Just keep thinking that divorce is the only answer... - Al-Anon Family Group

usedtobeanyer · Senior Member

Just keep thinking that divorce is the only answer...

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

It sounds as if you're still trying to take care of your wife's mental state in saying that you can't get a divorce because it would destroy her. Of course I don't know the details of your situation. But it's something to consider that not allowing her to experience the true effects of her drinking -- that her husband needs to protect himself and their children, and that this might take the form of separating -- well, shielding her from the effects of her drinking usually qualifies as enabling.

Again, I'm not advocating for any one course of action, just thinking over the situation. It sounds as if she knows where to get help and where she can start recovery (yet again). And there's the saying "Nothing changes if nothing changes."

In my own case, I think leaving while my child was younger was a better answer. He didn't have to process it in any sophisticated way. In fact so many of his friends have separated parents, step-parents, and all kinds of living situations that he didn't seem to think we were unusual at all. What I told him is that "Dad needs to live in his own place because right now he's not making good decisions." I heard him say this to a friend, casually, "Yeah, my dad has his own place because, you know, he's not always good at decisions."

For my own experience, I know I sometimes thought, "I need to be there for him [my AH] because..." but actually it was that I couldn't face the thought of separating. My own addiction was too strong. I also liked the feeling that I was needed to keep things together (although I also resented it). It made me feel that at least I served some purpose in this world.

Keep taking care of yourself and your kids, and learning and working recovery -- that will be the most important thing.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Sad Use to be...If you keep doing the same things over and over you get the same results which is part of the definition of insanity for me. How's the work with your
sponsor and the steps and have you gotten a home group yet? Major major tools
that help return peace of soul and mind while the disease attempts to take over.

You've been thinking that solution for a long time kinda like you're stuck on just
one without alternatives. For certain she and the disease ought not be your Higher
Power and then from my experiences also I know what it's like to allow that to
happen before surrendering and following up on help.

I had to learn how to get out of my thinking and rely on the ESH of my recovery
family. (((hugs))) smile

Nutbar · Veteran Member

Hi, your situation seems very similar to what I went through. While on holidays last year, my AW decided one day to let my 8 year old son ride his bike while hanging on to the side of the car when she was drunk!! That was the final straw. I then drove back to my city and developed an action plan whereby I visited a rehab centre and booked her her. I then phoned my wife to say the marriage is over unless she checks herself in for four weeks of treatment. I also told all her friends what I was doing so, if she phoned them complaining, then they would be on my side. When I mentioned the driving incident to her friends they had no option but to be on my side. My AW had no one to turn to. They were hard calls to make as I had always kept her alcoholism secret as I was afraid. It was amazing how many of her friends guessed she had a problem anyway and they applauded my actions! Anyway, by being a tough b*stard and by meaning what I said, she agreed to check herself into rehab and has been sober a year now. By the way, I also had a mountain of self help books as my AW had convinced me that I was the one with mental issues. Such is the nature of this terrible disease. I would just get raelly tough and if you give ulitimatums then make sure you follow through. Dont worry about ramifications amongst friends and family as ultimately you are doing whats best for you and hopefully your marriage. Good luck to you.

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

Usetobe,

You say divorce is not a option. The alternative is to make the best of the situation you have. The program is you ticket. It's O.K. to glance back at where you were, where you are, and where you would like to be. I've been there. The problem for me was I had a tendency to "stare" and that's what caused me problems. I realized I did have choices. I realized I was responsible for my own happiness.

My problems are not the same as yours, yet we all have similar problems when we live with active alcoholism. I use my program, the steps, and guidance from my HP. I made a choice that if I'm going to be here.....and stay here.....I'm going to be happy and have peace of mind......I am powerless over alcohol......but I will not let it make my life unmanageable.....whatever the disease throws at me I can always turn it over to a power much greater than myself. The opposite never worked for me.

RLC

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I am sure I shared with you, that I had tried to leave my first AH when I caught him the first time driving drunk with our babies.

I remember the anguish. He was always happy, worked well, young, 27. Had not gotten too far with the disease yet.

But I had to do this for the kids. I am sure things would have possibly worked out. But sadly we were not given that chance. That was when he went on his super binge and was killed.

Would I do it again? Knowing what I know now, I would set up boundaries to protect my kids. If he did not follow the boundaries, then I would do the same thing.

But I did not know Al Anon or AA back then. He was the type that would have gone to AA. He adored the kids, they were so close.

I blamed me for a long time. But worked it out, back then and again from MIP help and support.

You cannot stop your AW from doing whatever she is going to do. But you can protect your kids.
Just becuz you life with her does not keep her safe.

You were afraid of this a long time ago. Now it has happened. We don't have to divorce right away but we can separate to protect the kids. Myself I would set clear boundaries, and consequenses. If she crosses one, we stick to the rule.

That seems the only way they take us seriously. There is no question kids feel things. I am 58 and still remember when my parents had hard times and how scared I was.And it was nothing big!

I thought it was my fault mother was so sad. )c:

No one can possibly get away unscathed by the poison of the addict, especially when it is our parent.

