"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Loonareclipse · Newbie

Fiancé has been sober for 1 year, is it too soon to get married this spring?

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

Loona: "... should I be insecure about his recovery?"

Can you see, you are insecure? You feel insecure, and that's okay. That's reasonable. Perfectly normal. Don't fight the little voice inside you that's saying, maybe I shouldn't. When I didn't listen to that voice... when I chose to see what I WANTED to see... I got myself into trouble. I didn't want to accept reality. It was my spiritual immaturity to demand from God, "I want what I want, dammit." Even if it's not real!!!

We can't tell you to feel something else, sweetie. Be where you are.

I would ask, what's the rush? Why hurry to get married? If it's right today, it's going to be right a year from now, 5 years from now.

In the program, I learned, "when in doubt.... DON'T."

I would say, an al-anon meeting is the perfect place to talk about whatever is on your mind if you are affected by alcoholism. Even if you speak off-topic, you go there to be where you are. That is what I did, and, in fact, some didn't like it (which only demonstrated their need for al-anon, lol) My sponsor told me, my early recovery was all about Me.

-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 17th of February 2011 06:33:04 PM

-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 17th of February 2011 06:42:23 PM

Loonareclipse · Newbie

Glad Lee, thanks for your quick response. You are absolutely right, I am insecure. But one of MY issues is being confused about what I want and what the people I love want. And I wasn't insecure at all until my parents started piping up (a bit late in the game, if you ask me--the invitations have already been mailed) about their fears.

As I said, I beleive in my man 100%. I see the way he is handling his recovery and I know that he's serious about it. Isn't that what matters most?!

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

Loona... I would think that if you truly believed in what you were doing 100%, you might not be asking? You would do it without a second thought.

I can only give you my ESH. I have known a few divorced women, (myself included) who had a "knowing" that they shouldn't be walking down that aisle. A few of us did it because we couldn't face the embarrassment of canceling the wedding, the invitations had been mailed.

Trust me on this, it is not too late. I'm not suggesting you should NEVER marry him, not at all. I happen to love my AA fellowship, if he's working it hard, he is part of my family of Choice!! But under these conditions, you may want to WAIT (which is really hard because we like to hurry up and force solutions.) You may want to marry at a later date. If it were me... I would want the support of the people closest to me. Give recovery some time, it must come first. I heard recently, 2 D students don't make an A relationship, that's just the way it is.

My best suggestion is to get to a meeting every chance you get... find a sponsor who is going to put you on the fast track, it is my most valued tool of recovery... and with that in place, you may get more clarity. You and your fiance will be in the best position for a happy future.

You are still together, that's the bright spot! I'm smiling for you because... it's not all negative. Just a lil' bump. (((hugs)))

-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 17th of February 2011 07:20:34 PM

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Looner, and welcome to MIP.... I don't have much to add, other than I fully concur with Glad Lee's reply....

You say he's serious about his recovery, and I guess there are reasons to see that, in he is reading his literature, etc.... Unfortunately, the statistics for alcoholics "doing it on their own" are not very promising, and he's veteran enough in his recovery to know that AA, sponsorship, etc. is the best way for total and absolute sobriety....

Have you had this conversation with him?? He sounds like a great guy, who feels he has a handle on his sobriety, this time around.... Perhaps he is open to a good honest discussion with you, talking of your fears of his chosen path of 'sobriety without AA', etc......

Ultimately it is what you and your fiance are comfortable with - and not your parents.... That being said, I'm sure your parents are also acting out of fear for you and what "might happen" right now, and I think we can all understand that.....

Take care
Tom

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi again Loona, I hope to make something clear, I don't mean to co-sign what your fiance is doing, I would consider it a "half-measure" at best. (some would say, half-assed.) If it were me, I would be very concerned because he is not taking the AA suggestions for recovery. He is doing it on his own. Over and over, I have seen that does not work.

Trust your instincts. You came here for a reason.

And don't feel bad. I went ahead and married an alcoholic/addict.... I was bound and determined, no one was going to stop me. I truly believed he would "grow out of it," especially once we had children. I was soooooo wrong. It gets harder sweetie. Divorce is hell. My family is completely fragmented now and my children have also been affected by the insanity of addiction. Not anything like the dream I had when I got married.

