The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My families' ignorant spewings of wisdom and "what needs to happen" continue to drive me nuts. Now, it's my sister. My mom has settled down, my sister has stepped it up, and I've recently found out (through my sister) that dad said something to the effect of I should have not intervened when my AH was suicidal... I should have just let him kill himself (he didn't attempt) but whatever - those words are beyond harsh. To find out my calm laid back dad who I've appreciated so much in this time is saying this shit behind my back makes me feel hurt, sad, betrayed, angry, resentful, frustrated ect...
My sister met me for lunch yesterday and all she can say is what she thinks my husband needs to do - ya, right, cause she's the frickin authority on treating addcition!! (she had no clue what she's talking about) AHHHHH!
She goes off about how my husband shouldn't stay at sober living too long, he should come to more family things, hiding away 'from life' is going to make him drink, he should do this, do that. She went off about how mad she is that I'm not more mad. Why am I not more mad! How can I not blame him more, I'm so (insert insult here), I should hate him, I should blah blah. How can I be so calm when my husband has "ruined my life" "ruined my daughter's life" done this and that (this list was never ending)!!!
I saw our therapist the other day and about 70 percent of the hour was spend on me talking about family issues with my mom and sister - not even my husband. I talked about how hard it is that my relationship with my mom and sister have deteriorated, it's so frustrating. I'm so sad and frustrated. I miss them and want to scream some sense into them all at the same time.
I need to do something... I can't get over this, I can't shake it, I can't forget about it. I have tried for months.
I feel I want to have some type of intervention with my family where I go over there, sit down with all of them, and talk about how I feel. I have this vision of me being all prepared and having all these books and information to educate them - visions of me saying the perfect words that will finally reach them - or at least make them back off.
I haven't done anything planned like this yet where I go and say all my crap - all talks or confrontations have been spur of the moment and went from me yelling and crying and looking like a crazy person to me sitting there being calm and saying my thing.
I think when things are spur of the moment, they aren't treated or taken as seriously as they would had they been planned.
My family talks about me behind my back, then they go and tell extended family all my crap and then all the aunts and uncles and cousings proceed to talk about me and my decisions behind my back... and complain about my husband.
I just started crying thinking about this as I'm typing.
I feel I'm being pushed and pushed and judged and judged and I can't take it anymore. I'm scared I'm going to write my entire family off because I'm just so sick of it all - I don't want that.
Now, on a scale from 1-10, how crazy am I? lol
I keep repeating step 1 in my head - I know I'm powerless and can't control my family members anymore than I could control my husband's drinking.. but, I don't feel I've given it a real shot yet - all just me reacting to something in the moment, usually losing it, more recently, remaining more calm... but, I don't feel I've put in a real effort yet.
Anyone have any experience with this? I went from having great relationships with my parents, and my sister and I were BFFs, and now.... I'm just so sad. I used to go to family get together every few months, I'm close with aunts and uncles and cousings too - we would party, have fun, hang out, play games, laugh, and now.... well now I have a panic attack just walking in the room.I avoid it, I dread it.
Hi there Danielle, I can relate to you about the family dysfunction. I live far away from my family and that helps that I can dettach more easily and rarely see or talk to them on purpose. They weren't healthy and neither was I growing up in that house, hence I married an A. As I get healthier I find myself not spinning about them and all the conversations they are having about me. All it did was spiral my mind for hours and upset me which took the focus off of me and expended energy I could use on myself or my kids. My family is a mess it may always be a mess, but all I can control is me. I know they talk about me and my ongoing drama, which keeps them from facing themselves. I don't want to be that judgemental anymore with them or against them. It is a hard thing to learn and I am unsure if I could have dettached from the family I grew up in as easily without the distance. Although I managed to dettach from my exAH and live seperately for almost a year now. Let Go and Let God and take it a minute at a time until you can take it an hour at a time, until you can take it a day at a time. Growth is a process so don't expect perfection!
