The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have been on the AA board on this site for over 2 years. I came there when I had about 60 days sober (which was a pink chip in the meetings in my area). I am here to learn and understand more about how alcoholism affects families. I am also a therapist, though I don't claim to have expertise that I don't. I did have a 7 year relationship with another alcoholic that ended the day I decided to get sober. That was the only way I knew how to deal with things at the time. Thankfully, the only thing that really kept me trapped in that relationship was my own alcoholism (no kids, no marriage).
Mostly, I want to better understand what families go through so that if and when I sponsor another alcoholic, I will have a better grip on the ammends that they might need to make and the damage they have caused. I hope to learn more from all of you guys and if my experience in recovery can help anyone, I would be honored (though I know there are other alcoholics here too "Double Winners" as you say right?)
Looking forward to getting to know you and sharing the journey .
Here, as in AA we share our ESH with each other. We try to advise each other as to the Program tools that might work in a situation and trust when a member is ready the clarity and actions will follow.
Well Mark: I read your post several times and sat here and thought about your question. Interesting, that you would ask. My Ah is in rehab as we speak. We had the "Family" 2 day therapy classes. (Where the families face the AH in a group and unload their frustrations,hurts,feelings) I was in a group of 7 other A and their families. On the 2nd day, the AH got to come back to the group and they got to unload their responses to the families. It was very, very emotional to hear your AH stories and then to top it off other families & children.
There was 3 other married couples and 3 single men w/ their families.
From what I saw, from others, was lots of hurts, distrust, anger, shame. But mostly hurt.
Then it was my turn, I had all of the above issues: But mainly my ANGER was to the top of the building. I believe the counselor attending the meeting was even in shock, how much anger I carried.
ANGER: He let me down, He pushed away my children, He lied, He stoled, He mentally abused me, my kids, my family, my friends. He shamed me in public, He financially drank us broke, He made a disgrace out of his personal hygeine/health, He stoled my life. (Anything more? lol) I guess when you hit those MOMMY buttons, and you have lost your children over it. I have lost who I am...Im not a mom, Im not a wife....What am I? Im angry that I allowed this to happen. Im angry that I didnt understand the facts of alcohol. Im angry that I didnt see what it was doing to my family over the years. Im angry that I didnt put my foot down & mean business years ago.
Im angry that Im 50 years old and sit here on this computer writting this stuff, with no money in the bank, ready to lose our home, wondering where Im going to eat next, wondering if I will ever get to see my children again, wondering where Im going next in life, wondering what the next hour will bring, wondering if I can make it thru this, wondering how much more I can handle, wondering how I could have been so stupid. So many wonders......and so much pain and anger.
My pain shows up with alot of anger, so thats how everyone sees it. I guess thats how I hide alot of my pain is thru anger.
One man in the class told me, I wish my wife could express how she feels like you, but he Thanked me for unleashing my feelings and told me he could hear his wifes feelings thru me.
Normal relationships have a hard time understanding the opposite sex. So I think in a A relationship, it is way more complexed than most can understand. The stories are similiar, but the pains vary from story to story. Especially when there are children involved or short/long marriages or the severity of the A and the severity of the A mental hang ups. (Mental hangs ups) Wow...That is an entire New Subject! Each person on this earth, has their own hang ups or ways of thinking, put alcohol on top of that, and it is like putting gasoline on fire... My A mental issues are probably more dangerous to my family than the alcohol. They are very negative & destructive. The alcohol gave him the courage to speak his peice of mind, to act in a "Not Normal' behavior. Which lead into destruction of a family...
Alanon has taught me some good tools. But it's real easy for me to apply them and use them everyday, because hes still in the rehab center.
The real test will be in 20 more days (for the both of us)
I believe each person, depending on their backgrounds/childhoods, the paths that they have walked in life, what is in their heart, makes each story just alittle bit different in recovery on both sides of the fence.
I know in the rehab center, they teach alot of behavior adjustments to the A. But I only wish there was more education on teaching the A, what they really have done to the loved ones. Some of the A's that I saw in 2 days, got the picture, and some did not, and some just did not care.
Today, I cant even walk in the grocery store, without everyone looking at me, as if I was the "CRAZY" one for staying here beside him. I chuckle under my breath, asking myself the same question. I am trying to figure out who I am and once I figure that out, it will determine if I will be here for very much longer as his wife.
