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Last night AH and I were talking about how I felt about his renewed interest in drinking after 15 years of being sober. As I expressed my position, he grew concerned for me, not for himself and he said he'd get rid of all the alcohol in the house.
Now, here was my response: NO, don't do that for me. I don't want to be responsible for you stopping drinking. That's not the answer. I went on to say that I want him to stop for him, but he kept going on and on about how it relaxes him and how he likes to reward himself on the weekend with a few beers or drinks after a long work week, etc. Whatever, was my basic response. Yet, I still held my ground and told him that he can go ahead and get rid of the alcohol but what's that going to prove or accomplish? He can still go out with clients and drink if he wants, he can walk to the corner gas station and buy a beer and have it drunk by the time he walks home. No, I told him: don't do it for me. I told him I was going to start counseling and going to Al Anon so that I can learn to live happily and peacefully with his new found 'habit' and so I can learn to set up healthy boundaries. We had to end our conversation after that because our son was coming home from tennis but it was somewhat productive. At least he knows how I feel and he was concerned about my mental health in all of this. We just have to set some ground rules and boundaries and see how things progress from there. Wish me luck!
Just my opinion, but I think you actually showed a lot of healthy thinking in your reaction. Of course you hope he will work a program and go into recovery and stay sober (and maybe clarifying that to him would help). But you're totally right (as I understand it) in saying that he can't do it just because you're "too weak" to hold up under his drinking. Or some other reason having to do with your inability to cope with it. He has to do it because it's making his life a mess (which does include the fact that it causes pain to everyone around him). It's a subtle but important distinction. If he feels he wants to pour out all the alcohol, that's a nice first step. But there are 10,000 other steps to take, and he shouldn't feel (as my AH used to) that pouring out the alcohol was some magic fixer and then he could relax because he wouldn't be tempted. Or pour out the alcohol to "prove" to you that now he's recovered. (I know that one too.) You're right, he could drink anywhere else. Only longterm sobriety will convince us that they have longterm sobriety. There are no magic shortcuts.
As always, concentrating on our own program is the best way to help ourselves. Hugs to you.
-- Edited by Mattie on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 10:55:20 AM
Thanks Mattie. I guess I felt that I should have been more firm and that I should have set boundaries already, but truly I don't know what they will be yet. I did tell him that if his performance from Saturday gets repeated or if I come home to find him wasted again, that I will take our son to a hotel or some place else for the evening. I told him that I will not assist his hang over or clean up after him. He understood and repeatedly told me that Saturday was a stupid mistake and that he does not ever want it to happen again. We also discussed how our son picked up on dad's behavior and I expressed my concern and he said it's all he thought about on Sunday. I didn't rub it in and tell him how ridiculous he was, or how sad the whole scene was, etc. He said it himself and agreed he was a fool. I told him that I was fearful of Saturday's incident repeating itself and that's when I told him I'd leave if I witness it again. Mostly to protect our son from the erratic and strange behaviors. He agreed it was concerning and we left it at that. No promise from him to quit in the future and I'm glad because I don't want him to make empty promises. Again, I'm really trying hard to let HIM make decisions for himself not to just please me or appease me for the time being. How's that going to help us in the future?
One thing my AH was always trying to do was to put me in the position of being his overseer. He'd say, "Okay, it's fine now, but just don't let me get so I do it again, okay?" Or "Any time you think I've been drinking, you just remind me and I'll stop." (Of course when it came down to it, he didn't stop no matter what.) But this used to disturb me a lot -- I felt like, "If you want to be sober, you take care of it! I can't do it!" I just had the feeling he was really angling to make me take the fall when he drank again -- "Well, why did you let me do it then?" And I sure didn't want to be his mother or his boss.
So anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it sounds as if you're refusing to be in a similar situation -- you're staying on your side of the fence and taking care of you -- which is the only realistic thing. Hugs.
I don't think you said anything stupid. Sounds like you used some tools you learned already from here and alanon and it was positive. You are right that only he can decide if he needs to stop. If he got to the point of saying he will throw out the liquor, that suggests maybe he does agree he has a problem.
If he wants info about alcoholism he could always try the AA board here at MIP...Prior to tossing out all the liquor, maybe some self-evaluation and reaching out would help him. You could suggest it, but again, no control over what he does after that.
They have to make the decision to stop drinking. He was playing you. looking for your reaction. It wouldnt have mattered what you said.