__________________
God grant me the serenity To accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
Your sister's behavior sounds like my behavior before I got in here. I had all the answers - I knew what everyone should do, because I was the authority. If they'd just listen to me, I could help.
My family used to drive me nuts with spewing wisdom and advice giving. I didn't realize that I sounded just like them before recovery. Ugh. In my own recovery, I've come to understand that the members of my family that are still doing that are sick - they haven't found their own recovery yet. It's easier to be gentle on them knowing that they haven't found what I've found. My recovery has also helped me in setting some boundaries so that I don't have to listen to the wisdom and advice on and on ad nauseum. I can say that I don't want to talk about it anymore and change the subject.
This is where I learned about boundaries, now for YEARS I thought boundaries were "external" where I drew a line in the sand and if you crossed it and hurt me I would explain that you crossed a boundary, you'd apologize, never do it again, and life would go on
this however, only worked with a few people, and I blamed the people who didn't respect my boundaries for being messed up and one day it occured to me that standing in front of someone saying the same thing over and over and over wasn't me "enforcing a boundary" but me going insane trying to modify someone else's behavior
So I learned -new- boundaries, boundaries that were internal, such as don't try to teach a pig to sing, because pigs can't carry a tune very well, they get mad at you, and I end up frustrated and angry with the pig, and don't try to get water from a dry or toxic well, and don't shop for bread at a hardware store and don't sit under the pigeons in the park and don't eat the yellow snow
It was literally that easy, just step back and take a look, harder to implement sure, but easy to see, which is why I am so "self focused" on taking my own inventory rather then other peoples, taking other peoples inventories just makes me angry, taking my own inventory gives me solutions
what this meant for me was I had to severely limit my families input in my life, I also had to severely limit the information about my life I gave them, I set "internal boundaries" such as ALWAYS have an escape route, if we are on the phone, the advice giving starts, I say "woops" there is someone at the door gotta go" and hang up, if in person, literally walk away, cut them off as soon as possible, maybe even say "I'm not interested in your advice even a little bit" but remove myself IMMEDIATELY, and -DO NOT ENGAGE-
Of course my family could push my buttons, they put them there, so it was about learning to remove the buttons and maintain the proper distance, which is the proper use of a boundary
OK, on to my not so "evolved" stuff about my response to this topic, personally unsolicited advice or any advice, ESPECIALLY from people who either A) have no experience with it, or B) that area of their life is a mess is a personal pet peeve, like people who are addicted to relationships and are in sick ones and go from one to the next freely spewing their idiocy about what is healthy make my eyeballs spin in my head, I mean codependents and alonics giving relationship advice is like drunk people showing up at AA and telling the people there how to stay sober, I don't have a great deal of patience for it, and that's on me
It was POUNDED into me that in recovery we share our experience, strength and hope and NEVER our opinion or advice, ESPECIALLY our opinion about an experience we have never had, it was explained to me that no one was interested in my opinion about something of which I knew nothing, and after being around for a few decades and watching that a few million times I began to see the wisdom of that policy, "Do as I say, not as I do" is basically the root of alcoholic/codependent thinking, the giving of advice especially unsolicited advice is the definition of a codie relapse for me, so if I hate it so much in others I try to moniter that behavior in myself
I mean what got me here is thinking I knew what was best for others and then telling them so...literally, what got me here was the exact behavior you describe in your relatives, do as I say not as I do spewed from the utter superiority of total ignorance, and I haven't evolved enough to not have that behavior grate on me, it's like sitting with a drunk person listening to them tell me how good sobriety is for me, smelling that stench etc...it's not healthy for me to sit and tolerate that, it triggers resentment and intolerance in me, so my answer is to avoid it and remove myself from it asap, there are TONS of healthy people out there, and one of the things I learned after I had been around recovery for awhile was I got to choose my family, I was surrounded by all these people who acted like family was supposed to act, they didn't say "I love you" and then hurt me like my family did, they never said "I love you" at all, but they did, their actions showed it, and that's when I learned