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Post Info TOPIC: a question about amends


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a question about amends


Hello, I was married for 11 years to an abusive volitile addict. A few years ago, I divorced him. During the relationship he sexually assaulted me on more than one occasion. He currently works for a prominant treatment facility as an addictions counselor. 

Though I am within my rights to prosecute him for what he has done, I simply want him to follow his 12 steps and make ammends. I am really only looking for an ammends letter.

How do I keep him accountable for what he has done? Is there some way to find out the name of his sponsor and let him know what he is doing? He continues to speak of me in degrading ways. I have distanced myself and put my husband in charge of communicating with him, but he says nasty things through the kids and to my current husband. What can we do?

My ex continues to minimize what he did to me. He continues to be abusive to my children and I feel angry that he is working for a company espousing the 12 steps while he himself is not living them.

I feel like I should let him job know. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?


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Arinna599


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Hi Arinna, It looks like you have been affected by alcohol/addiction. In al-anon, we work the 12 steps to recover from the effects of the insanity that comes along with living in it.

We work the steps for ourselves. We don't work them for anyone else. (I can tell you what I did, which is what we do in al-anon, share our experience, strength and hope.)

After our divorce, I knew there were amends to be made to my ex-husband, but I didn't rush to do it, I had moved to another state. A couple years later, we all got together to welcome our adult daughter back from her first deployment, and the opportunity presented itself.. out of the blue, my Higher power just presented me with the opportunity... and I took it. I apologized for some things that had happened during our marriage, and I told him that I no longer hold him responsible for the breakdown of our marriage, that I can see now that I played an equal part in my own suffering, and I'm sorry for making (him) believe it was all his fault.

It has been my experience, there is something magical about making amends. He started crying and then he, in turn, apologized for... many things. It was just another sacred moment in the program for me. Our relationship has been very amicable ever since.

From where I sit, it appears that you want revenge. I don't KNOW this to be true, only you know your true motive. If he has committed crimes against you and your children, I don't understand why you've waited with pursuing legal action, and why an amends letter will satisfy you now.... ?

I thought about revenge a lot!!!!!!! It had become an obsession for awhile. Then one day, my sponsor told me it wasn't my responsibility to "right" anything, it was God's. God would "right it" in God's good timing, I didn't need to fear that anymore. I let it go.

I hope you look into al-anon recovery for yourself. It has been the best thing I've ever done... and my children are benefitting too, I am a much better mother.

Take what you like, leave the rest. (((hugs)))



-- Edited by glad lee on Monday 14th of February 2011 07:17:24 PM

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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.



~*Service Worker*~

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Oh boy, I've been there. Putting my happiness on hold while I wait for the A to finally come to his senses.

I learned in Al-Anon that I have choices.

1. I can choose to remain unhappy and resentful waiting for someone else to change. Knowing that some people never change that could possibly mean that I could potentially be unhappy for the rest of my life.

2. I can choose to accept that I cannot force others to change to my own code of living and instead move forward with my life and be happy. Let what happened in the past go instead of allowing it to rule over me and dictate whether or not I get to enjoy my life.

I had a realization once that every moment I'd spend obsessing about the A and how he wronged me was a moment I was robbing from my life. Instead of thinking about him, I could have been doing any number of things to improve my quality of life - exercising, going to the beach, enjoying a fun movie or book, connecting with friends, playing a game, being creative, getting a massage or facial... etc. etc.

My exAH was a complete jerk while functioning in his disease. He was verbally abusive, a compulsive liar and tore down everyone around him to make himself feel better. Would I like a genuine amends from him one day? Yeah... it might be nice, but in all honesty, I don't really think it's ever going to happen. Knowing him and how his disease progresses, I'm pretty sure he's eventually some day going to be telling the people in his life that I was the one who did all the things he did. A's live in a bizarre fantasy land where I honestly think they really can't figure out where one thing starts and another ends. Fact is, I cannot control that. I cannot control how the A's mind processes. I cannot control what comes out of his mouth. I cannot control his opinion of me. I cannot control a dang thing about him. Why? Because I'm not him.

