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he has been sober for over a year... last week i was moving out when he sat down and spoke and had a discussion-- not something he does- he said he needed time to change and let's give it another shot.. i thought for a couple of days and then agreed... he tried for a week and then last night was out with his friends again- that's his thing.. he isnt drinking but wants to do only what he feels like and is with friends all the time... he met some girls out and messaged and told me about thier flirting... on a normal nigh i guess i'd be okay - i dont know- but at a time when we are trying to make things work wit another chance he goes out and does this... when he got home i told him i need one month- one month of him being with me, doing dinners wit me, spending some time at home and if he needs to party it'll be with me-- He said NO he said he would not give in to any conditions or live with any conditions.. so i have to leave today--- and it hurts so much... he woke up this morning and left home before i was awake.. i messaged him and said i was leaving and then sent a another message and said i wish for all the years i have waited for him to become sober i wish he'd give me one month-- well-- no replies to any of them...
i had prepared myself earlier and when he said he wants to change it brought back some hope... i'm not perfect.. i have done some very silly things too.. and used alcohol as an escape from the stress myself-- bu i dont want to live on drinks or distractions... i need to get back and be able to work.. i take care fnancially of my mother and brother who is in school...
something inside me tells me i need to go... my bags are packed but i cant find the strenght to pick them up and leave... he is a nice person and i love him so much.. people in our program have been telin me i need to leave for a while now.. how do i find the courage... how do i detach from someone i love so much...
You are in a hard situation. I'm so sorry. Often when people find sobriety, they don't have much experience at living sober -- and we don't have much experience at living with them sober. Relationships are so hard sometimes that I'm surprised anybody can do them well.
Of course I haven't lived in your house and I have very little idea of what the real dynamics are. What strikes me from your description is that both people are making the decisions on their own. That seems typical of a formerly-alcoholic household to me. My AH would make the decision to get drunk without consulting me, obviously, and I had to make my decisions without consulting him because his only interest was getting drunk. So we were two people in the same house acting as if no one else was there. I don't mean that the other person should have gotten veto power over our decisions, but that it would have been good if we'd have the capacity to negotiate together about what we wanted. (Although of course I would have liked veto power over his drinking! If only!)
One thing in our relationship also was that he just seemed incapable of seeing things from my point of view. Even if he couldn't agree with it, I yearned for him to see how things were for me. He could have said, "I think I do a lot of the chores. But I see you're feeling overworked because you do the daily stuff, and there's a lot of it. So..." Just an acknowledgement of where I was coming from. But he had zero experience of that.
What I see from your description is that you feel he doesn't pay as much attention to you as you'd like -- maybe takes you for granted? And maybe you've been through a lot before he stopped drinking, and you'd like some extra time and attention to sort of soothe you for that, as would be totally understandable? And he goes out with his friends. I imagine you see that as him saying that he's not going to give you attention, and he may see that as you being controlling. So you both polarize (I know this so well from my own life!) You say, "You can't go out with your friends!" And he says, "I'm going out with them no matter what you say!" So there's no conversation about the meaning of it all. And you're both making decisions the old way, without involving the other person.
I wonder what he meant by texting that other women were flirting with him? Did he mean "Hey, I'm an attractive guy? See, other women were after me!" Sort of a way of saying, "I'm not as bad as you think I am, so you should appreciate me too"? That would be a little bit like your text saying "I'm sorry you couldn't give me a month," both asking for some appreciation. Or maybe he was saying, "These girls are flirting, I wanted to tell you to be straightforward"? Or -- ?
I wonder if here one should still follow the make-no-decisions-for-six-months rule. There's what my old therapist would call "high reactivity" here, isn't there? You're both still figuring out how to run your lives and get what you want from the other person.
That wasn't the ESH you asked for, and it might not apply at all. If it doesn't, please disregard. Do take care of yourself. I think the tools of Al-Anon are so helpful for dealing with life in general. I will look forward to seeing what others say.
Hi, I am not sure if you are attending meetings sounds like you could do with some support and understanding you will find this in the rooms of al anon. They say try 6 meetings if its not for you they will give you your misery back. I did not want my misery back so kept going. I have been attending for 3 years now and have never felt so supported as I do today by people who understand my situation. Who do not judge, or give advice but give lots of love and support.
I was addicted to my boyfriend I looked to him for love and support, he felt very secure he new I would not leave no matter what. I DID NOT MATTER TO ME> In al anon they loved me till I loved myself. Today I am still with my partner and he is newly sober like your partner, but something has changed he treats me with more respect and love because I love and respect me today. No one can tell you wether to stay or go. Only you know what is right for you, the life you desire. Hope you make the decision you matter and attend a meeting for you.
Also at the top of the board there is an offer for a book called getting them sober, this book really helped me I would suggest you read it
hugs
-- Edited by Tracy on Sunday 16th of January 2011 08:40:24 AM
Hi and thank you for your post. Texts you to let you know about his flirting, i mean wow....Sounds to me like anything goes here and no matter what he does its ok....please get to meetings, we become crazier that they do, theres a reason it states that in there :)
I'm so sorry you have this situation. I can relate. Mattie makes a good point about independent decisions.
