Still drawn to the "bad boys" - Al-Anon Family Group

Overcome · Senior Member

Still drawn to the "bad boys"

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

This is such a good topic.

I'm coming to think of it this way. I might be initially attracted to some people, but that doesn't mean I have to give in to my self-destructive impulses. Sometimes it's everything I can do to keep from getting in touch with my addict ex and say, "Let's get back together!" I think, "It felt so good! I know I can make it work this time!"

But really I know that's just the craving for what he seems to represent. It didn't work out like that, and it wouldn't work out like that no matter how hard I tried. I'm just going to the hardware store for bread. I see my ex and to me the sign reads BREAD. But it's still the hardware store. What I'm really craving is bread.

Sometimes I get fooled because the chaos is so familiar, it seems like home. Sometimes I get fooled because the person says all the right thing, and I believe his words and not his actions. Sometimes I get fooled because my craving is so strong that I barge ahead despite all the clear signs that this is a bad idea.

The more I turn away from those people who are bad for me, the more I can find people who say "Bread" and really do have bread to offer. Because I'm convinced that's what I want, deep down.

I don't know if this makes any sense! I guess the summary is that I have strong cravings, and I dash ahead without looking where I'm going. When I look at people who have successful relationships, they like the heady emotions, but also in the early stages they keep their wits about them. They know "Feelings aren't facts." They don't judge the person just by how strong the emotions are. They also keep tabs on how the relationship is really working out, and if it's not working, they move on. They're the people who actually get the bread. If you follow me. Hope that makes sense!

-- Edited by Mattie on Friday 25th of February 2011 08:55:38 AM

ythannah · Senior Member

Love the poem, Overcome!

No easy answers from me, I'm afraid -- just a whole lot of empathy, because I'm in the same boat. Although I didn't always choose alcoholic partners, I still managed to find the emotionally unavailable or critical punishing parent men.

What bothers me the most is that it seems to be a completely reciprocal process, in that the 'bad boys' are the only ones who are attracted to me in return, as if I have some invisible come-hither sign that only they can see. Whatever this undercurrent is, it operates without me having to even smile or speak -- all I have to do is walk into the room, and the alcoholics will light up like they've just won the lottery. As for the 'nice' guys, I might as well be invisible.

So my own attraction to the 'bad boys' is partly something intrinsic to me, and partly the scarcity of any other options. When the 'nice' guys have zero interest in you and the bad ones are pursuing you relentlessly, it's not hard to take the path of least resistance. Particularly when you have painfully low self esteem, as I do.

And I have no idea what to do about it. cry

B_L · Member

I'm right there with you, although attracted to a different gender.

I used to pursue women who made me look normal by comparison. That was really something, because I was about as weird of a young man as can be contemplated. They had to go well beyond "a little off" all the way to "completely nuts" to fit my criteria. But then I got sick of the lies and cheating and having my head busted open with a well-thrown toaster as I slept, and figured I would give a different "type" a go...

Met a nice woman in school. Then I learned the reason she was so perky was that she was an amphetamine addict. Great.

Then I met, and fell deeply in love with my current girlfriend. She's nice and caring and hot as blazes, a fantastic cook, I love her family and her family loves me, she loves my family and my family loves her, our personalities mesh wonderfully... but she's a terrible alcoholic.

I guess I didn't really throw off the old preferences after all.:)

I don't know what to do about it any more than you do, but you are not alone. Good luck.

shellyj123 · ~*Service Worker*~

Great topic Overcome, and great responses...I can relate to what everyone said.

For me there has always been an attraction to unavailable (emotionally or physically or both) men. For some reason, the more unavailable the more intrigued I was, and the better I felt. I knew they couldn't pursue me and I was in control (or so I thought at the time).

