growth as a human being. Although I did make my boundaries, it was important that I get over my anger and hatred of the man. We were separated for two years when he called
to tell me he was too weak and didnt know what was wrong with him, I call 911, they broke down the door and what they found was a pretty gruesome scene,
that he had ruptured his esophagus and he almost bled to death, I had to go to the hospital to sign for procedures because he couldnt, he awoke 3 days later, after 40 pints of blood
had been given, the Drs. were amazed that he survived. Sitting in the hospital, my daughter was there and she said " I dont think hes going to make it." I told her, "watch him", for the
first time I really saw his HP and his path, that no matter how much we may love or try to control thinking we know whats best, we cannot compete with another persons destiny and HP, they have one, as sure as we do. He still continued to drink beer only, but today not even a year later , he is in sober living and has a new job for 4 months, first time sober in his life.

For an alcoholic the most important thing they must do in their life is to be sober. There is nothing or nobody that will do that for them. Your love is not enough, their children is not enough, their job is not enough, money and fame are not enough, NOTHING, unless their is a devine intervention and or they are ready. As the woman and men involved with an alcoholic, that doesnt change our love for them or our concern, but when it becomes a need then we become damaged in the process.

I find the acceptance of this disease and this man is where my anger dissapated, I realized that every action done by the alcoholic, did not begin and end with me.

I realized that Alanon is about Me and only Me , not him.

I wish you all the best drummerchick, practice, practice practice. Luv, Bettina

-- Edited by Bettina on Thursday 21st of April 2011 06:57:24 PM

Boundaries with the ex A were always a battle for me.  He had many many enmeshed relationships with co workers, friends, his family, his bosses, his former girlfriend was firmly out of the picture. 

For me now I see the issues with relationships were all about him.  I definitely had my share of enmeshed relationships with people while I was with him.  The issue was he didn't have any issue with them.  He wasn't obsessed with them in the way I was about his relationships.  He cared certainly but his obsession was with alcohol, mine was with him....

Boundary crossing seems to be an alcoholic forte.  Certainly I had my own share of boundary merging, boundary crossing, boundary blow ups before I hit al anon.  I had a lot of opinions about what what others did but no idea really what I "did" when I was around people. 

I found myself in absolute total over reaction to everything the ex A did not just because his behavior was outrageous (it was) and abusive (it was) but because he was my entire world.  I made him the center of my existence.  Without him I felt empty and lost and bereft.  I had to come to al anon to connect with people who cared (I am sure at a certain point the ex A did but the alcoholism took that from him).  I had to make myself the center of my existence.  I also had to work on my own boundaries and become aware when others crossed the line with me, when they first did it rather than when them trampled all over me (the ex A certainly did the boundary crossing early but it was subtle, nuanced and quite quite calculated).  I was always so confused, astonished and shocked when people did that, I could not read cues and I certainly never saw any of it coming!  Now I'm not, now I'm aware and that's a gift of the program.  Do people still cross boundaries with me certainly but they dont get a lot of chances to do it more than once or twice, nope and it isnt because I live an wonderful life!   The ex A stomped all over me for 7 years, he stomped on my birthdays, holidays, finances, our home he took it all and he certainly played out a different picture to others about how I was than the one he told me.  I had no idea how to "respond".  I had some strange idea that ranting and raving was "responding" when it was even more bonding to his way of relating.  I had no idea how to detach and reflect.  I just drowned in the pain.

I'm so glad you are here now.  Of course you have every reason to be upset at the lies, manipulation and the skewed sense of not knowing.  I lived my entire time with the ex A wondering, trying to find out, looking at his phone, trying to get a picture of what he was doing.  I was absolutely obsessed, fed up, drained and outraged.  Detaching was such a hard job for me.  Letting go was incredibly hard. 

This is a phenomenal board, his is a place where you can get to know others who have been where you are.  This is also a place where its "safe" to say what is going on for you.  I've not found too many of them.  Welcome.

Maresie.

Yeah, and it's not just the boundary crossing, but the way he could spin things to deflect responsibility for his actions.

He once told me I didn't give myself enough credit to feel threatened by this girl. As if me having a problem with him continually rushing to her, was caused by my low self-esteem...huh?

