The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Ok, so the meeting are late as heck...that's my bad excuse.
My good excuse is that I'm afraid of detachment.
I love my husband. (I know the rest of you love your spouses too) I don't want a divorce. I want my husband back without the worry of him turning to full-blow alcoholism. I want the days back when he didn't lie to me about anything - whether because he was hiding somethign or because he wanted to spare my feelings.
I don't want to start living my life for me and only me - we do EVERYTHING together. We are serious gamers (we used to be anyway, before having kids!!) and we play together and like to eat out and cook together, we like the same movies. We're not just a married couple that goes their separate ways on the weekends, we hang out like BFFs :)
He's my best friend and I feel like if I go to Alanon people will just tell me to stop doing things with him, stop letting him affect you, stop reacting to "his problem", or the one I really dont want to consider.......leave him.
I don't want to believe that I'm in need of Alanon.
I think some might be offended by this post. Or see themselves in it. But isn't it true that "misery loves company"? If I go to a meeting, aren't there going to be people there that want to convince me that my husband is beyond my help? Yes, MY help, not helping himself......but just being helped by me.
I have an appointment with a therapist today...sounds like I need it eh??????
I think there may be some confusion between "detachment" and "separation" here. Separation is when you move apart physically. Detachment is about not letting his moodiness ruin your day -- or your gaming, cooking, watching movies together, or whatever else you choose to do. It's about not getting furious if he shows up drunk and ending the day with both of you in a terrible mood. It's not about pretending not to be furious -- it's about genuinely being happy with your life, however you choose to live it, whether doing everything together or not.
Even Al-Anon can't stop your husband from drinking -- because nobody can except him. You will be the one to discover whether the tool of loving detachment means that you can stay in the relationship as it works now and find that good. If not, you may choose to separate. But Al-Anon will never tell you to separate. It's just that some people in Al-Anon do. But many people in Al-Anon succeed with loving detachment. It's the best hope alcoholic relationship have.
I hope you'll find a meeting you like and learn more about Al-Anon and loving detachment. Hugs.
-- Edited by Mattie on Monday 21st of March 2011 01:35:38 PM
Hi Nadja, Yea, I hear ya. And it sounds like you have the marriage that I want....and I thought I had. But the fact is, he is moving away from you because of the drinking. That is what the drinking does. It always does eventually. Maybe you can see it a little, or maybe not. You don't want to move away from him with the AlAnon. You don't have to. You can keep things with yourself exactly the same and enjoy the same stuff. But be aware that the disease is progressing in him.
I understand your concerns regarding Al-Anon and appreciate your honesty.
I have debated on attending them for many years for a number of reasons. Finally, I decided that it wouldn't hurt if I checked them out myself and see if my assumptions are correct.
I have only attended two different meetings within the last week. Both meetings lasted about 90 minutes. There was no pressure what so ever. Members did not give advice. They shared their experiences, strengths and hopes. Some chose to listen to others and not share (speak) and all seemed to respect their choice. Not one person tried to convince anybody of anything. No advice was given or even hinted at.
For me, the jury is still out as far as if Al-Anon meetings are beneficial to me. But I have decided to stick around long enough to find out. That way, I know for certain, instead of always wondering if I should or shouldn't attend meetings.
One Al-Anon member suggested that I attended at least 6 meetings before deciding. I had already decided to attend twice a week (if possible) for 6 months before deciding.
So far, the two meetings I have attended have not confirmed my preconceived notions of Al-Anon.
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Wow Nadjja - I'm not offended by your post, but if your theories were correct, that would mean all Al-Anoners join for the sole purpose of divorcing their A's and don't really love them, so all good & well meaning people who love their A's would never go the Al-Anon route???
Al-Anon doesn't suggest/support divorcing your A any more (or less) than they suggest/support staying with your A.... Al-Anon teaches us helpful ways that we can learn (or re-learn) to care for ourselves, regardless of what is going on around us.
I would highly recommend that you read Toby Rice Drew's "Getting Them Sober", volume one, as it explains these issues far greater than I ever could. Al-Anon is not the destroyer of marriage or relationships - quite the opposite..