I found over time, that a lot of it is MY FEAR....single for such a long time, then fell hopelessly in love with a recovering AA, only to have my heart smashed again. Many many relationshops with A's I am now learning. My fear keeps me pursuing people that I know won't be there, my self low self esteem makes me stick my hand on the hot burner repeatedly, and then running to cool off. I NEVER let go of anything without claw marks on it:) Sad but true. The more abusive-mentally or physically (though mentally being the worst on me) the more I would fight to change him, knowing I could SAVE him...pure savior behavior. I KNOW in my head when it's not right, but someone told me once, that the longest/hardest twelve inches is from the head to the heart.

I have been dating again, somewhat. And for the past 4-6 months have been spending time with a 23 year sober NA/AA. He is an AMAZING person and I have learned and been lead very much by him. Would I have been attracted to him had I met him outside the rooms, at first site? Probably not at all. But the time spent in meetings (where we met) and the time spent together has SHOWN me little by little the man he is, and I LOVE being SHOWN instead of hearing CRAP and believing it. Feelings? I don't know what they are....I'm letting time take time and he knows I am not ready for a committment....we are more or less GREAT friends, just hanging out and working our own programs....but it's nice. It feels nice. He's not mean, or angry and there has never been an ill word between us.

There's still a draw to the "bad boys" though....almost a rush of trying to conquer them it seems so I understand, and am working on it.

I'm trying to let people be who they are and not what I want them to be. My HP is helping me, my home group helps me, my sponsor helps me and this forum helps me.

Thanks for letting me share
Shellyj

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I remember from somewhere that it is some of us like to tame the wild ones.

Or we like the challenge of being with one and they fall in love with you.

I know I, all my life have been attracted to the dogs that bit or the ones everyone said to stay away from. I always made friends with them.

I took months getting this one cat to come to me. A big grey stray. My poor parents, the cat had a constant cold and had to have a 60 cent pill a day. Back then, that was a lot!

Then I did the rescue and rehab. NOTHING was more challenging to me, and satisfying than to get one of those scared, horrible aggressive animals to let go and trust me.

Bad boys usually are very unsure of themselves. They have that big front. We find they love us and how they soften up just for us. I found it cool to have that guy want me, that guy everyone else wanted.

My husband was always wanted. Especially when he started playing in a famous band. I loved him all my life. I loved my first husband but it was nothing like the sureness of my ex.

Now I have NO idea where I am in that dept. Its been really interesting not being in love with him anymore.

I don't know who or if I can be attracted to anyone.

Anyway this is my experience. I agree for me I could not help that I was in love with him. I was as sure of it all my life as I knew I had a nose on my face. NEVER doubted it.

Good to see ya here! love,deb

Overcome · Senior Member

Debilyn wrote:

I remember from somewhere that it is some of us like to tame the wild ones...I know I, all my life have been attracted to the dogs that bit or the ones everyone said to stay away from. I always made friends with them.

Wow, that is so me! I used to be a vet tech and we had 13 Golden Retriever pups come in one day, about 6-8 months old. They were all friendly but this one. I worked weeks with him to try to get him tamed, as the others had all found homes, but no one wanted this one because he was so timid. He didn't want to walk on a leash and kept pulling and fightening. I was working with him one day and down on all fours trying to 'coax' him to me. He looked so scared and dismayed as though he had been abused. I reached out to him and he bit me. I screamed out at first and then started coaxing him again, saying, "No one is going to hurt you anymore little one. You are safe with me." He looked at me shyly and slowly inched towards me, climbed into my lap and whimpered. This pup who wouldn't let anyone touch him had literally climbed into my lap and lay there with me crying and crooning to him, "It's ok, I won't let anyone hurt you again. No one will ever hurt you again, ever." I kept my promise too, for I knew that a pound dog that bit had sealed his fate. He would be put humanly down after serving the required time in quarantine.

I think it's like you said, we want to tame what no one else has been able to tame. That somehow the person (or animal in this case) can relate only to me and be tamed only by me. In retrospect, I believe that this is akin to the "God complex" where I think I basically am God and can do only what God is meant to do. Another short-coming I need to work on.

Thanks for the animal analogy Debilyn.