But here you are, asking questions, I applaud you!! That is something I never would have considered, I only wanted to see what I wanted to see. You may also want to post on the AA message board here, to get perspective from other AA's. I've seen similar posts.... wonderful support there. ((hugs))

-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 17th of February 2011 09:53:47 PM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Loona...I don't think that the recovery message can get better than woman on
woman or man on man and I relate very closely with Glad Lee, her experiences and
how she put them out...why? Because as different as I use to think I was her ex-
periences are exactly my own...not once but several times. I'm a risk taker and a
stubborn "force it to come out my way or else" member of both programs. What
can I add to this thread which can be added to Glad and CG's powerful ESH? Study
up on the disease of alcoholism. It is global, has been around a long long time,
cannot be cured and only arrested by total abstinence. It is progressive...never gets
better only worse. Because it is a compulsion of the mind with an allergy the alcoholic
has lost the choice about drinking. Alcohol and alcoholism run the show when God
and the program of AA are absent. Part of the disease is relapse a return to drinking
not where the alcoholic started but where they left off. The mind, body, spirit and
emotions (the entire alcoholic) must...has to play catchup with the number of drinks
that has been missed...it gets worse, never better. Alcoholism is a fatal disease in
that if it is not arrested by total abstinence often it will result in the loss of life of the
drinker and not only the drinker but those known or unknown within the reach of the
alcoholic. There is no question about how many innocent victims have lost their lives
to another person's drinking. The majority of residents in jail and prisons are there
from drug and alcohol events.  This is not a good disease for those who practice
denial it doesn't have a very wide margin for grace and mercy. When it takes...it will
usually take all before the alcoholic cries uncle and reaches out for help.

This information for me is all hindsight information. I had already been married to
two addicted women with a relationship with another alcoholic woman inbetween who
I might have married had my family not stepped in and refused to accept her into
the fold. I let her go and 6 months later was married to another alcoholic/addict who
I didn't want to be married to.   Alcoholism is a very cunning, powerful and baffling
disease. What helps to trump that is education. I got mine in the face to face
rooms of Al-Anon, College and the included AA.   I would just love to hear that you're
having a successful marriage (with whoever) and would also love to hear that the
alcoholic has lots of sober time, is working the program, has a sponsor and a Power
Greater than his ego and pride and is sponsoring other guys who are being successful
in recovery also. That's a very good picture and still doesn't come with a guarantee.

My helpful early sponsor taught me "Choose the consequence that you want and
then do the right things to get there."    I'm in support with the other guys.

(((((hugs))))) smile

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

neither one of our programs comes with a guarantee , unfortunatley but they do promise to return us to sanity , continue your meetings learn to not enable , speak up as suggested about your fears .it is possible to live a happy life with an alcoholic keep the focus on your needs and regardless of what he does your going to be okay. Even if he stops going to meetings dont you stop taking care of you. I am sorry your parents arent happy about your decission to marry and as already said they are afraid for you and if not informed about alcoholism simply don't understand , this is your life your choices are what matter . Louise

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I think what others have said is very wise.

My own experience is this. I once had a trusted friend who was a longtime pillar of AA. He had more than fifteen years' sobriety when I knew him, and still went to AA meetings several times a week, helped staff the phone lines, did AA outreach in the local hospitals, and other things.

My AH was trying to quit on his own, because he said AA reminded him of his fundamentalist upbringing and he couldn't stand it. And anyway, he said, he was smart enough to read the materials and do it all on his own. He also had a sponsor who left, and he didn't get another sponsor.

So I asked my AA friend if it was possible that my AH could do this on his own. My friend said, "Well -- people spontaneously combust too, apparently. So anything is possible."

From that I gathered that an alcoholic succeeding in quitting on his own does happen, about as often as people spontaneously combust.

As an addendum, my longtime-sober friend stopped going to meetings after another couple of years. Then he relapsed. The last I had heard, he had not climbed back on the wagon. I thought that if anyone I'd ever known would achieve lifelong sobriety it would be him. It gives me a new understanding of exactly how hard longterm sobriety is. Since your fiancé has relapsed once, you've probably got some idea of that too.

Sometimes also I think they stop going to AA in order to relapse. I mean that stopping going is a first sign. Like if you're on a diet, and you guy some ice cream and put it in your freezer. You're not eating it yet. But there's one less step between you and lapsing.

I hope you can get to some meetings, learn more about this disease, and take care of yourself. Hugs to you.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

He is a little different than a person brand new to AA with 1 year. I would say a person brand new to AA that had no sponsor and was skipping meetings that much was probably going to relapse. My guess with him is that he just settled back into routines that worked to keep him sober for those 13 years. The things he is doing with the readings and such are what he knows are his essentials for staying sober. He knows what works for him cuz he did it 13 years. I think the quality of his sobriety might be better if he went to more meetings and was more active in the program. These are all just my opinions as a member of AA. When I don't go to enough meetings and am not active enough in AA, calling my sponsor...I start acting like a dry drunk (irritable, discontent, restless). I don't know what he would say about how he will avoid complacency and relapse again. You can sort of tell when hearing a person speaks if their relapse was bad enough to serve as a new rock bottom.

Of course Alanon would say you really can't control any of this and can't control what he does about his program. I guess the healthiest thing is for you to be prepared to take care of you no matter what happens once you are married.

It sounds like your heart has already made the decision to marry him.

Have a blessed marriage!