If you are staying becuz you are afraid she won't survive it, maybe you are helping her not reach her bottom. We cannot stop them from anything.When we shelter them from the consequences for their behavior we are helping the disease.

It seems like you set boundaries up about this? So what was the consequence? The disease needs to know you are serious.

Its good you are here! Are you able to get to meetings?

I know you are in a very hard position! You are a good person. I am glad your kids have you since mom is so sick!

love,debilyn

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Usedtobe

I just wanted to add that I am sorry that this latest incident has developed. It certainly does appear that you are both looking for constructive answers. Meetings, books, therapy all have a positive affect on our thinking and acting.

Alanon's suggestion that we keep an open mind in all situations is very important here. Yes, a divorce might be the answer down the line but for the moment keep showing up, using your tools, looking for HPs will and the process will unfold the way it should.

Praying for your family

delhommefan · Veteran Member

(((HUGS))) I think some people stay with the alcoholic forever, some people stay for a really long time, some only stay for a short time. In all cases, it seems to always be a last straw that really breaks the camels back. I can completely relate to what you're saying. I left my ex-AH 3 years ago. Once I removed myself from the situation, I could clearly look back and see the issue was always there. I also have alcoholism in my family. It's weird how you always promise yourself this or that, but end up in that very same situation (at least that's how it is with people like us). In my case, I really still am not sure if my ex-AH's drinking got worse after our daughter was born, or if I was just more cognicent of it. I think prior to that I was very much in denial and I lied for him, never told ANYONE about how much he actually drank, never talked to him about it, etc. Once you add children, that can become the last straw for many people. For those of us who do not have this disease, it's pretty normal I think to be young, drink with your friends, do the regular college-kid kind of stuff. But we assume that at some point, typically once you start a family, you outgrow these behaviors. And it's extremely hard for us to understand a person who does not do that.

Having children opens your eyes. You look at the world in a new light, and you want whatever is best for them. I was only open with my ex-AH for about two years before I ended up leaving. He refused marriage counseling until it was probably too late (I was so over it), and even when he did agree to go, he lied the entire time and turned the problem around on me. He blamed post-partum depression on our problems. I suppose it could have mimiced that because he absolutely made me crazy, hateful, and angry all the time. This was not the person he married. At one point about a year before I left, he stopped drinking for 3 months. He never did meetings, he just stopped on his own with the help of a Chantix (to quit smoking). And he wasn't a jerk in the process like he had been in every other attempt to quit. I really thought our marriage could be saved. Well, his family members were always his enablers since they all have problems with alcohol too. On our daughter's 2nd birthday party, he got extremely drunk. Right in front of my baby girl, embarassed us in front of everyone we knew, etc. I made the choice that day to leave. I didn't do it until a couple months later for financial reasons, but the plan was set in motion that day.

I too chose to stay as long as I did for fear of what taking our daughter from him would do to him. I agonized over that decision, but ultimately, it is what I had to do for both of us. He is still equally involved in her life. We have 50/50 custody and it is written in our agreement that if she mentions him drinking around her, I can take him to court for sole custody with grounds. So he has a second chance and so far, he hasn't messed it up. As far as the children being affected, they already have been no matter what their ages. I personally made my choice to leave when my daughter was very young in the hope that she would adjust easier. But that was my choice, and it's not right for every person or family. I know she will be affected by alcoholism know matter what I do. If I stayed she would be. If I left she would be. Her father is an alcoholic. But for us, I had to remove myself from the situation and finally get some help to fix me. Living with the alcoholic will make you look crazy to everyone around you, including your children. Whether you get help and stay in the marriage, or leave the marriage, just remember to get help for you. It will make you a better person and parent. You cannot change your wife, but you can change you. (((HUGS)))

I don't expect my response to help you in making a choice because that choice will always be yours. But your story really resonates with me so I wanted to share mine.

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

This is not to be taken as advice by any means. My first marriage was spent in the active alcoholic insanity. The last 3 years of it, I knew I actually wanted to file for divorce but I didn't do so because I was afraid my exAH wouldn't survive. Who would pay the rent, who would take care of the grocery shopping, who would get the lawyer when he got in trouble, who would do the laundry and the cooking, etc.? I did not think he was capable of taking care of himself. I stayed out of obligation because I thought I had no choice to leave - I thought it was my responsibility to take care of things. I thought I would just be another person on his long sad list of people that had hurt him and left him, and I didn't want to be. In retrospect, I realize that the list exists because of his actions ... he used the absolute life out of other people who eventually had to say "NO" and stop enabling. When the people didn't want to play the enabling game anymore, they went on the long sad list of people that had hurt him.

Somewhere a ways down the road in recovery, I understood that my guilt/fear about leaving were products of my sickness. I did not give my exAH any credit as an adult. I treated him like a child, taking care of everything and shielding him from responsibility and consequences, even as I screamed at him and pleaded with him to change. My behavior enabled him to stay sick because he had no reason to change. My guilt over even just the thought of leaving kept me paralyzed for a really long time. I can still sorta feel a sick feeling in my stomach when I think back to it. It was extremely powerful.