Overcome

-- Edited by Overcome on Friday 25th of February 2011 02:10:30 PM

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

Author Andre de Saint Exupery wrote: "Love is not two people gazing at each other, but two people looking
ahead together in the same direction."

So it follows then that relationships last longer when both partners share similar values and beliefs.
Love should be a force that helps you expand your life. It seems that the saying "Love is blind"is true, seems
people often lose all objectivity when they fall in love.

But having the same belief system and values is so true. I recognized that the XAH came from a totally different
family value then I did. My family had values and his had none. Even though he was educated, we cannot escape
our early family environment.

Just thoughts about Love.

Thanks, Bettina

-- Edited by Bettina on Friday 25th of February 2011 06:47:00 PM

danielle0516 · Senior Member

Hi Overcome - great poem! Thank you for posting about this, I too agree, great topic and I feel I've gotten so much from reading every word of each response.

I haven't had that many relationships, I guess, compared to the average person. A couple month long things in high school, then the boyfriend I fell madly in love with, then I got pregnant and stayed with him for 2 years too long after I realized I grew up and he did not.

Then I went through a party phase in my early twenties for a few months, and well, that one guy was gone as fast as he came in. Then I met this great guy, he was nice, great job, treated me great, we had fun, but...well, he was a drug dealer on the side so, after a few months I thought, I don't want this for my child, so, I left. Then there was the emotionally unavailable depressed dude I worked with. I remember being attracted to him because I was ... intrigued. Why did he keep more to himself, why did he seem sad sometimes? What was it!!! Ooohhh boy did I wanna know. He did hang out in the group of friends I was a part of (this was a when I was about 21) so we spoke and eventually started dating. I knew he wasn't the one, but, I was having fun. 2 months in, I had enough - he was depressed, not willing to go to a doctor, ect... so I left.

Then, through what seemed like only fate, my good friend hooked up with a guy who was roomates with 'the one who got away' in high school. I thought I would never see him again....this had to be destiny I thought! (We had an intense connection (what did I know!) when I was 17, while I was on 'a break' from the boyfriend who later turned out to be the father of my kid). He broke up with his gf to be with me and well, I didn't follow suite and ended up back with my ex (dad of kid) but regretted it and still thought about this one guy all the time.

So, we all started hanging out at this house they all lived in together - me and this guy started hanging out, he was nice and we connected again and it felt intense - BUT, he was immature, irresponsible and smoked too much weed, but, I liked him anyway. It lasted the summer. I was a grown up, he was not.

Then, I was single for about a year, and then I met my husband in University (I was 22-23 I think). I thought he was perfect. PERFECT. I felt like I won the frickin lottery. He was EVERYTHING I wanted and more - the sweetest, most loving, caring, selfless, thoughtful, smartest, funniest, sexiest, most compassionate person ever. We always made eachother laugh, had the same sense of humor, same interests ect.. I knew I would marry him after the first date. Things were great for years and the seldom time he did get too drunk, I didn't really care cause it only happened once every 2-4 months so, no biggie. Well...we all no the rest of that story..it's progressive, little did I know it was alcoholism.

But, looking back, I think one of the things that attracted me, or made me feel more comfortable originally I guess, with my husband was that he was somewhat shy and a little awkward. So, I think I felt better, in comparison. I think I felt like I could help him 'come out of his shell'. He was by no means a 'Bad Boy', quite the opposite, but I think I felt better about myself for some reason, because I was more outgoing, talkative, ect.. than he was.

For me, looking back, although I always ended my relationships because it wasn't what I wanted, maybe I was always codependent in a way in that guys with 'issues' I didn't have, made me feel better about myself....and I felt,by being with me, that would help them reach their potential? or something? I dunno. I mean, I never outwardly had these thoughts, just in retrospect, I'm thinking maybe on some subconscious level, they were there...and made me feel good, hence the attractions.