I had someone else try to gaslight me like this, in a previous relationship, when he was engaging in inappropriate behavior with another woman. He tried to tell me it was my "jealousy issues", when I was asserting a boundary that, hey, if we're in a committed relationship, it's not cool for you to be exchanging phoen numbers with a woman you keep telling me is so much hotter than me.

I'm sorry, I know I need to look at myself and my role in all of this. I'm just very indignant when someone takes THEIR inappropriate behavior and spins it as, my self-esteem issue.

I need to look at why I stay with people who behave that way.

maresie wrote:

---

Boundaries with the ex A were always a battle for me.  He had many many enmeshed relationships with co workers, friends, his family, his bosses, his former girlfriend was firmly out of the picture. 

For me now I see the issues with relationships were all about him.  I definitely had my share of enmeshed relationships with people while I was with him.  The issue was he didn't have any issue with them.  He wasn't obsessed with them in the way I was about his relationships.  He cared certainly but his obsession was with alcohol, mine was with him....

Boundary crossing seems to be an alcoholic forte.  Certainly I had my own share of boundary merging, boundary crossing, boundary blow ups before I hit al anon.  I had a lot of opinions about what what others did but no idea really what I "did" when I was around people. 

I found myself in absolute total over reaction to everything the ex A did not just because his behavior was outrageous (it was) and abusive (it was) but because he was my entire world.  I made him the center of my existence.  Without him I felt empty and lost and bereft.  I had to come to al anon to connect with people who cared (I am sure at a certain point the ex A did but the alcoholism took that from him).  I had to make myself the center of my existence.  I also had to work on my own boundaries and become aware when others crossed the line with me, when they first did it rather than when them trampled all over me (the ex A certainly did the boundary crossing early but it was subtle, nuanced and quite quite calculated).  I was always so confused, astonished and shocked when people did that, I could not read cues and I certainly never saw any of it coming!  Now I'm not, now I'm aware and that's a gift of the program.  Do people still cross boundaries with me certainly but they dont get a lot of chances to do it more than once or twice, nope and it isnt because I live an wonderful life!   The ex A stomped all over me for 7 years, he stomped on my birthdays, holidays, finances, our home he took it all and he certainly played out a different picture to others about how I was than the one he told me.  I had no idea how to "respond".  I had some strange idea that ranting and raving was "responding" when it was even more bonding to his way of relating.  I had no idea how to detach and reflect.  I just drowned in the pain.

I'm so glad you are here now.  Of course you have every reason to be upset at the lies, manipulation and the skewed sense of not knowing.  I lived my entire time with the ex A wondering, trying to find out, looking at his phone, trying to get a picture of what he was doing.  I was absolutely obsessed, fed up, drained and outraged.  Detaching was such a hard job for me.  Letting go was incredibly hard. 

This is a phenomenal board, his is a place where you can get to know others who have been where you are.  This is also a place where its "safe" to say what is going on for you.  I've not found too many of them.  Welcome.

Maresie.

---

 

 

Ugh, I'm sorry to hear that.  My ex could never stand when I tried to call him out on his dishonest behavior. He always had to deflect and turn it around on me.

It's very surreal, however, to have a guy constantly rush back to his exgf, whenever you have a problem in the relationship, and then when you feel threatened about it or tell him it's a problem, he says there's no reason to feel threatened because she doesn't mean anything to him.

Typical twisted alcoholic thinking I guess.

For me, I came from a good home with loving parents. I went through a horrible divorce and problems with an anxiety disorder, which I think has damaged me, and I need to work on this.

maresie wrote:

---

The ex A spun everything, every single violation of my self esteem as a my issue and now his.  One of his friends once came into our house and shook me awake when I was napping (it wasn't an emergency needless to say) and saw it as a self esteem issues that I was pretty mad that he had the nerve to do that!

I ranted on about that for a long long time.  Eventually I got to the ponit when the friend was around I bolted the door.  Nowadays of course I do not react in the same way to people who act like that. 

I have had to get to a place of compassion about this.  Of course I had no boundaires.  I grew up in a family who were mentlaly ill, sexual abuse took place in my home, my parents didn't function.  Where would I learn them?

I've learned them at al anon.  I've learned them with the help of this program and this room.

of course I stayed with people who blurred boundaries.  I didn't know where i began and he ended.  i merged right into him.  I took full responsibilty for his alcoholism and addiction (I paid and paid and paid some more) and I took little for myself.

Maresie

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