They teach you one day at a time. I teach myself, One minute at a time...
I hope this helps you in your study. Once you figure out anger in a NORMAL woman & what makes her tick, then try to figure out the anger in a A marriage and Im sure you will become a millionare! lol
Hey Mark, welcome. It's Danielle, or workingout, from the AA boards. :)
Kimmyjo - My AH is also in rehab right now. It's his first rehab, he was in detox before that, he's 28, I'm 29. We have councelling services with addiction and marriage councellors available through rehab, for both of us, as a couple, and indivdually. However, I have yet to hear of the 'family day'.
I think that would be eye opening for my AH, to sit and listen to not only me, but others for once, talk about the hurt he's caused. I wish his rehab place had something similar. I think it would be good too cause it would also serve to open up the councellors eyes as well - as even hough AH is becoming more open and honest, I'm sure he still downplays the extent of things... and he has fooled so many professionals in the past. ...
I think they don't have that much ability to focus on how bad they hurt others. The first step is accepting how bad the alcohol hurt the alcoholic (self). That would seem to be why all the urging and pleading wont do much good. I know the family can be a huge motivator, but they can't be higher power and they cannot be the sole reason for sobriety. Most of us alcoholics have treated our families like garbage for years. We are so self-centered that we honestly perceive desperate pleas as nagging. Developing empathy and making ammends to family comes in step 8 and 9 and most people cop out before ever reaching those steps.
I can say that alcohol had such a grip on me that I didn't know who I was hurting. I was committing slow suicide and had NO PERSPECTIVE that sitting back and making people who loved me watch that was just an awful and evil thing to do.
For those of you who's partners are in rehab..I would like you to know that only a full integration and participation in AA is going to keep your spouse sober. Of course you cannot control whether or not this happens, but success depends on building a program of recovery through AA. Many will get out of Rehab and half-heartedly go to meetings, not bother finding a sponsor, and not working any steps. That is where they fail. This is what sets up a pattern of going to like 20 rehabs in a year when the answer to recover is right there in AA all along. They need to go to meetings daily for quite some time and build up a strong program of recovery. An alcoholic after rehab is not "treated" only minimally stabilized to the point where they can begin the real work of AA. If they do the steps, they will eventually grow up and develop some perspective and remorse for the awful way they treated you.
I am really glad to be learning from you guys and opening up to see more sides of this disease and how harmful it can be. Wishing everyone a blessed day today.
Aloha Mark...Enabling is not only a family member characteristic it can also be used for members of the "helping profession". To a large and justifiable degree lots and lots of people are helpers of "fixers" it is part of the natural system. We want people to be well and happy and many times loose ourselves in that effort and so the problem gets worse...much worse as we loose them and ourselves at the same time. We come to understand that we cannot fix anyone in denial and against their wills and the nature of the chemical and disease. It will never work.
To an alcoholic nothing interferes with the drinking relationship...nothing and anyone or thing that seems to or wants to interfere with it gets pushed away out of the picture. I have witnessed anger on the level of rage from the family, friends and associates of alcoholics because they found themselves in the consequences of uncontrolled addictive drinking and using.
I also know from experience that drunks and addicts are not stupid or unaware. They can still "sense" a problem, read body language, and understand that they have violated and inner value system that they have too...one that says don't hurt people. The compulsion and Obsession is so strong against any defense to it...Insane.
Welcome to the board...the "other" room. You'll do well.
Here is a bit more of what I think actually does qualify me for Alanon:
I decided it will do better to identify here than compare. My ex did do a number on me with his disease too. I had to have him hospitalized one time when he was so drunk he tried to kill himself on my psych meds...he also started having such bad health problems from his drinking and smoking that he would randomly start coughing, choking and pass out like a 350 pound ton of bricks. It scared the hell out of me. I would stand behind him at the bar in case he fell out. One time I didn't catch him and he fractured his face on the side of the bar. He was also having pain so bad in his stomach he started moaning all the time. I was worried he was going to die and if I didn't hear him snoring from the other room I got up to check on him every time it fell silent at night (if I wasn't passed out myself). We both took turns falling drunk on the floor. I was the one who was able to keep a steady job while he went bankrupt and ruined my finances. I let that happen though and I just drank more to ignore when our lights were getting shut off, the water turned off, and car insurance canceled. When my parents expressed concern about the relationship, he decided my mother was a bitch and stated this at least a few times a week. I was so so so very misererable and it was such a dark time in my life. I called the AA hotline a few times asking not only about my drinking, but if I could stop drinking with him in my life. In the end, I knew the answer was no and it just took me crashing my car drunk to realize I wasn't going to sink any lower with me or him. When I went back to get my stuff and move out, he waved a bottle of liqour in my face cuz he knew I was going to AA at that time and he wanted to upset me for dumping him. He told me I couldn't leave cuz I didn't make enough money and wouldn't survive on my own. I bought that for a while.