Thanks for posting this, great topic. :)

Overcome · Senior Member

danielle,

boy was I attracted to "bad boys" and even at 16 I was the "good girl", didn't drink, went to church, didn't do drugs, wasn't promiscuous, didn't cuss...the typical "goody, two shoes" and boy it drove these "bad boys" mad! trying to figure out how to make me a "bad girl". I think that was the draw for them, to "win" me and "change" (mold) me into their liking, so not so different from myself, who wanted to "change" them and mold them into my liking..."save them".

I started out at 16, my bf 14, I a junior, he a freshman in high school. His dad was a drug dealer (by his admission) and his mom had been married 7 times, boy was he "needy" and I wanted to supply that need! My first "real" love (I consider the first one I mentioned 'puppy love') was himself a drug dealer unbeknownst to me, until a friend of mine came up to him at a party and wanted some "reds" boy was he mad at her! He shuttled her off to the side and as they were retreating I heard him say to her, "don't you EVER come up to me and ask me about that stuff with Lisa, she doesn't know!" Well needless to say I knew then and was appauled that not only my boyfriend was a drug dealer, but that a friend of mine 'used', boy was I niave!

Anyway, move onto A husband #1... a guy that epitomized the Pointer Sisters 1980 song "He's so shy".... He was SO cute! and shy too... but once "pumped up" on booze a firecracker! I barely escaped this 4.5 year marriage with my life...a physical abuser, as well as mental abuse......

Move on to A husband #2 .... a confident Army guy with a B.S. in Agriculture Business (my B.S. was in Animal Science), educated, well groomed, mannerly....but inwardly, the same guy as husband #1... a pschological and verbal (altho not physical) abuser, and definitely with a family history of alcoholism. His grandfather committing suicide because of alcoholism at a young age and leaving a wife and young child (his mother) behind. This husband was on the "fast-track", wanted to be a millionare by the time he was 30, didn't think I'd get him there, so divorced me after a year and a half, and did me a favor too!

Moving on to husband #3 ... boy was this one a chamelion! I met him at church (chamelion #1) said he hated drinking because his father was an alcoholic (chamelion #2) said he didn't want children because this world was such a horrible place that he didn't want to bring any more children into it. (this should have been a BIG red flag, I later learned) All kind of abuse abounded in this marriage. Spiritual, emotional, physical (abeit I only see it now in retrospect) psychological, mental (counselor actually told me that I had secondary Post-traumatic Stress Disorder from having dealt with his PTSD). It wasn't until after our child was born 5 years into the marriage that I realized my acoa husband had been sexually abused by his A father. The ramifications of that knowledge I still have to deal with to this day. The marriage almost lasted 12 years, but the fallout from this marriage will last a lifetime (because of having to deal with a pedophile)

Husband #4 .... by the time I met him, a dry drunk and "playboy" very much the "life" of the party, but in his prime a full-blown alcoholic experiencing black-outs, hallucinations, had medical complications such as esophageal varices (complications with the upper throat caused from the alcohol), towards the end the doctor told him he would probably have to have a liver transplant if he kept on drinking, but to my knowledge not a physical abuser...although I mistook him for such during the marriage because I had been so badly traumatized by husband #3.
This guy stole my heart because he 'wanted' so much to change. He 'wanted' spirituality, he 'wanted' to quit drinking (and did eventually, but without AA), and he 'wanted' me. I wanted to save him, to be the one to 'lead' him in to his spiritual path...boy did I want to play God! lol So, anyway, in the end that didn't work either.

Fiance #5 (actually #6, because I was engaged to drug-dealer bf also for a short time) Ok, this guy I 'picked' out because he was a 'nice guy'. He was not an alcoholic, not an abuser, didn't cuss, didn't drink, was actually GOOD to me, my mom and my daughter. Ok, see nothing wrong so far? Well, he was exacty like me. A co-dependent people-pleaser, a candidate for Al-anon, enabler of his alcoholic nephew/business partner. Ok, TOO much alike! That didn't work either.

There were a smattering of bf's and romances inbetween all these marriages (nothing like being addicted to love) all of whom in some way or another had the "bad boy" image (except the latter). So thanks to all who participated in this thread, it has been very helpful to me in seeing myself in others and some very good suggestions made. I hope this thread has been as much a help to all of you as it has been to me!