love is a verb, love is an action word, love is what I do and someone else does, love wasn't that thing I shared with my family, that was obligation and blood, family to me today is earned, love to me today is earned, both by actions, my life is too short to waste on sick people, i don't care how closely their ties are to me by blood, now I know that sounds cold hearted, but it's not, by maintaining distance, I am a better relative, I am friendly, happy, dependable, it was only when I lowered my boundaries that I got too close and let them hurt me and I hurt them, but when i kept healthy boundaries up I was able to be a good brother, son, nephew, uncle, it was only when I let them down and allowed these people to poop on me cause thats what pigeons do that i became a not so good brother, son etc
I keep my distance from unhealthy people today to the best of my ability, family or not...and I try not to have romantic relationships with them either lol (unhealthy people not my fambly, I aint from the black hills of dakota or tennesee now yall)
-- Edited by linbaba on Wednesday 20th of April 2011 01:11:07 PM
I have the same type of family. What they think of me or my situation is none of my concern. If they tell me over and over what I need to be doing I just don't bother with them. I haven't spoken with my sister in five years and my mother for over a year. I am so much happier.
I set boundaries for quite a while with them and they got tired of them. They have one by one removed me from their lives and that works for me. It was draining to have to set such a huge amount of boundaries but in the end I had lots of practice at it.
My sister is there with them right now, and I can hear the sickness that has taken her over just by being around them so much. I don't want to be like that. I have to be away from them for a long time to be able to get better myself.
There is one way to stop this - stop telling them whats going on in your home and with your husband , talk to Al-Anon people they dont pass it on .. When family knows all it makes it difficult for the alcoholic should he seek sobriety the last thing either of you need is judgment or having the past thrown in your face . what your sister said is hearsay what ever her agenda was in telling you that little bit of gossip only she knows ,next time she wants to share tell her you dont want to hear it and change the subject it dosent take long for them to realize that your serious . Boundaries are for you , its your job to keep them not up to other people you are the one in control , listen or shut it down . I too love that sentence other peoples opinion of me is none of my business .
I read it as your family are reacting to the effect living with an Ahusband has had on your life ..... and because you are their daughter, and they no doubt love you, they are doing the best they can with what they know at the moment.
It's not called the family disease for nothing. They too are affected, they've been bystanders, maybe participants, to the chaos caused in your life by your A and in their own way are trying to protect you......but are unwittingly harming you......sounds like fear is in control in their lives which possibly could have made your calm laid back Dad say what he said.
Working a programme of recovery boundaries are important and I agree with linbaba about internal boundaries, can be just little actions rather than words that will diffuse a situation without a negative reaction...... I also like think think think.....pause before acting (not reacting) and make the right decision for YOU
My A is my son and well meaning family and friends had many ''suggestions'' for me and some of these people now have reacted (quietly slipped out of my life) to my actions based on following my Alanon programme of recovery. As Aloha said what other people think of me is none of my business
Prior to Alanon I set myself up for everything they threw at me. I made my sons business my business, I made it their business and I made it anyones business that would listen to me..... and I suffered the consequences of that. I now do things differently.
I no longer enter into detailed discussions about my son, or my recovery, with people out-with Alanon
If you are working a programme of recovery in Alanon, leave some literature with them and if they dont like it or arent willing to accept it as part of your recovery then a boundary could be detaching with love and compassion. In time if they see that your life is improving, whether the alcoholic is drinking or not, they then might seek recovery for themselves.
Wishing you and your husband courage and serenity.
Yes, I've had experiences such as you described. MANY. In hindsight, I wish I had not shared with my family and a few best friends the details of my husband's alcoholic shananagins. It appears that when they think or see my then-husband, all they see is a selfish guy, with no self control that ruined his family, career, and marriage. Some dislike him, while other pity him. They don't have any hope. Many say he is "too far gone" and "prepare for the inevitable" (his death).