Finding Alanon after I divorced, I wonder how things would be today had I found Alanon and worked the program a year prior to that decision; but, for me, I believe things must have happened this way for a reason. I never felt ready to leave him; the force that brought me to executing the divorce was facing financial ruin from his debt. In my naive way, I thought that we could still work on the relationship as we worked our recovery program... potentially remarry. He married someone he sat next to in his AA group, so I must learn how to continue my journey alone after 20 years of marriage.
Looking back, I can recognize that the insanity increased when he became sober. Reading these boards, I have come to understand that this is common, as there is an adjustment period to sobriety. Also, recovery isn't typically a linear process, but more of a mixed bag which may or may not lead to desired outcomes.
Just so you know you are not alone, my exHA also spoke of other women complimenting him- it seemed that he did it as an ego boost and to show that he is not a bad person. He would/ does show generosity to others but no longer extended/ extends this to me. I was/am not perfect, but I could not give him all he needs and don't think that anyone can... but, I can't dwell here for too long as it isn't healthy for me to do so.
He also has and still does whatever he wants, and does not feel he has to answer to any authority.
I had expectations, as do you- and- if this were a 'normal' relationship, those expectations may make sense. However, rationality cannot sensibly be applied to the disease.
If you are not ready to move out, divorce, etc then take another step back, take another breath, or perspective. If you don't have a sponsor, it would be good to find one to help you with the steps and applying the principles of Alanon. I do think we'll be able to find joy again no matter what decisions were made or not made.
I am so sorry that this is happening in your life. Your sign on name is a real indicator of life on life's terms. I know how hard it is to walk out that door. I have been right where you are, with a 7 year old and a cat in a carrier.
Please remember leaving is not a tool to manipulate a situation. Please examine your motives and ask HP for guidance.
If you honestly have hit your bottom and need to leave for your own mental halth and life then do it . One Moment at a Time. Lift up that bag and walk out the door. Do not project into tomorrow. Just stay in the moment and the day and do the next right thing
Today's reading in our One Day at a Time reader said it all. "I am an individual with the right to a good life. I must not look to anyone else to make that good life for me,this I must do for myself (page 16)
Life will unfold and HP will guide you
Praying for your peace.
-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 16th of January 2011 09:41:42 AM
-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 16th of January 2011 09:44:18 AM
yes I make meetings.. waited the six month period a couple of times to decide.. have lost jobs, self esteem and began to think i was ugly- so yes am leaving for mental health... its difficult.. but thank you for the reminder of 'one day at a time'... walking out the door now... need your prayers to survive n be strong...
lots of love.. wish you'll peace and happiness- God Bless...
How well I know that feeling of starting to feel ugly!
Hope your new door includes an interent connection so you can come here for support. Wishing you strength and peace!
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Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could... Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. - Emerson
Forgive me if I am repeating what others have said already....he is not sober. Drinking/drugging is only 1% of the disease. The other 99% is mental. A sober, healthy individual would never text to tell you he is flirting, or refuse to make consessions to save a relationship.
But then again, he is telling you who he is so LISTEN to him. Just because you want him to be someone different doesn't mean he will.
Really, he is giving you a gift. He is letting you know who he is and you are free to leave. Personally, I would leave and not look back. I would put all of my energy into focusing on myself and figuring out why I choose to allow an A to define the way I see myself.
Actually, that is what I have done and it is so much more rewarding than trying to analyse or save an A.
Sorry you are going thru this. My XAH put me thru a lot of chaos and pain thru the years.
Today Im a different woman than I was then. The disease of alcoholism can confuse us and make us doubt ourselves.
We are not suppose to give you advise, just our experience. Well its my experience that we cannot blame all the personality flaws on their alcoholism. We have to take them at face value and listen to what he is saying. Yes, alcoholics are different people, they are not normal, but that doesnt mean we lose our own self respect because they have a disease.
Whether you stay or go we still have to develop ourselves into independent, self sufficient women, we cannot depend on another person, husband or not, alcoholic or not. Give the alcoholic enough rope and he will hang himself until he decides he wants to live sober and clean. Yes, I did most of my changing while living with the A, but it was tough, because I didnt want to make that decision to part until It was good for me, was the marriage good in the last 8 years? No, even with the tools of Alanon, it was tortuous. He never stopped drinking, because the longer they drink, it gives them a sense of false power and will that is difficult to contend with. My HP stepped in and I had a stroke, there it was, we had to part.
I'm probably much older than you, Ive heard it said that the people that walk the path before you make it easier for the people that follow because of our experiences. Listen to what your life is telling you. You will get more of the same from the AH, your decisions dont depend on him. He is letting you know, this is the way its going to be. Doesnt matter if its right or wrong or unfair or how good you have been to him or even how much you love him.
Live the program , implement it in your life, your HP is for you and is in your best interest.
Keep coming back , I truly wish the best for you. Luv, Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Sunday 16th of January 2011 01:48:22 PM
Wholeheartedly agree with Freeagain: But then again, he is telling you who he is so LISTEN to him.