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I remember when I started going to Al-anon it was because my A was going to leave our family. I couldn't imangine my life without him. His progressive disease and the mental insanity of it all finally took it's toll. I was deeply upset when the members of Al-anon would not tell me what to do, advise me of anything or give their opinions on my situation. I really wanted that. I wanted them to tell me I was right, he was wrong and that I should just leave the sorry individual he had become in the dust. I didn't want to be without him and hated that, since I knew he was treating me poorly. I just didn't know how to let go of my dreams, and worked so hard to make them happen.
Imagine how upset I was when these people were actually compassionate with the alcoholics in their lives. I thought it would be just better to leave them as it seemed to me that the people in Al-anon had no self respect to be putting up with that garbage.
I soon came to realize that what I learned in Al-anon was another more effective way to aid in my dreams coming true in a positive way. My A and I reconcilled just over a year ago. There have been times when I want to strangle him and times I have thought of leaving him. I then call an Al-anon member, read a book or go to a meeting and all is better for me again. I learned that I don't have to leave him. I learned other options of being able to love him and myself at the same time. My son has his mom and dad, I have the love of my life and I get to learn skills to become a better person in the process.
I remember thinking much the same way you do. I happened to want what you don't in the beginning, and turns out I didn't find that. I am confident you wouldn't find that either. :)
Alanon doesn't give advice just experience, strength, and hope. I too love my AHsober but he left. We have a thirty year history and three sons and lots of memories together. Not going to Alanon won't change that. Alcoholism is cunning, baffling, and powerful. We learn to let go and let god.
Not sure if you remember, but when I first responded to you I mentioned feeling like attending al-anon meetings would be a "betrayal" of my wife. I felt the same way about my wife that you do about your husband, it was not Al-anon that caused my marriage to deteriorate, it was the sneaking around, and manipulation that comes with addiction and my controlling response to it that at least contributed in a major way the slow painful loss of trust. In fact the only semblance of advice I have received from Al-anon "hard cores" regarding my marriage was to have patience and compassion with my wife, I was never told to leave (we seperated before my first meeting), and I have never heard anyone else encouraged to leave their spouse. Detachment refers to the disease, not the person. The main thing that has enabled me to accept whatever changes happen in my marriage is the knowlege the I can still care and love my wife as much as I ever have in the past. I may lose her to the disease, I may lose her because we are not right for each other, but I have complete control over whether or not I choose to still love my wife. I need to accpet her wishes and accept any changes that come in the relationship, but my feelings remain and that is a comfort to me.
I know that I had no control over the progression of my wife's disease, I do not know and it really doesn't matter if the insights I recieved from Al-anon would have helped my marriage. What I do know is that it has helped me at a time when I needed it most.
Right now my wife is in rehab, I can say that I "apply the program " every day with my teenager. He is not my qualifier, but what you can gain from this program can be applied to all areas of your life.
It's important to know that I am sharing my experience with you and I do not claim to have any special knowlege of your husband, you can either relate to my experience, or find that my situation is different from yours.
Al-Anon as I have stated in prior posts on MIP has been a life saver for me. I have also stated that I made a decision after my first f2f meeting to try the program, accept the program, trust the progran, and work the program. My reasoning....My life was unmanageable, and out of control. I knew the program had worked for others worldwide for over 50 years and I knew what I had tried during the prior 7 years had not.
Why would I not want to give a proven and tested program a "try" and the benefit of the doubt? I remember at the first meeting in the reading it stated...."If you keep an open mind you can find help". When I walked through the doors that first night I needed help. What I had been doing I had to admit was not and had not worked. What did I have to lose? I had no preconceived ideas or negative thougths about the program. If I had allowed that to happen, how could I keep an open mind?
Why did I decide to "accept" the program? If I were willing to try the program I felt it would be in my best interest to accept what I was trying. Put my best foot forward. Give it my best try, and again....keep an open mind in the process.
