Oops he did it again - Al-Anon Family Group

floridawife · Member

Oops he did it again

Rose · Veteran Member

oh the promises, I have heard those so many times.
I too have not gone to any f2f meetings and have been dealing with an AH for a very long time. I do go to counseling though and plan to start f2f meetings soon. First it was the excuses, then do I really need to go, to I HAVE to go.

My AH is not stopping......I did not cause it, I cannot control it, I cannot cure it...its all up to him.
I need to live for me and my son who will be 8 yrs old. I have to stop asking if he is still drinking, which I know he is, so why bother to ask.

There is a free offer for "Getting Them Sober" by Canadian Guy at the top of the posts for those that cannot afford to buy the book. Its a wonderful book and I highly recommend it!

Keep coming back as I do when I need to vent and feel that I am not alone in this world.

floridawife · Member

Thanks Rose, I actually just sent Canadianguy a PM asking for a copy. He is too kind to send those books out to those of us that can't afford it. He has some majorly good karma coming his way.

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

In my experience, there is no point in asking questions or engaging in discussion with an intoxicated person. They are not able to be rational. And the answer to the question "why" will always be an excuse, until the A takes responsibility and decides to get sober. Why do they drink? They drink because they had a bad day, because they had a good day, because the sky is blue, because it's raining. The truth is, they drink because they are alcoholics, and that is what alcoholics do. Asking "why" is only setting yourself up to be lied to.

Promises/attempts to stop are part and parcel of alcoholism.

The best thing to do is to put the focus on yourself and your own recovery, and leave the A's issues with the A. It is good you are going to your first f2f meeting! I have found so much peace in the rooms of Alanon. I hope that you will as well. Looking forward to hearing how it goes!

Summer

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I've had that same problem -- it seems as if ignoring it is as much as saying, "I'm fine with this," which is far from the truth. Yet yelling, pleading, questioning, none of that does any good as far as making him change. At the same time, I grew up in a family where we had to pretend nothing was ever wrong '-- "Everything's fine! Fine!" -- said through gritted teeth. So I have an allergy toward pretending things are fine when I am not happy about what's going on.

What I finally did was say to my AH, "You know how I feel about your drinking. I think it's driving us apart and it's going to bring down our marriage. And I know you think I'm exaggerating and it's fine. I think your views are distorted and you can't see what's happening. That's a symptom of alcoholism right there. I want you to know that I'm really angry that you've brought this into our marriage, and unless you get into recovery eventually we're going to break up because of it." Of course that didn't do a darn bit of good. Except that it made me feel like I'd at least had my say, and I would never think, "I wonder, if I had told him how I feel, would it have made a difference?"

Eventually we did break up, because the drinking got worse and worse -- I won't go into all the crazy details, you can imagine -- and when I realized he really and truly wasn't going to stop, or not on my timeline anyway (despite dozens of promised, rehab, relapse, denial, etc. etc.) -- I asked him to leave.

So the other thing to think about is: Do you have a bottom line? Because if not, then there really isn't anything to say other than "I don't like this."

Sorry I don't have any better insights. It's really hard.

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

Floridawife,

Been there and have been thru all of it. 26 years of it. I agree wtih Mattie and Summer.

Its all up to us and how much we will take. There is no handbook on that.

They already know we dont like it. The more I didnt like it , the more he drank. We are the provoker's dont you know. It turned out that I became the enemy and the resented one. I didnt like the role. Who wants to be angry most of the time. We have to leave them alone but still create boundaries for ourself. Its not a fun way to live.

Not till I asked him to leave and he got his own apartment and still continued to drink and be near death at least 3 times for 2 1/2 more years . He finally is living in a sober living home and has to be sober, or you get kicked out. He has been sober 3 weeks for the first time in his 57 years of living. This is a long process, it doesnt happen overnite.

For me , we have a friendship relationship, after all we were married for a long time, but he has to be sober to engage with me. I wish him the best, but Im much happier living alone and I never regret the decision to part and I will live alone forever. Your outcome might be different. I do know the best way is to develop and learn the art of detachment and Alanon is for teaching that, if your willing to learn. Willingness, thats the key.

The hardest part is the letting go, keep coming back till it becomes a part of you.

Luv, Bettina

floridawife · Member

Mattie, Thank you so much, your post was very helpfull. I honestly didn't want to say the wrong thing and make matters worse so I kept it short by just asking if he had been drinking (atleast he didn't lie to me and tell me he hadn't), but once it was out there I wasn't sure what to say or if I should say anything at all, so I kept my mouth shut.

I don't know if I have a bottom line (is that bad??). I do know that I am fed up with the way things are currently and that I don't want to continue with our current situation. I don't want to kick him out, I can't make it (financially) on my own; so in essence I feel trapped the way we are now. I know if I kick him out legally he would eventually have to pay child support and maybe even alimony, but really how reliable is he going to be? Who is to say he isn't going to get a DUI or lose his license (right now he still has a hardship license) again, which means he might lose his job again. I know it is alot of "what ifs" but it still a major concern for me. He has also said that without me and the kids he would have no reason to fight to get better. Now that is a great guilt trip!! So if I leave him who knows what will happen. Maybe it would be his rock bottom or maybe it would esculate and get worse. I know I have to help myself but I have 2 boys to take care of and I worry for them as much as me, I have to be able to provide for them. I am going to see about finding new employment so I would be better (financially) on my own if it ever comes to that, but with the economy the way it is right now it will be hard to find a better job within my area of expertise. (which really sucks-I like my job and have been here for 8years, I make desent $ but by the time taxes and insurance is deducted-it's just not enough). I guess I do have a bottom line, but I'm not sure when my bottom line would come into effect. Does that even make sense??