The way I see it, is that family members care about us (the non-drinking spouse). They see us as victims and our alcoholics as the "bad" people who have a choice. They don't understand alcoholism. I understand where they stand because I was once there.
A paramedic shared last night at a member about how he has observed many people on the streets that he has taken into the ER because they were throwing up blood. He spoke of listening to many AA speakers share their stories and finally realized that this is a disease. No one, he shared, gets up in the AM and says to himself that he is gonna go out today and do this and that (he elaborated here) and totally screw up his life! What he said made perfect sense.
Nowadays, I'm in the process of "not" sharing what is going on with him. I keep it to myself. Our two grown sons and I have agreed to not talk about him unless we are positive.
I'm especially close to my stepmother. We used to talk nightly on the phone, giving her the lowdown. Now I regret having done so. She is wanting me to have no contact with him. I know she her want is based in fear. I've recently stopped discussing him at all with her. She appears somewhat hurt - says I'm too distant. But I know we're going through an adjustment period. It's like she is being weaned off her addiction. I think somehow she saw my complaining to her was a way of us bonding.
I don't know what stage you are at in dealing with alcoholism. I do understand the feeling of need to share with those closest to you. However, I realized a little too late that it backfires. Others, especially those who are not in any type of recovery program that provides them to take their own inventory, are often less open minded and don't see that they themselves can change, let alone others.
It's tough. Take what you like a leave the rest.
-- Edited by GailMichelle on Wednesday 20th of April 2011 03:38:48 PM
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Danielle, the issue that matters here is that needing their approval is still so important to you. If this was not the central issue at hand you would have just said "I'm a big girl and the decisions that my husband and I make are none of your concern. I appreciate that you love and care for me though." The end... You don't owe them explanation or education. It's not their battle to fight.
When someone gets your goat, move your goat ot another pasture :)
Sounds like my entire life. Enmeshment is the norm I think in many dysfunctional famiies. That's why al anon has become my family of choice.
My entire family is wracked with alcoholism. Its been a lifetime work to come to terms with that. To let go was very very very hard.
I had to learn where and how to reach out for support. My family make people a target and attack them. They don't know how to be supportive. They put on a great act but at the end of the day all they really know how to do is attack.
I craved for them to get better most of my life. I craved honesty, celebration, support, care and understanding. None of that ever came through. They would allude to it. They would at times talk it. Some of the talks I have had with my younger sister about our upbringing was so key to my coming to terms with it. At the same time most of the work of my recovery has been done without my family its been done without their knowledge help, verification or even ackowledgement.
Alcoholism brings out the best of the know it alls. There is a book offered at the top of this page, Getting them Sober. Get it. I think that is one of the best guides to early sobriety I've ever come across.
Thanks everyone for your replies. I typed up a huge reply and then accidentally deleted it! arggg.
It's true. I find it very hard to let go of my family. I don't want to. (I know... that means I'm then not allowed to wallow in self pity and whine about them cause I do have a choice). lol
I just can't image not being with my family because they are dysfunctional and not seeking recovery.
My mom does so much for me. My friends all say they wish they had my mom. Then when I put it in perspective, and think of other moms who don't care about having a relationship with their grandchildren, make no effort, don't help their kids when they can, are crazy, or addicts, or selfish ect.. I am SO beyond grateful for my mom. Sure, she gets all up in my business, wants to know everything, but she loves me and she cares.
I'm getting my house ready to sell right now: my mom is there almost every day (while I'm at work) doing stuff to help me - painting, cleaning, packing stuff up, installing new toilet, ect...
This morning, my mom came over and helped me rip up the old kitchen floor and next week she is going to start tiling my kitchen floor. There is no way I ever would get this house ready to sell on my own any time soon (and it needs to happen soon, I cannot afford to stay here!). I work a lot, have a meeting or an extracurricular event to take my daughter too almost every night.