Cudos!
Overcome

danielle0516 · Senior Member

Hi Overcome, thanks for sharing that - it's good to see how I relate to others.

I'm still with my AH, but if we part, all I want in to be healthy and happy with myself...so I can attract and be attracted to another healthy person! ugg.. is that asking too much!? I am grateful that I at least have this awareness and willingness to change.

It's funny, now that I'm aware of all this stuff, read so many books, been to therapy, I feel like my eyes have been blasted open. I see all these unhealthy things going on it relationships around me that I didn't see before, or just passed off as drama or gossip and that's what people do, right? Even with friends and acquaintances of mine who's partners aren't A's, there are so many drama things people complain about...and I used to be right up in there joining in, feeling better about myself cause I wasn't like that person we were talking about, I knew, ect... really I was just not focusing on myself and feeling better by focusing on others - ugg.

Glad Lee - thanks for posting that info on the Love addiction book, very interesting. What does your "old" brain mean?

Thanks again for this post:)

-- Edited by danielle0516 on Saturday 26th of February 2011 10:30:31 AM

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

I had an interesting litmus test last night while I went out dancing with some friends. Actually it was one friend with a bunch of her friends whom I'd never met before. I immediately felt attracted to one of them, a man with a particular physical appearance I seem to be drawn to. He seemed interested in me as well.

Nice thing was, at least under first meeting him, he didn't act like a bad boy. My other "once bitten, twice shy" fear I have is that I'm attracted to gay men (my exAH turned out to be closeted gay, of which I only discovered his big secret after we'd gotten married). So I was sitting across the table from this attractive man thinking "oh... I think he's attractive. He's probably gay, and probably an alcoholic." I talked with my friend later, however, who assured me he's definitely NOT gay.

That was a breath of fresh air to me. Now, whether he's an alcoholic, however, I have no idea. He had a couple drinks, but that's pretty much all I could see out of this guy. Just way too hard for me to make an analysis of the guy after only talking to him very briefly one evening. He certainly didn't get smashed - seemed in control of himself, but then there's a large population of alcoholics out there who seem in control - doesn't mean they don't have a dependency issue that will eventually grow in to their losing control. And, I've seen my exAH drink socially - always appearing under control... and then he'd come home with a six pack of beer and drink until he'd pass out.

I did tell my friend I thought he was cute and she immediately wants to try and play match-maker. I told her I'd promised myself a year off from dating and relationships, though. But this morning I was reflecting on the evening and I was thinking to myself that just because I find a man physically attractive does not mean that we're compatible! I sometimes think the whole physical attraction thing is a deep down animalistic instinctual thing of pro-creation. We're attracted to our opposites because that ensures a diverse mix in the human gene-pool.

I guess where I'm going with this is that I'm still NOT ready to be dating. It was fun meeting someone and thinking he's attractive and finding out at least that I'm not cursed with being attracted to gay men. But perhaps that's all that encounter was supposed to be for me. Another thing I will continue to remind myself of is if someone seems to show mutual interest in me, it does NOT mean I need to start considering dating the guy!

Rhivenn · Member

I have this theory, having also been attracted to more than my fair share of the bad boys. The theory is this! (Men, feel free to swap sexes as necessary)

Men are like drugs! Some are like the illicit drugs: they make you feel intensely incredibly awesome, really quickly, but coming down off that high is agonizing. We stay, because we want that 'high' just one more time, just one more time, just one more time...we can control it, we're not addicted, we can walk away any time. The other men, are like prescription drugs: it takes longer to feel good with them; a gradual buildup to happiness and connection, and while there may be the occasional, mild side-effect, they're good for our entire being, on the whole...walking away from those men is not recommended without a Doctor's consent!

Rhiv

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

I've read all the replies to this topic, and I realize I'm the only man who dares to answer.LOL. As I read the thought crossed my mind that it's not what I know now, but what I didn't know then......twenty years ago.