Well flashforward 2 years. He now lives almost uncomftably close to my new boyfriend. He still drinks and I don't care cuz it's not my problem. I think he has gotten somewhat better cuz I thought he was gonna die when he was with me. I have been so focused on my own recovery (and i did actually make amends to him for my part of what our relationship consisted of) that I never really thought about long term damage from the whole experience. When I talk to him, his life still sounds kinda nutty whereas mine is much more peaceful. I wish him the best though and it was not all miserable bad times (especially in the beginning).
Welcome Mark, I am glad you decided to join the AlAnon board also.
After a few months of unavoidable neglect to my program I have been spending quite a bit of time here the last week or so and every post I read is reminding me of all the things and tools I need to remember every day. Your post when you spoke of the checking on your A during the hight brought back all the exhausted times I stayed awake listening for the breathing and the choking ... the vomit, being vomited on while sleeping sitting up next to the bed. I had a hard time letting go of the guilt that when i left my exah would die in his sleep. Thankfully he is some place where he can do little to harm himself by addiction and maybe even learning the tools and accepting a way of life that will better his life as my program has done for mine.
KimmyJo brought up anger. I too shocked therapists with my anger, I guess they did not expect me to be able to express myself that well or have that much to say but I did. I got stuck in the anger stage of the grief process, I truly still feel the man I married died and this monster took over his body. There was just so much to be angry at, all his horrible actions, stealing, lying, harming himself, the loss of my friend, the loss of my dream of what my life would encompass, my home, some of my pets, my belongings. With the perspective of years time to slowly let go of alot of those feelings I can now compare myself to a very very large child having the largest VALID temper tantrum you could possibly imagine. Reading KimmyJo's words I could feel it all. I am not angry anymore, i feel acceptance for everything that happened but the experience of living through those emotions will never go away. I choose to look at why having these experiences has made me a better person with a stronger internal system than I ever was before.
Jennifer: Thanks for the reply, Nice to know Im not the only one who has such anger feelings. I sometimes think my anger is a blanket to hide the hurt....We are so use to being SUPER WOMAN....and that woman packs a cape, not a kleenex! Glad you carry a kleenex now, Im still wearing my cape! (Someday soon, I hope, I can pack a kleenex)
I have to say this is a fascinating thread! My AH of 22 years is 6 months sober now. After an initial 5 weeks in intensive outpatient, he has done 90 AA meetings in 90 days and still goes almost daily, works with a great sponsor and is doing well.
Kimmy, your post really touched me. I too wish that my AH's program had a family day. To this day, 6 months later, I feel I have not had a chance to have my say. I also feel he has no earthly notion how much he hurt me with his lies and deception. Essentially he sat back and allowed me to think he was having some sort of mental illness, stroke or god forbid, Alzheimers because his behavior was so erratic, speech slurred, gait unsteady, mood all over the map, etc and he ALWAYS denied drinking.
For me, my biggest feeling from all of this is deep hurt and betrayal. Our marriage and family (2 kids, 10 &14) took second place if any place at all behind alcohol, and he appeared not to care or possibly even know how much he was hurting us. I still am not sure how to get at this so our marriage can hopefully heal.
Cloudsea: Ideally your husband will work the steps and that will be part of his program. He has not gotten to the steps that call for him to make amends yet for where he hurt others. That is steps 8 and 9. If he does a good job up to that point and gets to those steps, that is when you are going to get the realizations of what he did and the amends that go with it.
If he does not work the steps, he may be able to stay sober for a while, but he wont have the kind of growth that he needs to "man up" over what he did and be a truly changed person. I pray for you that he works a thorough program. I even made amends to my ex and he was just as nasty and evil to me as I was to him....but it was about keeping my side of the street clean so I had to do it anyhow.
