Lies - Al-Anon Family Group

Very Very Tired · Senior Member

Lies

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

I had to stop responding, assume it was a lie, and then decide what I was going to do. In my experience, confronting the A (even with a ton of proof in my hand) just resulted in more lies, and all of them were good enough talkers that I'd eventually start believing the lies and then be disappointed and hurt later.

I had to stop listening to words and watch actions instead. When I knew something was a lie, I KNEW it - I learned to stop asking the A to affirm what I already knew (for me, this meant stop asking questions when I already knew the answer). I didn't need affirmation of what I knew to be true.

I also had to stop searching for evidence, because this kept me sick. Sometimes searching for evidence made me physically sick.

The long and short point of it was that he was lying. He was the one that got to carry the consequences for lying. To get healthy, I had to get the focus off of what he was doing wrong and put the focus on getting myself better.

stephaniej · Senior Member

I had the same reaction as White Rabbit...searching for proof of things caused a very definite physical reaction for me. My heart would race, my stomach would get upset, I couldn't sleep.

I also just assume that things are lies. One of the ironies in my situation is that the lies are usually about dumb, little things...things that it makes no sense to lie about. But of course, he is sick, and not rational, so naturally he would lie about things that are completely pointless. I do not confront him with those lies. It accomplishes nothing, and merely upsets my serenity.

I can imagine a scenario where a lie would be so big and so hurtful that it would tip the scales in favor of me leaving (for example, if I learned unequivocally that he was cheating on me). In that situation, I can imagine telling him in a non-confrontational way that I know he was engaging in behavior that crossed one of my boundaries, and that I may have to leave the marriage to preserve my own emotional well-being. But I would think long and hard before having that conversation, I would make sure I evaluated my motivation very carefully, and I would not allow the conversation to turn into a debate about what "really" happened. Like White Rabbit said...I know what I know, and it's not open for a big discussion or an attempt by my AH to explain something away or justify his behavior or try to convince me that I'm wrong. I would stick to communicating the facts, stating my boundaries, and articulating the consequences of crossing my boundaries (and then following through with those consequences). But again...that kind of conversation would be reserved only for something *really* big...not the random, dumb stuff he lies about on a daily basis. That crap isn't worth the drama.

NCSUgeology · Veteran Member

My brother is a master with lying when it comes to drinking. There is ALWAYS an explanation for his behavior and speech (medication; only got 3 hours of sleep last night, etc). He's bipolar as well, so these excuses could be the source of slow, slurred speech for a normal person that doesn't drink. The biggest problem I have is that he never had that type of speech when he was in jail, or in the hospital, or in treatment. He has learned that if his psychiatrist won't prescribe him something, all he has to do is go to his doctor, and he will. Xanex is a perfect example of what he did recently.

When I confronted him, he'd try an change the subject, and that made me even more mad. I finally learned to stop confronting when I knew it was a lie. It wasn't worth my time, or the emotional effort I put into it.

My post was simply dealing with dumb, everyday lies. Something bigger, and I would exactly Steph said. Stick to the facts, and not open to discussion of why, how, etc.

-- Edited by NCSUgeology on Thursday 3rd of March 2011 11:52:39 AM

Very Very Tired · Senior Member

Thank you! Hearing your experiences is helping.

I have set a boundary for myself: I will not ask my AH questions (the "where were you" or "what were you doing" questions). Instead, I make statements. For example, I say without anger: "When I tried to call you, your cell phone was turned off." Period. End of statement. No further discussion. This is what I experienced. I know this to be my truth.

I also have stopped searching for proof of lies. As others have said, I have a very physical reaction when I search: shaking, getting sick to my stomach, increasing heart rate, etc. When something is a lie, my gut tells me (I guess I could also call it my HP showing me the way).

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree with all that WhiteRabbit wrote.

Yes, listen to your gut (intuition or your HP). It doesn't matter what you call it. "It" doesn't care, either (my opinion).

Trust yourself. That's the key to happiness. Be independent of other people's opinions.

