Aloha Floridawife...welcome to the MIP board and yes we who are members of the AFG don't give advice; I have suggestions though that worked for me...my ESH.  Don't talk to the drunk when the drunk is drunk.  Not even a recovering drunk can talk to the drunk when the drunk is drunk...we get the same outcome your AH's friend got and you get the same drunk drama still.  If he is violating a court order by not attending his required sentence the court needs to know for your alcoholic's state.  He hasn't reached a bottom yet and won't when he says "help me" and then doesn't follow thru and ends up coming back crazy.  He needs a good hard, hot bottom and hasn't had one yet.  This is not your job...if he has a parole officer or court aide I'd suggest to him that he call them and tell them what has been going on with him regarding his drinking and sentence.  Again this is not your job. 

You don't have to talk to him about anything regarding his drinking.  He is already talking to himself about it and asking you and others to "help him" is diversion and manipulating...It's his job you're done...you've fired yourself because you can't do the work only he can. 

Suggestion?  scroll back into the prior post by many others who have come here and count how many times your story has been told by others...Alcoholism is predictable...It get's worse; never better.

Continue in Al-Anon...For me that is the one and only thing, process, program, therapy, behavior, solution that has worked for me.  I don't have an alcoholic as a Higher Power any longer and don't have to (for this 24 hours) worry about alcohol destroying my peace of mind and serenity.  Take care of yourself and keep coming back here often...we are family.  (((((hugs)))))

Hello and welcome!

I can relate to so many parts of your story, and many people on this board can. I don't really want to give suggestions basically because your choices are yours but I will tell you a little about my journey with this disease and the choices I had to make and how those have manifested so far.

Like Jerry said, you cannot talk to the alcoholic when he/she is drunk. It just doesn't work. He obviously knows he has a problem, and feels bad about what he's doing because he's coming home drunk and asking if you hate him. That's guilt. But be careful, guilt=manipulation. If he's drunk, and a guilty drunk at that, there's no use talking to him then because alcoholics are manupulative, and when they are drunk it just goes way beyond manipulation. My ex-AH used to do the same thing. He also would accuse me of cheating with a lot of people, including his own friends, and my gay guy friends! Sometimes when he was really drunk he'd have dreams I cheated on him and he'd wake up angry with me over absolutely nothing. This is called guilt. He knew he had an issue that was slowly driving me away so of course he feared I would leave him for someone else. Alcoholics suffer from low self-esteem and they project that in a variety of ways--from mistrust, to controlling behaviors, to making you feel guilty, to making you feel like YOU have the problem and YOU are crazy, etc. That was my experience.

As far as him saying he needs help, but wants you to do everything for him. You can't. You may try (and I did...we all did!) but in the end, the ultimatums don't work, the "if you go to meetings and quit drinking, we can stay married" does not work---ever. He HAS to do it on his own, and you have to focus on yourself and your beautiful children. I also have a young daughter (almost 5) and I chose to leave my ex-AH right after she turned 2. I tried the ultimatums...in my case though my ex-AH never admitted he needed help or had a problem...to him I was crazy and overreacting. The only time my ex-AH ever agreed to anything was when he knew I was going to leave. And I agreed to attend marriage counseling with him, just praying all the while that the counselor could "get through to him". It didn't work unfortunately. No one can get through to them except for their Higher Power and themselves. The alcoholic doesn't drink because he doesn't love you or your children. He drinks because he cannot help it, and he cannot admit to himself how bad it really is. His saying that "he knows he needs help...will you help me get it" is a manipulation. The admitting of having the problem and needing a help is just enough to give you hope enough to stay. Instead of giving you (and himself) the whole meal, he's teasing you with the appetizer (the hope) that the entire meal will soon come and you'll be satisfied.