Why did I decide to "trust" the program? After trying and accepting the program, and attending two f2f meeting each week I saw other members who had been efffected by this disease far greater than myself, who were happy, had serenity, and peace of mind. I had a burning desire to be like them, and have what they had, most important they wanted me to have what they had and over time they gave it to my by sharing their ES&H...not advice, but what had worked for them. I had tried and accepted the program and after few weeks of listening to some of the old timers give their experience, strenght, and hope my ears and my eyes told me to trust the program.
Why did I decide to "work the program"? For all the above and much more, and I'm not the exception, I'm the rule. In my almost five years in the program I have seen many new members come through the doors. I have seen some come to only one meeting, others two, three, or four and never come back. Everyone comes for different reasons and expects different result. I have also witnessed ladies coming to their first meeting with their head in their hands, with little hope, crying almost the entire meeting, but returning the next week, and the next, and the next, trying the program in hopes their life will get better. Of those who "Kept Coming Back" each has been a success story.
Al-Anon is not about the alcoholic in our lives. Al-Anon is about puting the focus on ourselves , taking care of ourselves first, making decisions with our own free will, and in doing so making our lives better. My life is better, my life is manageable, I learned how to be happy whether the alcoholic in my life is drinking or not. Al-Anon is not for everyone and before I decided that for myself, I made one of the best decisions I ever made.....to try, accept, trust, and work the Al-Anon program to the best of my ability, and always with and open mind. I take what I like and leave the rest.
Nadjjaa, detachment is not about leaving your A and Al-Anon will not tell you or even advise you to do that. I don't have any meetings near me but I have worked the steps on line (perhaps not as well as I should have!) and have the literature. It has helped me immensely - as has MIP. I now realise I cannot change my AH and it is certainly not my fault he is the way he is. I haven't left him because deep down I still care for him and he is dependant on me both financially and physically. However, I have my own room - my space - and I go out, see my friends and my family. It was hard to go out without him at first but now it is what keeps me sane. You really have to do whatever is best for you. Only you know that - no-one can tell you, certainly not Al-Anon.
Pleased you have found MIP - as I have found for myself, the support here is awesome .
I attended my first meeting tonight and I definitely do not think anyone would tell you to stop being with, or doing things with, your husband. One of the main premises of Al-Anon is not telling others how to live or judging their situations. What is right for you will always be different from what is right for someone else. You and your husband obviously still have love and a bond and that is great! I don't think detachment means leaving the person. For some people it does but for others it simply means just giving the same love and attention to yourself as you do to the alcoholic. I truly believe that any healthy relationship will survive each person having their own identity and taking care of themselves. (((HUGS))) to you! It's hard...it took me 3 years to walk into this meeting, but through the help of this board I finally found the courage. Hang in there!
Hi Dawn I too believed that if I attended alanon my marriage would be over and I would be alone The reason for that is that I had constructed a huge system of DENIAL and Pretend in my relationship. I denied the reality of my life and marriage and pretended it was fine and beautiful.
I did think when I came to alanon that these destructive tools wiould be taken away and I would have to leave the painful relationship.
Much to the contrary , Alanon gave me constuctive tools to live by . I could live in the true reality of my life, be honest, loving, compassionate and all I had to do was: attend meetings, keep the focus on myself and live one day at a time with faith in a Higher power
Sounds easy but walks hard It and you are worth it.
Alanon does not give advice - so if you're hesitant to go because you think someone will push you to file for divorce, you can rest assured it won't happen.
My AH and I do a ton of stuff together. Sometimes we go to open meetings together when we're having date night ... not too often, because we feel like we are actually 2 separate people with separate recovery journies. But we work out together, cook together, watch our children play together, etc. I've never felt like anyone in Alanon was telling me that I needed to spend less time with him. The lessons I've learned have focused on healthier time ... not doing things for him that he can do for himself, not enabling the disease when it was active, not trying to control him or get him to do what I want, being respectful of his personal space and boundaries, and learning that I am an individual and I, too, can have boundaries. These are things I do to become healthier and thus happier - not things I do so that I can live a life of isolation because I've thrown all the A's out of my life.
Alanon has helped me indescribably in other alcoholic relationships, too - not just my marriage. My mom is an A, and still active. The program has helped me learn how to deal with her kindly and with compassion, instead of getting angry and/or hurt when she's drinking. This has been invaluable for my own serenity.