Whether you leave or not, it's important to keep in mind that it is simply not your responsibilty to take care of an alcoholic. We can love and have compassion, sure. But the other person was perfectly able to take care of themselves before we got involved with them - and they would be fine to do so if they had to now.

I, too, grew up with an alcoholic parent - my mother. It was hard. It was made harder by the incredibly secret nature of the whole situation in my family. Nobody talked about my mom's drinking - if I ever mentioned it, I was quickly told that there was no problem but to shut up immediately because if my mom heard me she'd be upset. Nobody wanted to upset my mom, so we all walked on eggshells. My stepfather, who needed Alanon but didn't go, was even more scary and insane than my actively drinking mother, believe it or not. Alcoholism was truly the elephant in the room. My oldest son (my child with my exAH) has an alcoholic father that he doesn't live with - but he knows something isn't right. I've talked a lot about alcoholism with my son (he is 9), and I hope that he will be able to process the effects of the disease on his loved ones easier than I was because it's out in the open. Mostly, I want him to see that it is possible to make a choice to rise above whatever the circumstances are. We are not powerless over our own lives.

Blessings, usedtobe :)

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

You already got the feedback I would most want to give. You are not responsible for the consequences of your wife's drinking. There is a fine line between what you might think would destroy her and what might make her have a spiritual awakening needed to grasp recovery. That is not for you to decide. You just do what is right by your HP and for your kids.

carolinagirl · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi,
First off, there is absolutely nothing for YOU to feel guilty about! I know I used to feel so responsible for my ex husband when I first came here and I accepted things that were COMPLETELY unacceptable. Living with an alcoholic is like brainwashing in my opinion. We are TRAINED to feel guilty and make ourselves responsible for what OTHER PEOPLE DO! Your wife made that choice. Your children are your top priority and their safety is in jeopardy with her. You cannot predict what someone will do as a response to your actions. I thought my ex husband would do all kinds of things when I left him. Granted his life went downhill and he is sitting in prison once again BUT I don't want to be the glue that binds everything together anymore. I want to be part of something not responsible for another person who should be responsible for themselves. I have been raising 3 kids alone in a place 3000 miles from my home and I have survived. I can say without hesitation that the longer children are in an alcoholic/addict environment the more it affets them. I have 2 daughters who are 16 and 11 and both are in therapeutic foster care because of their horiffic behavior problems. On the other hand I have a 9 year old son who is great and well adjusted. I don't know how much of that is genetic and how much is environment (the girls have a different father) but I do know that both girls demonstrate manipulative behaviors that look just like addict behavior. I have learned from my experience that nipping it in the bud (speaking of with the kids and early intervention) is much better than letting it rage out of control and hoping it will get better. On a side note you can love someone more than life and still realize that they are not good for you and you can't be with them. Love and togetherness are not necessarily the same thing. Your children need stability and safety and that is their RIGHT. As the sober sane parent it is your responsibility to protect them. What she does is what she does. What you do is what you do. You cannot CAUSE her to do anything she makes the choices about her actions. Hope that helps some, I know it took me a while of being here to really get over the guilt that I placed upon myself. I promise it gets better.

clep · Senior Member

This post really struck me. I was in much the same situation a couple of years ago. I was devistated, not wanting my relationship to end, but seeing that as the only answer long term. My problem was really not my A or his drinking, it was me. My reactions, projections, worrying, obsession and unwillingness to see my part in it all.

My father was an A and I chose an A for that reason. I put my children through just as much as my A did via lack of skills and knowledge. I didn't mean to, just like my A didn't. I knew the type of environment I wanted my children to live in, but I was unable to provide it because I was sick too. I had to forget about my A and his drinking, put boundaries in place to keep my children safe and work a strong program of recovery.

Your four year old probably does know things aren't right in the home. My son did too. He will always have an A for a dad and I can't change that. I can learn, grow and work a program so I can be a good person, mom and be able to model that to my son. I can pass down what I know now and give him the chance I never had. Now when there are tough times with dad or myself as we are both sick, it is a learning experience. It is a chance to grow for us all. I can't save my son from this disease, but I can arm him at an early age.

"I know I'm projecting and I know I need to focus on one day at a time. Things feel hopeless now but the one thing I am confident in is we are both doing the right things to try and make the situation better; by making us as individuals better. And for now, that is what matters."

Sometimes it is nice just to vent. We can't always be perfect and we wouldn't be human if we didn't think of the future at times. Nice to see in your line above you aren't dwelling on it.

In my life that is what mattered too and our family is now something I never thought it could be.

Blessings

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

I lived with an alcoholic for many years and the things he did around driving really ate me up. I kept trying to process them but there is really nothing that makes sense about someone totally putting themselves and others at risk.

In al anon one of the recommendations is to look at a plan be. That is to look at all the issues involved in leaving before deciding whether or not that is an option. I know for me that kept me out of the pain, despair and overwhelming feelings of responsibility I had for the ex A.

Maresie

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.