I don't want to make a suggestion as to whether you should leave or not. I can tell you that some of the people in the meetings I've gone to said they attended Al-Anon on their own before the drinker got help, and they believe that by their doing so, and being 100% committed to the program and the steps, that eventually the drinker got help and they continue their help together. Sadly when I was dealing with all this, no one ever suggested Al-Anon. I had heard of it but I had no idea what they did or what they stood for. I didn't think it could help me, or know how it could. My marriage spun out of control. I am normally an optimistic, happy person who can make anyone laugh. The whole situation dimmed my light and I became someone I hated. I also would have to leave work some days, or call in sick, just to deal with everything. I ended up losing some wonderful friends, jeopardizing my career, and probably not being the best, most patient Mother I could be, because I was focusing so much anger, resentment and energy toward my ex-AH and the disease that he still doesn't admit to have. For me the only thing I could do was leave and I am happy I did it.

That being said, no matter what you do, work the program. Go to as many meetings as you can. I've only been to two (just started this week) and I've been reading a lot of the material suggested on this board for about a month. It amazes me how much it has helped. Even if you leave the alcoholic, you will forever be affected. It took me a couple years to realize that. I thought that by removing myself from the situation that my problems were over. That was only half the battle. I think it's important no matter what your situation to focus on yourself, and get to a mentally healthy enough place to make a decision. Its hard to make that choice when you don't understand yourself or his disease yet. If you attend meetings and work at the steps, I think you will find some peace and direction.

(((HUGS))) to you!

Lori

Hi,

I can so relate to your share I tried for years to get my partner to understand that his drinking was destroying everything.  I would sit for hours trying to get him to see the damage he was doing, sometimes al;l night.  Yes then I would go to wok looking and feeling like crap and he would stay in bed.  The next day he would be full of guilt nd the promises would come but he could not keep them.

In the al anon meetings there is aleaflet called the merry go round it is great it shown us the part we play.  I was definatley on the merry go round. Thanks to meetings i would sometimes jump off but then I would get back on.  One of the first things I learnt is it is absolutly hopeless talking to them when they have been drinking you might as well be talking german.

I too threatened till my partner went to meetings and he did go for a little while cause he really did not want to loose me.  But he went for me not him.  His guilt hit hard and he started to drink harder than ever.  As I concentrated on my recovery I learnt I was doing all the wrong things for the right reasons.  I slowly started to apply what I was learnig in al anon.  I stepped aside.  Yes he lost his job, yes his kids turned their back on him and all his friends, and family.  In the end I left him to his drinking.  He finally did go to AA not because I threatened but because he was in so much pai so sad because no one was helpig or putting up with it all.  He has been sober for 7 months.  That is his buiness.  I have my own recovery to concentrate on I sometimes go backwards but today I feel good and its all thanks to al anon look after you your kids need one healthy parent al anon is the answer that is the only sugestion I can give.  attend as many meetings as you can, read , come on here, get a sponor, get phone numbers and when he is drinking ring an al anon member for you not an AA for him.  You are not alone reach out and al anon will love you till you love yourself hugs xxx

Thanks everyone. Your words mean so much to me. I was going to Al-Anon meetings every Saturday, but I missed my last one. It is just helpful to hear that other people have been there done that. I know can "tell me" what to do, but hearing other people's stories help me understand. I know I shouldn't listen to him when he has been drinking and that by saying things he is guilting or manipulating me but I honestly don't know what to do. Luckily the night that this last episode happened my kids were not there, but most of the time they are and although they are really young I don't want them to hear or see their father like that. I do need to get a sponsor, that is something I haven't done yet, I have a phone list of people but noone has actually been appointed as my sponsor. That would probably help me. Although I can't financially afford to leave him yet, I have recently started going back to college, in hopes that I can get a better paying job. I have been concentrating on myself and my kids and I was doing so well making myself happy, until these last couple of episodes happened. I shouldn't allow his actions to affect me but they always do. I don't think he takes me seriously when I threaten to have him leave, so it is doing no good. I just have to make some serious decisions and soon cause I just am sooooooo tired of dealing with it. I am also not willing to part with my children, even if it is just part-time, so essentially I would be taking them from him, because there is no way that he is getting custody or even part-time custody of them with him acting like this. It makes me feel bad for the kids.