The action of clearing out all the alcohol from the home. What does that prove.? They are always playing games with themselves.
Our part is to not have a part in it. Whatever you decide might have been a better response. And walk away. Because he managed to engage you in a conversation about his drinking. Which is so BORING. You could be doing better things.
Remember, boundaries are for you, you cannot manipulate the alcoholic into sobriety. Action is better than a lot of talking. Set ground rules only if you plan to carry them out. For an alcoholic a ground rule is meant to be broken.
We must understand that Alanon is for YOU, not the alcoholic. We must make sure that were not trying to control the situation. It wont work. From my experience alcoholics have their own path to journey, I have found that ground rules and ultimatums do not work. It just makes the battle grow bigger.
Keep attending Alanon. Is your counselor an addiction counselor?
Bettina, I made an appointment with an addictions specialist. Actually, I have to admit that I was the one who brought up the drinking issue and I was the one who expressed the fact that I have a problem with alcohol. You see, my dad was an alcoholic and mostly emotionally unavailable throughout my childhood and when he did decide to engage with me when I was in college he verbally abused me and cursed my existence. Anyway, a lot of my problems with alcohol stem from my dad and childhood, not just my AH. Actually, when I look back on the 18 years that I've known AH I have to say that he's only been visibly drunk a handful of times(most of those when we were young and just out of college). He had one scary incident the year after we graduated and he decided that drinking wasn't a great idea(at the time). So, he quit for a bit and because I was supportive and we were newly engaged, I quit drinking too. I was actually feeling like I was falling into my own patterns of alcohol abuse.
Then, AH got a job with Miller Brewing Co. I didn't think it was a good idea since he had decided to quit drinking but the pay was good and it was a way out of the dead end job he had at the time. Anyway, it was a 1 year contract position promoting new brands. He had to be in bars regularly, visit restaurants and mystery shop them, etc and I have to admit that we had a great year that year. He never had any incidents and was professional about his job and never got drunk. He would drink the beers Miller asked him to sell, and many times I'd accompany him and we had a great time. Then we got involved with some Christian friends and joined their church and their church was extremely anti-drinking. So, I developed a HUGE anti drinking mentality and started even judging Christians who drank and couldn't believe that they would drink. I guess I didn't think that there was such a thing as healthy drinking, I just thought it was all evil. We got married that year and we just chose to not have alcohol in our home. So, here we are almost 16 years later and I'm again fighting the alcohol battle. Wondering if AH is going to turn into his drunk parents and wondering if I'm going to turn out like my mom(an adulterer who cheated on my dad because she felt he was putting his nightly drinking before the family). I know for a fact that I basically live in fear, contrived fears that I have made up that quite frankly may never come to fruition and by giving it up to my HP, I am hoping and praying that I can find some peace in how I see alcohol and how I view others who drink, including my spouse, my dad, my mother, etc.
My exAH would say that kind of thing - usually, he'd say it in a contrite way when he thought I was very angry about some drunken shenanigan, and thought I was going to leave. He'd say that he was going to cut down and that I should remind him if I saw him drinking too much. He'd say that sometimes he just needed to be reminded.
Of course, it was all just words. There were no actions that ever backed up the words. He wasn't sorry about the drinking, he was just very very sorry that I was mad. By telling me that my anger was justified and that I had his permission to let him know when I thought he was drinking too much, he was trying to control ME - he was pacifying me, and giving me the validation that I wanted from him that his alcohol use was a problem.
At the end of the day, that situation didn't work out for me. Oh yes, I made sure to mention (and mention, and mention, and mention) when I felt his drinking was out of control - always prefaced with a "you know, it's really none of my business BUT YOU TOLD ME TO SAY SOMETHING IF ... " kind of statement. "Reminding" just didn't work ... he didn't want to be "reminded" (or, more appropriately, nagged under the guise of "reminding"). Although he did go to one AA meeting, he went because he thought I'd be less mad at him. Ultimately, he didn't get a recovery program because he wasn't ready. Trying to do things for my mental health or for my well being was not enough.
In the program, I have learned to stop putting stock in words. Words are nice - they pacify me and they tell me what I want to hear. But I stay sick when I hear the words and believe them over and over, expecting different results each time. Although I believe that the alcoholics in my life have been very sincere when they've said they were going to stop drinking, etc., sincerity isn't enough. It's not personal when they can't follow through with the words.
Point is, now I just hang back and watch the actions instead. For me, that's the only way I can stay sane.