Many of us, including myself, were not taught to trust ourselves. We must unlearn this for ourselves and those of us who have children.

searching4peace · Veteran Member

This thread came at the perfect time for me. As I am struggling to find the line between where I end and where AH begins I am learning that my truth and his truth don't always mesh. And they don't need to. I don't need him to validate my experiences. And one of the quickest ways to get off the merry go round is to stop expecting his view and my view to match.

He is a sick and twisted person right now. So am I.

He lies. So do I.

But I am making an effort to become honest, both with myself and others. So I am making an effort to stop asking questions I already know the answer to. To stop trying to get our points of view to match. And to stop confronting him over every single lie or potential lie. And to stop looking for evidence. It isn't worth the pain it causes me. And 8 years of experience speak to the fact that it certainly doesn't help. So instead of continuing with behavior that perpetuates both our illnesses I am trying something different. I'm letting his lies belong to him. They don't shape my truth any longer.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

The addict brain is compromised. We can say a lie and we hear ourselves and know it is one. But the addict, does not know its a lie. They hear themselves and it comes back as truth.

They can be stumbling drunk and believer they drank nothing. Its the "nature" of an addict to lie.

Another reason is denial. The truth is so horrible, they feel so guilty they again do not see or know they are lieing.

Myself I don't ask questions. None of my business. His disease is his own. I do much better taking care of me.

Its hard when it is a spouse or your child, but that is how it is. Our relationships with addicts are never going to be like a relationship with a non addict.

I know too from experience that denial is a real, scarey thing! I honestly did not see my A was relapsing. My brain was protecting me.

I don't trust anyone but myself. I have explained that I am happy if someone comes thru, or shows up. If they don't, I accept them and love them as is. I trust HP of course. But humans are all imperfect, I just won't set people up like that. It honestly has made my life so so much easier.

I trust everyone does their best.

Hon when they lie it is nothing personal. Its not against you. If we can learn to take this into consideration it helps so much.

My ex AH got yet another dui, felony one this time. Not two mo. later he told me he had not drank for a year. I said nothing. I just though in my head how very sad, and how very sick he is.

Many many addicts are very nice people! They cannot stand what they have become. Its a horrible reality. They don't choose to be an addict, they are born that way.

That little thing, a frog gives a worm a ride across the creek. Talking and laughing with the worm, like old friends. Before he gets to the land, he eats the worm!

Another worm asks him WHY did you to that???? frog says, "thats my nature."

Hugs debilyn

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Great response Searching.

I too discovered that I lied and manipulated and told half truths but I was always able to justify my actions.
I am so grateful for this progam and the tools that have enabled me to be a healthy compassionate, partner who still knows how to take care of myself

Just keep coming back and working the progam You are worth it.

clep · Senior Member

I decided to stop trying to find out if he was lying or what he was lying about. It didn`t really matter. An alcoholic that does not have a strong program of recovery is a compulsive liar. It is part of the nature of the disease.

I don`t ask if he is lying, and don`t care really. I spent so much time trying to get him to admit he was lying and it was wasted time. When he knew I had really had enough, he would tell me the truth but that was just a hook that I was more than ready to latch onto. Really I kept the game going.

I KNEW when he was lying. I could feel it and logically work it out. It is so easy, it is like a two year old telling me they didn`t poop their pants when it has stunk up the whole floor of the house we are standing on. That was the part that infuriated me. That his lies are so obvious, yet he still keeps lying. He lied about lying.

I know some people say that the A doesn`t know when they are lying. I don`t know with others, but my A says he knew he was lying. He lied to justify, deny, minimize, blame and every other tactic that came so naturally to him.

All of that used to matter to me. It doesn`t anymore. I don`t have to concentrate on him as I am taking precious energy away from myself and my own program. Every lie he tells chips away at his self worth and that does sadden me, but I am powerless over that too.

I don`t try to get him to admit it anymore or talk with him about it. I just go with my own ideas, use my program to deal with it and go on my way.

oscarmom · Member

my husband has been sober a year now. that is great, but I still have a hard time believing anything he says. he lied for 30 years, once bitten twice shy I guess. maybe over time the trust and belief will come back. right now I am still in suspicious mode. he was home sick last week ( flu) and my first thought was " is this that fake hangover flu, or for real?" it seems like our minds just default back to that thinking, we've lived that way for so long

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