The only person I have control over in this life is myself. And even then, I've found there's some aspects of me that I have a difficult time controlling and they're coming right from me. I have a lot of knee-jerk reactions to things that are deeply ingrained and only time and being consciously present will start to slow those reactions.

Forcing an amends out of someone will never lead to my feeling satisfied. I know this because I'll spoil that amends by thinking to myself "Jeez, I had to MAKE this person do that. I just wanted them to do it out of their own will." I learned that it's not me wanting them to do something... it's me wanting them to WANT to do something.

My only advice I will offer is to get to some face-to-face Al-Anon meetings. There are people there who understand and have been through the same things. Most important, there are tools there that can lead to serenity if you choose to use them.

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~*Service Worker*~

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you may never get your amends and talking to his sponsor or job wont make it happen anytime soon ,  focus on making amends to yourself for allowing this behavior to happen to you .  revenge always backfires .. the best form of revenge is to get well and recover from the affects of someon elses addiction and treat yourself to a better life . the best way iknow how to do that is to attend Al-Anon meetings for yourself and become who you were meant to be .
so that you will never allow anyone to treat yu that way again . Louise


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I came- I came to-I came to be



~*Service Worker*~

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Dear Arinna  Welcome

You have received some powerful responses .  You do deserve to be heard and to have he pain that you experienced lifted.  I urge you to find al anon face to face  meetings in your community  Living with this diseases infects everyone!!!

PLease join us also at our on line meetings here and in the chat room 

It is urgent for you to break the isolation, share , work the steps yourself  focus on yourself and find new tools to recover from this painful past

Please keep coming back


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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


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What about the fact that this person is an addictions counselor, operating like an exemplar of the 12 steps to hundreds of people while still behaving in an abusive manner? Doesn't he have to be accountable? The law is not the answer. Plenty of guilty people go free and besides that will effect my kids really badly! We're talking about rape here and I feel a moral obligation to let people know what he is capable of since he is in a position of power over people.

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Arinna599


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I have Nothing to make amends to him for. He held me hostage, under duress for years. I was mentally unstable and he took advantage of a you g, weak lost girl in a creepy predatory way. Rape and coercion didn't really afford me enough agency to DO anything to him. 

-- Edited by canadianguy on Saturday 19th of February 2011 01:07:01 AM

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Arinna599


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Aloha Arianna...The membership here has gone thru our own experiences in ways
lots of people outside of the program of Al-Anon and the 12 steps would ever come
to.  For us the program has worked.  As Glad mentioned the ammends process is
something "we" work first and foremost for ourselves because it is us who want to
heal from what we have done to ourselves.

We do understand and it has been mentioned here what wanting to punish is like
and what on going sick resentments are about.  For me resentments killed my
spirit which resulted in a life without any hope of happiness and freedom from
fear and pain.

We do understand your story and know that you have all the choices in the world.
If you want him punished you need to seek out the best way of doing that for you.
If you want to see him dragged before the world court, including his employers and
his clients and any or everyone else and to have all these and more take up your
complaint before you can heal then what is the best way of doing that for you? 

You were deeply hurt and abused.  I understand abuse.  I was a physically abusive
husband, brother, male.  I hurt a lot of people; including women physically some of
whom I have not apologize to ...and... I've made my amends inspite of some lost
apologies.  I no longer physically abuse anyone...not even those who I might have
reason to defend against.  I never knew a "right" way of getting back at others or
of forcing my selfish will upon others.

I am sorry that you were hurt and harmed.  I know it was painful including that
there was nothing that was said or could be said that made him think more of
you and your safety, comfort and worth. I apologize that he did these things to
you and support your need to make it right.

(((((hugs))))) smile



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This discourse has not really made me interested in coming to al-anon. Most of what you have said has not been helpful at all, save to show me why alanon is not for me. Thanks for the input. My prejudice is confirmed.

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Arinna599


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Dear Arinna, You're not the first one to diss the message. I walked away from al-anon too, only to return 20 years later.