Mark

Loonareclipse · Newbie

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful replies. I have two things to add. One, I just re-read my initial post and I don't think I clearly presented that right now, as in the last month, he has been attending at least two meetings per week and has reconnected with a former sponsor, with whom he has been talking on the phone and after meetings. Many of your replies presupposed that he is not currently following AA protocol, but for what it's worth...it looks to me like he is pretty darn serious. Now, there is no way for me to know if this recent dedication is a response to my hesitation. As a few of you suggested, I have been talking openly with him about all of this--ad nauseam it seems, although hopefully still respecting the boundaries of anonymity. He is well aware of my fears and concerns, and very open about his status, plans and goals.

So i guess the question is this...and maybe no one on earth can really answer this for me. Because he did not up until very recently begin working the program in a rigorous way, does that mean he isn't taking recovery seriously? As mentioned above, he had a solid 13 years of sobriety under his belt before this brief slip last year. I can't help but think that things are a little different this time around. Only my fiancé and his higher power know if he hit rock bottom or not, and if it was enough to galvanize his resolve.

I am doing what i can, attending weekly meetings, talking with other alanon members and actively seeking out a sponsor. And believe me, i would LOVE to find someone sooner than later, but can you believe that in the last month of meetings, only one person was willing to temp?! This process ain't easy! My very steadfast belief is that there are no mistakes, every educated decision you make is the best one you ever made. I know how to take care of myself, cover my ass, how to ask for help and i am blessed with the most incredible friends and family (bad dad aside). And yes, I am very aware of the fragility in hitching my wagon to an addict's star. But Mark, you are 100% correct...in my heart I am committed to this person. I met him 10 years ago and I know what kind of man he is, I know that he loves me and I know what he is capable of when he puts his mind to it.

But is the consensus here "don't play with fire"? Any success stories out there of happy marriages with a person in recovery? Is it a losing battle? I am not so naive as to think there will never be another relapse--that's why I go to meetings. I think of it as boot camp. Well, a really lovely version of bootcamp that helps me in a billion ways within and outside of my relationship. But training, nonetheless. I just can't believe that this story has to end in gloom and doom. granted, there is some shaky evidence early in the recovery process but at this very moment I feel cautiously hopeful.

The marriage to me is a piece of paper, walking away from this relationship is not an option at this moment...nor would i want to! My fiance's disease is a gift to BOTH of us. It's a hard teacher, yes, but the darker the shadow, the brighter the light, no?

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

My view is this. When we are involved with an addict, we love them in recovery or not.

It's a whole package deal. Addicts have symptoms other than using. They tend to be self absorbed, selfish, etc. Recovering is a life time goal. They are never cured.

My husband relapsed after brain surgery. It took some time, but I learned to be able to be around him even though he smelled like alcohol, was unbalanced etc. But he got mean so I had to stop living with him.

My point is I feel we have to be able to accept them in whatever condition they are in. The disease gets worse as time goes on. The more they use the worse it is.
I would not have any kids as what if he relapses?

When they stop going to meetings, don't have a sponsor, do not follow any kind of recovery program, that is going into relapse. Relapse is not just when they take that first drink or use another type of drug. It is a process.

Also we learn in Al Anon their disease is none of our business. We don't count their meetings, or watch their progress. It is totally their issue to deal with. We have no control over any of it. When we do watch them, count etc it makes us very sick.

We forget to concentrate on our own lives.

Relapse is part of being an addict. We never know when it will happen. Sadly the disease is progressive, so when they relapse it destroys more of their body.

If I were you, I would read as many of these shares as you can. There is no better place to see what addiction does to families, children, spouses, other loved ones, and what it does to the addict.

We can be the strongest, most intelligent people, but the disease is cunning and so much bigger than we are.

Trust your intuition. I was ignorant to the disease when I married my ex AH. After close to 10 years of Al Anon, I would not marry an addict. A fish and a bird can fall in love but where would they live.

I loved him all my life, but the disease took him away from me anyway.

Glad you are here! love,debilyn

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I understand your wondering. My experience here is that, as the saying goes, "All will be revealed." If he's working the program hard enough, he has a good shot at staying sober. If he's not working at it as hard as he needs to, relapse will come. I think, myself, I would want to wait a little longer and be a little surer as to which it is. Of course there are no guarantees, but I do think the situation sounds a bit ambiguous right now. But with time it will become less ambiguous, one way or the other.

Even if he works his program by the book, of course it's a gamble to marry someone who has a history of alcoholism. Presumably you've thought about this, so you're relatively okay with the gamble. One thing it might help to think about is whether you have a bottom line. By that I mean a point beyond which you wouldn't wait any more. One problem in my marriage is that I hadn't thought about my bottom line. So things kept happening and I would say, "One more thing and I can't take it any more" -- but then the one more thing would happen and I'd say, again, "One more thing and..."

You may never need your bottom line, and I devoutly hope you don't. But I find thinking what the bottom line is helps me get a perspective on the whole thing somehow. Just my 2 cents -- take what works and leave the rest.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"