The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Yesterday I was told (while I said nothing and walked away 5 separate times) the following:
- AH is not worrying about me he is simply telling me what he doesn't find acceptable (I have said something like this to him for months now) about my behavior and is finally standing up for himself.
- I don't see myself as I truly am and I am mentally ill and need psychiatric help
- I am committing character assassination of him with our kids (bc our D5 told him she's afraid to stay with him alone bc he might drink beer- at the encouragement of her T she said this in T) and of course, I am to blame.
- I try to change history to suit myself (when as he was saying this that is precisely what he was doing)
- Now that he is "sober" (dry being a better term even though his dry period is like a few weeks here and there at times) he is seeing how abusive I have been to him and he's using AA and his sponsor to help him determine what the best course of action is to protect himself
Let me tell you- I wanted to defend myself to the ends of the earth and back... I HATE being accused of things that aren't true. I am really okay with criticism when it's true and not just being flung for the sake of being a jerk. But these projections from AH and outright lies HURT...
But for the first time in a long time, if ever, I didn't give him the satisfaction of defending myself and giving him the opportunity to spin and abuse. He really is emotionally and mentally abusive and I don't know how I didn't see it for so long.
Of course because I didn't respond to him I got told I was passive aggressive, and demonstrating that I am in a highly emotional state and unable to process information and have a rational conversation.
Does he really believe what he's saying I wonder? He pretty much described himself to me in all the accusing he did and I wonder if he even sees that?
Two thoughts come to mind, both from my experience, and my wise old sponsor....
1. Stop trying to make sense of of nonsense
2. When dealing with your A, imagine them with a large "SSS" stamped on their forehead that stands for "sick, sick, sick"...
For the record - NOT reacting (and thus giving into his insanity) and posting here instead is a great way of not allowing him to 'push your buttons'....
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I tend to forget sometimes that not reacting always makes me feel so much better but now that that's what I am doing (not reacting- though I did fwd the email to my lawyer bc there were some veiled threats re: our kids and finding ways to keep me from being the custodial parent- but I am not telling AH I fwd'd it) I am way calmer than when I open my mouth and engage in any way with him...
Thanks for the advice of not trying to make sense of the/his nonsense.
This may sound insane, but... for a long time I haven't been able to know whether what he was saying to me was nonsense or whether I was crazy for thinking it was nonsense.... I grew up in a crazyhouse and married into madness (and have my own madness that I bring with me!) and my ability to trust my gut when something seems crazy vs question my perceptions (which I have done for years) isn't that great. But it's getting better!
Someday, you'll be able to walk away and not even think twice about what he says to you. It's probably difficult to imagine that; however, you stick to working the program and you'll see for yourself. It's magic......uh, or should say a miracle.
I spent countless years trying to figure out my then-husband. Then one day it really, really sunk in: he is ill and I was just as ill at one point. But I'm awakening & it's a feeling I wouldn't trade for nothing!
Knowing that I'm responsible for me and he is responsible for himself - damn! I wish I would have known that years ago.
My son, who is 35, is getting married very soon. When he seems to be in a receptive mood for mamma's wisdom, I share with him what I now know. Unfortunately, I didn't model that behavior when he was living at home.
You're doing well .............keep facing forward and taking care of you.
BTW, I agree with Tom.
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Dear RunnerMom, first of all, my heart goes out to you.
I am new here and I have a question that maybe others can respond to for clarification:
Does "don't react" also mean the same as don't ACT ??
It seems to me that to have to sit and take horrible onslaughts such as you describe is tanamount to abuse. Verbal abuse is very destructive. It wears down a person's self esteem and has profound psychological effects just as physical abuse does--and the effects are cumulative over time. I'll bet that if you were monitored during that onslaught, your B/P, heart rate, and cortisol (stress hormone)levels would be sky high.
Is one expected to stand quietly and take a physical pounding? If not, then is a verbal pounding any less damaging (if broken bones are excluded)?
Also, RunnerMom, you mentioned the children. If they have to witness this on a regular basis, the fear and tension has the same effect on them. Plus, this is an incredibly powerful role modeling for them as to how men should treat women, and how women should respond.
Please, dear RunnerMom don't think that I am getting on your case. You bring up an issue that has been puzzling me since I have been reading this board. I feel so bad for you and your kids. I feel like I would like to help you.
I think Otie makes a very good point about don't react versus taking emotional abuse. That was puzzling to me for a very long time, too.
My sponsor says that "don't react" is not the same as "stand there and take it." I always have choices. I can interrupt and simply say that I will not be talked to in such a fashion - and if the other person does not stop, I can choose to remove myself from that person's physical proximity for a while. I could go in another room, go for a walk, go to the store, etc. This was important to me early on in dealing with my exAH. Early on, I really didn't know if I was crazy or if he was - and it didn't take much for me to allow him to convince me that it was surely me.
Ahhh the good lessons from the wise old timers. What I learned was that I was a reacter and my sponsor was in the process of helping me change that. First came the slogans to memorize and think about constantly "Don't React!!" and if I had any doubts about what to do..."When in doubt DON'T" (do anything). Then the upper class lessons. It is better to "respond" than "react" and the difference is in the fearless thinking I did before it. Think about the consequences I wanted first and then do the best action to get that consequence. Often times the consequence wasn't "winning" but just peace of mind and serenity for myself as the "White Rabbit" tells me which comes out another slogan, "Think".
She also said you are doing good...and trust it, you are. In support ((((hugs))))
(((runnermom))) Oh, this sounds so familiar. Only my ah criticizes and makes accusations when he's been drinking. And the thing that really burns me is they're not true! you said ¨He pretty much described himself to me in all the accusing he did and I wonder if he even sees that?¨ I've thought and wondered the same thing. I honestly don't think he does realize it. I used to try and defend myself but it made no difference to him. Now I say ¨I'm not going to listen to this¨ and I go somewhere else. It's frustrating, but you're doing the best thing by walking away.
Newly sober people are Stark Raving Sober , they just dont think right , all over the place and not willing yet to take responsibility for thier own behavior blaming you keeps them sick . Dry is often worse than the drinking days but this program works drinking or not . when he goes on a rant about how bad you are smile and say You could be right and walk away or Sorry you feel that way and walk away the conversation is over dont engage , in our odat on july 14th it says to not assage thier guilt by arguing with them, dont allow yourself to be abused in name of anyones recovery . Add another meeting to your week focus on yourself and regardless of what he is doing your going to be okay .
I've taken to using "he'll either drink or he won't, what will you do" and exchanging "drink" with other things, then thinking about what sort of response I want to have next time - plan my actions ahead of time so that when the crunch moment comes, I at least have a plan. If you can assume its a given that he will verbally abuse you in the future, think about how best to respond to protect your serenity then do it.
My A says the same sorts of things yours does; I'm the angry alcoholic in need of counseling, not him; I lie, cheat, am bi-polar, psycho, a bad parent, etc. Points out my angry moments like they are just as bad as his, says that 90% of the fighting is my fault. Defending myself is pointless when he is off on a tangent, walking away works, taking a walk to deal with the frustration helps a lot.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
This is what i try to do when I hear the kind of comments runnermom got. I have a list of small sentences I practise using when appropriate (which is the most difficult part). if someone says something invasive or you disagree with:
I am not comfortable with that. I don't feel like talking about it. I want to keep that to myself. I see it differently than you do. We don't agree about that. That's my business or none of your business ( a favourite of mine!)
.............keep facing forward and taking care of you. 