I held a firm belief there was nothing to change in myself, the problem was all HIM. I didn't want to hear that I had to change. I held onto that belief for 20 years and finally came crawling back.... there was no where else to turn, I was physically, emotionally and spiritually bankrupt.

THis is a spiritual program. We try not to act on our will anymore, but the will of a Higher Power. We recognize that our will led us to this place of despair, and we're now WILLING to practice something different. We recognize that we are powerless to change anyone but ourselves. You are powerless to CHANGE his heart, sweetie. Your head is telling you that he is walking away unscathed, enjoying his effing life and it's not fair. It's not true. If he is still that person, he is suffering, trust this. The most powerful thing you can do, is pray for him. Sounds crazy. I took this suggestion, started out praying, "god, I really don't want to do this, please help me to want to do this." When I did pray for him, things changed. It was just another miracle I've experienced.

You have the option to destroy his reputation in an effort to get him to apologize, but will it truly bring you what you want? What is it that you REALLY WANT?

Isn't it peace?

We encourage you to feel what you're feeling... feel your anger, I would be angry too. YOur anger is normal, get it out here. I am glad you came here to try to release it, work to be finished with it, that is the value of this fellowship, to bring your feelings here, so that we don't ACT on our anger. That's where we can actually hurt ourselves. We have something of a slogan here, ANGER is one letter away from DANGER.

Something you can do, is have a boundary with him regarding your children, if you believe they are being subjected to abuse, do something about that. I hope you keep coming back to un-hook yourself from the power you have given him. You are still hooked . Al-anon will help you find serenity, I hope you keep coming back.



Meditation from Melody Beattie:

"Today, I will be as angry as I need to be, with a goal of finishing my business with others. Once I have released my hurt and anger, I will strive for healthy forgiveness - forgiveness with boundaries. I understand that boundaries, coupled with forgiveness and compassion, will move me forward."






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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.



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Hello, I'm Arinna's husband (I think I might be logged on as her.)

What my wife needs in order to heal is to be listened to and taken seriously. We are practicing Christians and want peace. However, she was shunned by her church when she left her abusive husband. When her husband remarried her former best friend (who was a member of their church), no one even mentioned the rape to the former best friend, not even the minister who married them and knew about it because both she and her ex told him. Basically everyone in the church acted like her ex-husband was a decent guy. He is a respected member of his church and his community as he was for most of the 11 years that he raped and abused her. My wife wants to be heard and acknowledged. Particularly hurtful is the way that she has been judged and condemned by the Christian community. This has made it difficult for her to heal and the problem is ongoing to some extent.

There is another issue here that has not received much attention. We have to co-parent with this guy an he continues to be emotionally and verbally abusive to her children. This is hard for the children and for her (and me too I suppose). It seems to us that in a Christian context we could all agree that a rapist who is an ongoing abuser shouldn't have parental rights. His access to the children should depend on their needs, not his. This is not the case right now. Similarly, such a person should not have a position of authority in a top tier addictions center. Right? Even if my wife heals completely, the system that allows him to function has been left untouched. It seems to me that the problem is both spiritual and political. It is fine to focus on oneself, but the power structures that allow an abusive (bipolar) person to remain in authority both personally and professionally need to be scrutinized.

One does not heal in a vacuum. Is it the case that in AA one is primarily accountable to God, but not to each other? In the Church of Christ, where my wife was a member, we are our brother's keepers. This was my wife's paradigm for moral responsibility. We are now confused and disoriented and don't know what to think about the role of the church. Is morality to be a private matter? What of Christian community? Isn't part of its purpose to offer correction and hold people accountable?

Thank you for reading this and for considering my wife's situation.

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Arinna599


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Not sure what you are both looking for here.

We practice the 12 steps of AA to recover from the effects of alcoholism, we have all suffered as you have. We don't give advice to each other, however sometimes we're asked to give suggestions, you can take it, or leave it.