I knew my wife for several years before we started dating because she was an officer at the bank where I do business . One Saturday afternoon she called me, first time there was any contact other than saying hello etc. at the bank. She said she had been laying out in her backyard drinking beer most of the afternoon and asked what I had been doing. I can't remember what I told her. Before the conversation was over I asked her if she wanted to go out for dinner, we did, and two years later after dating exclusively we got married.

At the time I didn't see a red flag. She loved beer, I loved her, and I didn't have a clue that beer one day wouldn't love either of us. I still love her and have no regrets. But this post made me realize that if I had "seen" then what I "know" now I might have been able to take off my rose colored glasses. Love wouldn't allow it, but today the program would.

By the way for you ladies information I never considered myself a "bad boy", but I was a"fixer" and one of the best I might add. Fifteen years later and five years ago when I walked through the doors of Al-Anon I realized I was the one who needed to be fixed.

HUGS,
RLC

-- Edited by RLC on Sunday 27th of February 2011 01:11:43 AM

Overcome · Senior Member

You are brave men B_L & RLC! LOL and an appreciated also. Thanks for your input, from a "guys" perspective, and fellow "fixers". I would love to hear more on this topic from you GUYS. JerryF, John, Canadianguy where are you? biggrin

-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 27th of February 2011 06:46:25 AM

-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 27th of February 2011 06:47:02 AM

-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 27th of February 2011 06:48:06 AM

-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 27th of February 2011 04:09:10 PM

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

RLC - maybe that's what it is, we aren't drawn to bad ones, but rather drawn to those that we see as good but in need of fixing because we are the fixers. So many posts talk about the wonderful person he/she is without the alcohol and there is a need in us to try to help that wonderful person be all they can be and if we love them enough........

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Okay I've read on this several times and haven't jumped in cause the title seemed
much inclusive and then I read R_L's response and RLC's and decided "okay maybe
this isn't so much "bad" boys as it is "bad" choices. I've made a ton of those and
some with alcoholic and alcoholic/addict women. Once a fixer always a fixer. I was
raised a fixer and it was expected of me. I was also raised to overlook "problems"
in others and accept them unconditionally however I didn't get the lesson part that
demanded no intimate relationships. So my intimate relationships with addicts and
alcoholics have been terrible and then I don't know of anyone who has or is having a
good relationship with one. I also learned that there isn't a perfect relationship so
then "life isn't about me getting everything I want everytime I want it."

I was a bad boy, crazy, impulsive given to risky behaviors. I am also recovering from
alcoholism. I had some relationships with very well put together women...women who
didn't "need" me and therefore those relationships were very short. There was more
value to a relationship with them than the others I chose however there was no crises,
chaos, emergencies, loud noises, fights, money problems, hospitalizations and treat-
ments, separations and more. B o r i n g. I needed action...I got ACTION.

I was born and raised into the disease of alcoholism. I inhereited all of it...drinker
and victim. I was told when I first got to Al-Anon that those like me had three
choices...be one, marry one, do both. I did both without intending to. I didn't intend
on being born into my family of orgin which has more than a passel of "Bad boys" and
"Bad girls".

Today I may have the compulsion toward those types of relationships still however
the problem is me and I am the one who needs to find and act out the solution. I can
and do walk away with the grace of God, my HP, what ever I have left I need to build on.

(((((hugs))))) smile

That makes 3 guys now...maybe Paul and John would like to input.

ythannah · Senior Member

I can definitely relate to being a "fixer". Even when my partners weren't alcoholic, I still chose men for whom I could be a cheerleader -- I could love and support and help them to overcome some hurdle, or live up to their full potential (as I saw it).

I think that, for me, being needed was a more secure bond than just being loved. Or, perhaps I didn't think they would ever love me enough to stay with me, and I should build in that extra dynamic for added security. Like if I transformed the guy into something better than he was before me, he'd be forever grateful to me -- and THAT was much better than mere love.

Yuck. hmm

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