I really love my husband Nadjjaa, and I don't want a divorce either; but i think its inevitable, and it makes me incredibly sad. But I cannot go on living in the madness, it has to stop, and the only way to stop it is to just.... stop. I think we all REALLY love our A; but somewhere along the way we realize that loving them, is not helping them. It's just so sad, isn't it?
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
IMO, detachment HELPS a relationship. When you learn to seperate the disease from the person it allows you to enjoy the person, focusing less on the disease.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Hi nadjjaa, I can relate and I had similar thoughts before Alanon. I hesitated and resisted it for so long, I didn't want to be "one of those people", I justified and rationalized away....
No one will tell you what to do, I've never gotten advice, not even in the beginning when I wanted it! People just share their experiences....and I saw so much of myself, my thoughts, my feelings, my experiences, in others - it was a relief, I felt ... understood, finally!
Like you, and I'm sure many others, me and my husband were best friends, did so much together, were always there for each other, laughed all the time, had the same weird, inappropriate sense of humor, were goofy and played around, acted like kids, felt like kids, acted like teenagers in love, ect... like the cheese fest you get from a romantic comedy. I didn't want to stop loving him, or stop caring or stop whatever....
I learned a couple things with respect to all of the above so far. The first, I was in denial, BIG time, about our relationship and how we had become...denial is SO SO powerful, it's just crazy the power denial had... I did not see what was quite often literally directly in front of my face. Second, I learned to love myself and be there for my husband in a healthy way, not an enabler. Not in the miserable, psychotic wife on a screaming rampage kind of way.
Instead of anger and resentment, I learned compassion. It feels wonderful and in many ways, I fell in love with my husband in a new way.....
When I slowly started letting go and let him be.... he started seeing himself, being responsible for himself, having to rely on himself, and wanting to get better and admitted he was an A. This wasn't over night...and not always a straight upward positive path all the time...But, when I stopped 'saving him' he had to start saving himself.... that is, I think, the best thing we can do for them, unfortunately, it is also often times the hardest.
Someone above recommended "Getting them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews - I highly recommend that book as well. It was a real eye opener for me.
Wow where did you get the idea that someone would tell you to leave your husb. no one working this program would ever tell you to leave we are after all called Al-Anon family groups and to me that has always meant to help keep families together if possible . We learn to detach from thier behavior to not let thier drinking run our lives too we detach with love and allow them the dignity to live thier lives the way they choose no judgement just acceptance of who they are and love them anyway. I have been married for 45 yrs , 20 yrs of sobriety in our home and life just gets better thanks to what i have learned in this program . I have alife separate from my husb , he has a life with friends of his own and we have a life together , we no longer depend on each other to make us happy , having him in my life is a bonus .. I am responsible for my own happiness , if your husb drinking is bothering you enough to reach out here Al-Anon will help . Louise
In all relationships you have to have some things just for you and some things just for him. You come together and share a lot, but you don't necessarily want to share everything. His recovery HAS to be his and yours has to be yours. That way, when you come together, you are both stronger. You don't have to leave, you just have to nourish yourself and he has to do the same for things to work. Don't look too far down the future. What you are describing are the same fears that people have when they go into AA and try and imagine never drinking again...too overwhelming. Alanon should help you focus on dealing with your husbands alcoholism and focusing on your own needs as best you can TODAY. You do not know what the future holds. None of us do...
Hi there...I am new to Al-Anon myself and I have to say that I did NOT want to go to meetings. I thought that I didn't need to get help because I didn't have a problem; it was the alcoholics in my life that needed to be fixed. And I tried to fix them for a really long time. I put my own happiness in harms way just to make others happy. If you don't want to go to meetings, don't. But I think you want to feel better then you do now, right? Maybe sharing some of your feelings and confusion and frustration at a meeting will make you feel better and someone will relate to you. No one will try to convince you of anything, because no one else has the answers. Everyone in those rooms loves someone just the same as you love your husband...we all want to fix our loved ones, but we need to fix ourselves. Hope things start to look up for you!