My personal suggestion to you is to take legal action, especially to protect the children, but it sounds like she is unwilling to do that.... it appears she somehow wants to FORCE him to apologize... however it seems she also wants to publicly tar and feather him, as well.... ? I understand that. I just don't see it as a solution. Try as I might, I could never get ANYONE in my life to do as I wanted them to do.... outside of legal support.... I just dont' have that kind of power.

I identify with the frustration that it appears as though he's moving along in life unscathed by his criminal past.... however, we are not God, can we know this as absolute truth?? And when I believe someone needs to be punished, am I not playing God? I had to switch my focus onto myself... because what I focus on gets bigger and bigger. And it seems to me, she is completely focused on him....he still has a great deal of power over her.... and that needs healing. I sooo wish she would try our program. However, if al-anon is not right for her, maybe counseling is.  Brightest blessings.  Namaste

-- Edited by glad lee on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 12:25:55 PM

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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.



~*Service Worker*~

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I'm sorry you both are going through this.  Let me see if I can formulate an answer that says what I want to say clearly.

Abuse is horrible, absolutely horrible.  I don't think any sane person could dispute that. Part of the aftereffects of abuse can be the feeling of not being listened to and not having the abuse acknowledged.  An online forum isn't the perfect place for that kind of acknowledgement, because we're all writing quickly and in public.  But I do believe that some kind of deeper acknowledgement in the right setting might help with the healing, and I hope that is available.  Meanwhile, let me just say that I'm so deeply sorry that this happened.

I also know that craving for someone to acknowledge what the wrongs they have committed. Sadly, we have no control over that. There just isn't a way to force someone to do it.

If this person is in a position of power, particularly if he hasn't undergone a huge course of therapy, recovery, and personal overhaul himself, that's alarming and potentially dangerous for others.  I can clearly see the reason for concern. I suspect the best way to call his reliability into question is to get the law involved, which you've said you don't want to do. Getting the law involved -- or even just informing his employers about his past, assuming they would listen, which I'm afraid I have some doubte about -- would be a different issue than asking him to make amends, and would probably make it even less likely that he would ever make amends.

The reason people are suggesting that you make your own amends is that that is what we do when situations are not dangerous or the like -- it sounds as if people didn't fully understand your situation.  But let me explain the thinking behind looking at ourselves.  If we want a situation to change, the only person we have any control over is ourselves.  That's unfair, but that's the way it is.  So the only person we can change is us. So in every relationship, it can be useful, when one is ready, to ask "What was my part in it?"  Not "How am I to blame?" because blame is not in the equation.  For instance, in my relationship with my alcoholic ex-husband, I am not to blame for his drinking, for his lying, for his compulsive spending, for his bankruptcy, for his manipulation, for any of those things he did.  But when I think of my part in it, I can remember that he did give clues that he was like this at the beginning, but I overlooked them. I was young and thrilled to be with such an apparently great guy, and I was naive, and when he told me things I wondered a bit but I swallowed them ... and it was years later before my eyes were fully opened.  But I do remember that I often had a niggling feeling that something was wrong, and I didn't walk away when he did this weird thing and then that manipulative thing...  It wasn't my fault that he did them, but I showed up to play my part.  This is good to realize -- because it means that if I should be in a situation like that ever again, I have power.  I have the power to play my part differently -- to walk away when the manipulation shows up -- to go more slowly until I know the person really well -- and other ways to protect myself. 

It may be too soon to think about those things.  But reclaiming one's power is a wonderful thing. It means that no one has the power to take away our serenity, ever again.  That's why we would suggest that you look at your own part in things, not because you are to blame for any abuse, heaven forbid, in case it seemed that way.

It also sounds as if protecting yourself means keeping well away from this man. I hope you will find a way forward that will help heal and protect you.  Al-Anon has much to offer, but you may need even more support than that right now.  However, there are many people with stories like yours in Al-Anon, who have gained the tools to regain their serenity.

Blessings to you, and take care of yourself.

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~*Service Worker*~

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It sounds to me like a question of principles above personalities.