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

By not reacting am I telling him its ok ? no but you are saving yourself one big headache and probably an argument , asking if they have been drinking is also a waste of time especially if you expect an honest answer ever time , did he drive drunk ? probably if his car was home the answer would be yes he did .. Please find meetings for yourself you need support . the book I would suggest is our first daily reader ODAT = one day at a time , its perfect for newcommers helps to change attitudes ( ours ) and Al-Anon how it works is awsome .. also pick up a few detachment pamphlets they literally changed my life , gave me something to work on what to do in any given situation my part is made perfectly clear .
=

floridawife · Member

Thanks abbyal, I have thought about getting ODAT, right now with money being so tight I am going to get a couple of books. Canadianguy is so generously going to send me the "Getting them Sober" book. I am going to go online and see if I can find a used (cheap) copy of either "Courage to Change" or "One day at a Time". I am going to my 1st f2f meeting this Saturday, so hopefully that will help. I'm kind of nervous so wish me luck.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I had that almost unstoppable urge to say "Have you been drinking?" all the time. I guess it was the voice of the continual anxiety in my head. The thing is that alcoholism and lying go hand in hand. So if he says "No," you know you can't trust it. My ex always said "No," so I really knew I couldn't trust it. I could catch him with an open can of beer in his hand and he'd have some crazy excuse about how he just found it sitting there and picked it up to see what was in it... Completely bonkers. They're lying to themselves, thinking their excuses might fool us. Even so, it's so hard not to ask.

My mind was a lot more at peace when I knew I could support myself. It's a challenge being a single mother, but it's easier than having one extra kid to look after (the AH). They're like the toddlers from heck. One thing to consider is that in a lot of states, if the court orders child support (which they usually do), it can be taken straight out of his wages, before he ever sees it. I know some people who get support from exes they'd never get a penny from otherwise. My thought is just that when we know we can handle things without the alcoholic, that's when we're in the best place to make real choices. So if we stay with them, we do it because we're living life with serenity, not because we're desperate but stuck.

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

I didn't know much on the day I realized my husband was an alcoholic. He was atypical. And episodic, to start with. All I had was having read Eric Berne's Games People Play. And he said that alcoholism was a three-handed game with alcoholic, spouse and bartender and that it could not be won.
So I waited until he came to and sobered up and the next day I told him calmly and quietly that I needed to know if he planned to continue to drink, because I needed to plan my life.
I had no idea how, and we had an almost 13 year old daughter and I didn't have the skills to support her and me. (My husband had a well-paying career.) And there was no doubt in my mind that I had to leave if he continued.
That is all I ever said. And he stopped cold turkey.
We had issues along later. We've had dry drunks. I swear the man could distill his own alcohol if he drank a lot of fruit juice. We got that cleared up. And there was a time that he was using a lot of Listerine. And at that point he was in denial that he was an alcoholic and my therapist and I pretty much forced him into AA. It wasn't a good fit, and he didn't attend for long. However, he's never denied it since. And he's never tried to fool anyone--mainly himself--that he could use 90 proof mouthwash. (One doesn't have to ingest it--it absorbs through the tissues in the mouth.)
We are probably not typical. It might have been better for me if I had left then. Or if I had ever been able to stick with an AlAnon face to face meeting.
But I have never lived with a drinking alcoholic from that day. And it's been many decades. He has long since lost the desire to drink.
Some times I kid him that he'd have been a worse alcoholic if I had been a better codependent. He thanks me for having saved his life. He and his HP saved his life. And I certainly got his attention. He could sense my absolute clarity and resolution. And it was his choice.
I don't know if any of this is useful. This is how it played out for us and I am grateful.
All Best,
Temple

VickieB · Member

I'm convinced that "Getting them Sober" is the best bookI have ever read. Some one here a long time ago mentioned it and I oredered one, now I have her whole library of books, and I can't begin to tell you how they have helped me. I was so down and desperate last year that I wasn't sure I could go on... or would go on. I even called and had a telephone consultation with the author because I was so desperate. I think these books can help everyone even if the spouse doesn't admit a drinking problem. One of the books is Getting Your Children sober which I sure didn't think applied to me, but I have a friend that I thought could benefit...so I started reading it and gained more then I thought. My HP knew I needed to understand the disease better and I need strength in detachment, I found so much help in this book alone. I'm not responding now when he pours constantly from the bottle...I pretend I don't see it. This isn't easy for me...I want to scream and yell. But for the moment I am strong. There isn't one thing I can do... I've done it all over 30 plus years and nothing has changed.

xeno59 · ~*Service Worker*~

(( florida ))

My heart goes out to you. My son is an A admitted it out loud all the time but never did a dang thing to help himself.
And then when he would promise to do better i had hope, the hope quickly turned into an expectaion and the minute my hope turned into an expectaion for him i was knocked down once again,
So I had to have only one expectaion from my son....as he is as addict I cannot expect him to act as anything but an addict... no rational thought process, all the lies, all the promises etc...I learned that everything weather he was sober or high that came out of his mouth was a lie. A lie intened to protect his disease and get me off his back.
A lot of relief was felt for me when i just accepted him as he was.
He is in recovery today... but i still do not turn my hope into an expectaion because i know that recovery holds no promises,
I just live for today and hope for tomorrow
Blessings

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