If I need help learning how to fix anything, change an electrical outlet, put in a new toilet, ect.. there's my mom, always willing to help me when I ask.
If I have no time to cook dinner, I can always go to my parents house and eat.
My retired parents watch my daughter before and after school.
I got pregnant at 17 - my mom was there for me. She didn't judge or tell me what to do. She said she would respect any decision I made, and she did. I decided to keep the baby (who is now my wonderful beautiful 11 year old daughter and keeping her was hands down the best decision I've ever made.) My dad didn't talk to me the entire time I was pregnant as he wanted me to have an abortion and thought I was throwing my life away. My mom was there. (my dad is now a wonderful grandpa and him and my daughter are close) - he changed his tune as soon as my daughter was born and after I still went on to university.
In university, my parents helped support me. I had an exam the next morning, they would babysit so I could study.
They, especially my mom, have always been there without question.
I just can't imagine not having a relationship with them. Maybe I sound really sick in saying this - but that's just out of the question (even though sometimes I'm so frustrated I feel like running away from my family).
So, maybe I need to learn to accept them and let it all fall off my back?... That's what my dad is like - my sister and mom can be in a screaming match right beside him and you would think he was def and blind. It doesn't ever phase him and he rarely gets involved.
@Mark, you said something about how I still need their approval. I haven't thought of it that way. I do care what they think... I try not to, and it doesn't bother me on a daily basis like it used to... but, I probably still care too much about what others think. I say to myself every day: "what you think of me in none of my business".
I don't think in terms of needing their approval... I think I want them to understand...ok, and why do I want them to understand... so they quite judging me and understand...and if they understood, then I wouldn't worry so much what they think...ok, so maybe that's needing approval !!
I have said to my sister and my mom "I can make my own decisions" in response to them telling me what to do. My sister slammed the phone down on me... and my mom just says she knows and she wants to help and it doesn't ever end at that. If I walked away.... my mom would cry and feel like crap and I can't stand to see that.
@Maresie, I have read Getting Them Sober.. I love that book.
A few others mentioned how my families behavior is what they were like before recovery. I see that too - I was like them only probably a hundred times worse.
@Lin lol, "don't try to teach a pig to sing, because pigs can't carry a tune very well, they get mad at you, and I end up frustrated and angry with the pig" lol... ok, I will try to not teach my pigs how to sing!
@ Abbyal and Ness... I did stop sharing with my family what was going on with my AH. I went from hiding everything, to telling them stuff after they started seeing it, to bitching about my husb and then feeling bad and regretting that, to not telling them anything.... unless they ask, but, even then I would give only brief overviews.
A big issue for me is that I find it backfires when I try and change the topic... I have said "I can make my own decisions" "I don't want to talk about it now" ect... then their reaction/hurt/anger.... I guess it still triggers something in me... and I get SO upset, sometimes I panic, sometimes I start bawling my eyes out, other times, it annoys me for a minute and I'm able to move on and forget about it... I guess I'm scared of it making me feel nuts and cry and pannicky like it has in the past. I feel like it's almost easier to sometimes just tell them what they are asking for in order to avoid telling them I don't want to talk about it, which might piss them off, which might make me cry and have a panic attack which is just about the worse feeling I've ever felt. It's fear. I realize I just sounded somewhat crazy in my in depth analysis of what could happen!
Anyway, thanks again for all your replies... I am going to print them up.
oh and @gailmichelle.... I sometimes think too that my family may have seen me telling them what's going on as a form of bonding.
I also don't feel the need or desire to share anything with my family. I have alanon people for that, and a couple really close, supportive, non judgmental or advise giving friends. I struggle more with not sharing things with my husband. I miss sharing things with him...especially now that he's in recovery and doing well and I see that old person I love coming back so I miss sharing everything with him and struggle with that from time to time.