The principle of the matter is the children should certainly be protected if you suspect abuse. But there's the high road or the low road to ensuring that protection. You and your wife get to decide that for yourselves.

-- Edited by Aloha on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 01:43:11 PM

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(This is from the husband) Thanks for your comments everyone. I particularly found Mattie's comments helpful. I think my wife did too.

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Arinna599


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Aloha Arianna's husband...Gotcha on wanting peace and things that happen in
churches and religions and stuff like that.  Being a practicing Christian doesn't
come with a guarantee for peace.  For me that is a one on one agreement and
working relationship with my Higher Power...God as I understand God.  God
wants me to have peace also and wants me to do those things necessary to
arrive at peace of mind, emotions, spirit and body.  To get that I've got to
practice the principles of the program in all of my affairs and also remember
lots of philosophy and experiences many of which come from the Bible one
being ..."Love thine enemy."  There are a zillion of them to help guide me
to doing the right thing and arriving at peace and still if I am not willing by
some superior judgement, to do it and choose to do the opposite I get to
earn and carry the consequences.   There is a statement made at the end
of each and every Al-Anon meeting that says..."If you keep and open mind,
you will find help."   That was the first promise and miracle that ever came
my way and my part was to keep an open mind and to let go of each and
every justification to being the martyr and victim in life.  When my complaint
and anxiety was the most important part of my life it even came before God.

We all have choices and for me I can continue to do the same thing over and
over again expecting life to get better for me or learn something that someone
else is doing that works for them and have it work for me also. 

I would suggest that you might attend some open Al-Anon meetings in your area
and see how they might work for you.  You just have to be also affected by what
has happened in the past with Arianna.  

Keep sticking around and listening and participating in the posts.   ((((hugs)))) smile

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Senior Member

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Welcome Arinna,

A couple of years ago I could have written much of your post myself.   I certainly understand the anger, resentment and revenge I hear in your post.  My ex was a coke addict and alcoholic that was a terrible father, refused to sign for our son to get treatment for the emotional abuse.  The courts were useless in aiding me in fighting against all of the crap and to keep our son away from his abusive father.  I couldn't find a judge that didn't put my ex's "rights" above the well being of our son.

I had spent years doing self help and really knew who I was.  The only problem I had, was the jerk that I cringed at calling my son's father.   I went to a divorce program where they told me I had to overcome my anger with his father.  How was I supposed to do that as long as my ex was being a selfish jerk.  They said it was up to me regardless of how my ex acted.  I was really upset at that point.

I did get my ex fired from his job via email to his boss.  They thought he was crazy and knew I was too.  They still couldn't allow him to do what he was doing at his work.  It didn't make a lick of difference to me though in the end.  He was still doing the same things, just with other people.  He was really good at providing the illusion of recovery and coached others all the while was not living what he preached at all.  It just continued with other people when I got rid of one set of them.  There were many people out there more than willing to cosign his crap, and he was a master manipulator.

I started going to Al-anon and was disgusted with the passive, doormats I saw there. I knew it wasn't for me the moment I stepped through the door.  Looking back I continued to go because I really could identify with many of the things I heard and nothing else worked.

As I continued to go, I listened and learned.  People were patient with my pompous attitude and ego.  They listened, didn't advise and allowed me to learn that I can't control another, and the time I was wasting obsessing about all he was "getting away with" wasn't my worry.  I had a choice.  I could give over all of my emotions and power over to him, or I could worry about myself and my child.  For the last two years I have been able to concentrate on myself, my life and my child.  I now have the tools to aid my child in a way that I never had.  I don't have to care if others are cosigning his crap, if others in life are being hurt by him.  I can't save the world and each person has a duty to themselves.  I used to think that since those people don't know what he is like they are being taken advantage of just as I was.  Truth of the matter is, they were sick like he and I, so they were sucked in by his crap.

I love my life now and I don't live with hatred, resentment and the need to control others.  I have a hard enough time controlling myself at times.

I am hopeful things go better for you as I remember being in your shoes, and they aren't great to be in.

Blessings



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