We tend to think we are without strength when we must do the hard things. What we fail to realize is it takes just the same amount of energy to create a new life as it does to stay stuck in the old one.
Keep looking forward..and take lessons learned instead of baggage with you.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Hi This to Shall Pass. Sorry to hear about what's going on. I feel your frustration.
I also wonder about the motivation behind him texting you about the flirting. Does not sound like something a healthy person would do. It sounds like manipulation.
I hope you are able to find peace and comfort and love yourself. He sounds like a very selfish person to me, but more to the point, like a person who is not caring to put a decent effort into NOT wanting to be selfish anymore, or trying. After all you've put up with (I'm imagine, while he was drinking), and now through sobriety, a year of it, he cannot even give you a month, or talk with you in an open honest way, just goes and runs off with his friends to flirt with some random people. I hope you find strength.
I like what Christy said, "What we fail to realize is it takes just the same amount of energy to create a new life as it does to stay stuck in the old one". Powerful words.
When I was living in the chaos my exah's alcoholism created I often fell into traps of manipulation similar in some ways to what you described in your post. And I also spent years attempting to understand his motivations and thoughts behind these actions but the truth for me was there is no understanding unreasonable, erratic and hurtful actions. Something I learned to do as a way of practicing detachment was to ask myself if this behavior was coming from another source in a comparable situation would I accept the treatment? Say if my employer called and told me they were thinking of interviewing people for my current position replacing my exah flirting with his party friends ... when I remove the pain and need to instantly react I had become programmed to with my exah, I see that I would find similar behavior in another area of my life unacceptable and a reason to take care of myself first. Working on detachment was extremely important for me as it freed some of the energy I had up to give me the strength I needed at particularily hard times. Sending my prayers that you find the source of strength you need to take care of you.
I also bargained for attention and pleaded for my way of life for short periods of time. It never worked out that well. More than anything my disappointment each time created larger and larger resentments at how I sacrificed and tolerated his life for his happiness or what he thought of happiness. Being the long suffering wife became such a habit that it took a very long time to admit to myself I could live the life I wanted at any timeI just could not control him to make him want it too, honestly I could not even shame him into it. "Merry Go Round of Denial" was something I read at least 10 times a day for probably a year, it is still one of my favorite readings. I found strength to make the best decisions for me in those words.
Thank you for letting me get out some things I needed to release. Take what you like and leave the rest. Sending prayers of strength to you.
Thank you for your post.....I have been sitting in my house crying for an hour or more. I am also dealing with a sober abf....three years under his belt. He will be wonderful for a peroid of time and then the next minute it's him needing to find that perfect girl. How it will never be me how I lead myself on. Then he gives me a little bit of hope and takes it right back. Then just as I'm moving on he's back and swears he's changed. It's hard but it's not just about their diesese....we are being emotional abused. I think you like me need to think about what is healthy for me to make myself happy with out him. My prayers are with you.
Take it from me...from someone who had a husband like yours...who ALWAYS put his friends first, going out ALL the time, every night after work in our early years, (until it turned into binging) and then he'd be gone for a week or more at a time..... If he doesn't care enough about you and your marriage...then walk away while you're still young enough to do it!! This past week I have felt that I wasted all my young good years with someone who didn't give a crap about me! Someone that I bent over backwards for and would do anything for and waited around to get sober for...and he never did, and instead time just passed me by and we still ended up apart.
Something that I have learned over the years is that when we get together with someone when we are young, and we get married...for a lot of us, those are the hardest relationships to let go of, because we feel we are unable to physically and mentally let go, we think we will die without this person and therefore we hold on for so long....so much longer than we ever should and then years down the road when we are finally grown up enough and strong enough to let go, we look back and wished we would have done it then, when we thought about it...but didn't have the strength to do it........
Just remember you deserve to have a relationship that is not one sided...one where you both are giving to each other...right now you do all the giving and he does all the taking.....stop giving to him and give to yourself for once. You can do it....lean on your friends and family and your Alanon family :) Your a firework....show them what you're worth!! :)
Something I learned to do as a way of practicing detachment was to ask myself if this behavior was coming from another source in a comparable situation would I accept the treatment? Say if my employer called and told me they were thinking of interviewing people for my current position replacing my exah flirting with his party friends ... when I remove the pain and need to instantly react I had become programmed to with my exah, I see that I would find similar behavior in another area of my life unacceptable and a reason to take care of myself first.
This is a really great illustration of reframing as a means of detachment, Jen!
I've started doing this myself when ABF's actions start troubling me. I ask myself if this is behaviour that I would tolerate within a friendship.
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Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could... Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. - Emerson
Wow. I found this thread so full of good stuff. Mattie - I finally realized after reading your post that my AH and me are totally living independent lives and making independent decisions about everything. It has been bothering me, and I didn't realize it is something that occurs in families with alcoholism. Somehow I feel better knowing it is not just us. Living with a newly sober A is 'xxxx' terrible. It is wierd and uncomfortable for both of us. I am going to give it another 6 months. Then I am out.
-- Edited by canadianguy on Tuesday 17th of May 2011 11:11:09 AM
