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My former partner who I care for drinks because she was abused by her Father (sexual & violence).
Most of the locals who gravitate towards her socially when she is out are also damaged people who drink or have other issues. I have not come across any of her friends who drink just for drinking sake, they are all using alcohol to block out past traumas.
I obviously know alcoholism is a disease that can run through the family but personally in my experiences there is always a reason that starts the drinking.................................
Just wondered what you guys think or have experienced please?
-- Edited by Speck on Thursday 23rd of December 2010 10:25:23 PM
i'm not so sure there is always a reason. i remember asking my AH recently if he was drinking because he was unhappy and he said that wasn't it. there was no reason, he just HAS to have a drink and he can't control it once he starts...he can't stop.
Aloha Speck...for me it was genetics...both sides of the family and generationally. My maternal Grandmother turned me on and didn't know she was doing it when I was 9 years old. I didn't just run out and go find a bar...alcoholism is a progressive disease and by the time I reached the doors of recovery I didn't know what it was how to spell it or what it looked like. I didn't even know that the wife I drank with or myself was alcoholic. My entire family has been deeply affected by compulsive obsessive alcohol and drug addiction. Some of them don't like the idea that Unka Jerry doesn't drink anymore and don't like to hear the word sober. People become alcoholic by abusive use and obsessive/compulsive drinking without the genetic marker...yes there is dna marker for addiction.
Distilled alcohol predates the life of Christ by some 5 thousand years so we are a pretty altered population by now. The Chinese (love those smartie easterners) have a philosophy for an alcoholic...First the man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink then the drink takes the man. Pretty right on don't you think? Notice also that it's the "man" and not anything else.
This is a good thread and I hope others come with their ESH.
For sure you tend to see a higher incidence of addiction issues in people with traumatic pasts, but that isn't always the case.
My ABF had a charmed childhood, child prodigy, head of his class -- and an alcoholic father. I think he quite simply had a genetic predisposition to react to alcohol the way he did. He has told me that he took his first drink and felt as if he'd "come home". His younger brother, at 45 years of age and apparently a normal drinker, suddenly developed alcoholism about 2 years ago.
My parents were both alcoholics (my mother is now deceased) and I've never known of anything particularly traumatic in their pasts, unless you count growing up during wartime Britain, which would have produced an entire nation of alcoholics if that were the case.
Alcohol is a physically addictive substance, and some people are just going to be more prone to being caught in its snare.
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Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could... Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. - Emerson
For my AH I think: 1. he has a genetic link to addiction, 2. his family are not positive thinkers (i.e. fatalists: you will never finish college it's too difficult), and 3. he probably has Major Depression. It's hard to say which came first the depression of the alcoholism. I suspect that something traumatic happened to him also. But he can't even tell me about his work day he will probably never tell such a secret to me.
My AH (who is in detox right now so I'm finally able to breath!) his dad was an alcoholic and did lots of drugs.
I think, anyway. My AH isn't sure and AH's mom also isn't sure cause they divorced when my AH was 4 and then when AH was 6 or so, his mom moved him to another city..he continued to go visit his dad though.
Ah says he remembers bongs and pipes and weed laying around. AH's mom told me that AH's dad was probably really into drinking and drugs when he died. AH's dad died when he was 39 of a heart attack.
So, for my AH, there is genetic factor, also lots of mental illness on both sides of AH's family. AH has severe anxiety disorder and depression.
There is a traumatic childhood event: AH's dad dying when AH was 11 years old. AH was flying alone to the other city to visit his dad, his dad died while AH was on the plane - so dad's friend went to pick AH up at the airport and had to tell AH that his died just died. (Horrible, I can't imagine).
AH's mom remarried when AH was young so AH had a step dad. AH said he never liked or got along with his stepdad...that he was "too harsh" or too strict or got too mad. AH said this made him shy.
I dunno. AH is very sensitive. SO, who knows what came first. AH's step dad is weird and sometimes can be annoying but I really like him, he's super nice. AH and step dad get along great now.
So, for my AH. There's genetics, childhood trauma, and no development of healthy coping skills - AH keeps everything inside, internalizes everything.
AH's drinking went from getting too drunk and sick and passing out once every couple months at an event to weekly to daily vodka bottles with added stress like school and new job/house ect... His disease progressed fast...
I find addiction first very very sad, but very interested. I can't stop reading about it.
Getting somebody who has been abused as a child to open up about it is not easy to say the least. This can vary from neglect to sexual/violent abuse or in the case of my former partner just about every abuse you can think of.
It took me ten years to get to the whole truth and get her to seek help to deal with her issues.They feel that its too vile to discuss and feel dirty, degraded and have next to no self esteem or worth.
If anybody is in a similar position to me there is hope, the hardest part is getting them to seek therapy and then to tell the therapist what happened allowing the recovery to begin.
I have had one 15 year marriage (we remain good friends) and Ive been with my partner also for 15 years although it has broken down as a relationship as such. Unfortunately both women were subjected to abuse as children.
I would strongly recommend anybody involved with an A to seek counselling, I did and it helped me greatly. It was an education as well and helped me come to terms with my experiences and enabled me to cope better in the future. A better understanding of an A and how they think...........................
To add my 2 cents worth, The XAh that I was married too for 26 years tried to figure that one out many times. "Why did he drink" I think and so did he agree that it was mostly genetic, His Father was an alcoholic, his Mother was a Mayan Indian and they definitely cannot drink, but she did, both brothers were alcoholics. Also, his Grandfather drank and he was abusive to him, not sexual, but physically. So he had both, genetic and abuse. There are lots of people that are abused, but they dont all turn to drinking. My first husbands Father was an alcoholic, but my first husband didnt drink.
Knowing for the XAH, that it was genetic still didnt deter him from doing so. Its that powerful. He always use to tell me in the beginning of our marriage. " I will never be like my Father", his father died from alcoholism at 50, it brought on a heart attack. The XA husband has had the massive heart attack, right on time, at 50, somehow he survived it.
All I know as I have lived with the disease and observed it up close, its mind boggling, crazy, baffling and destructive to everybody it touches.
The one thing they do know is abstinence keeps it in remission, even the knowledge of that isnt enough. My hope is more research be done with this horrible disease and that the stigma of having this disease will lessen as time goes on.
-- Edited by Bettina on Friday 24th of December 2010 02:41:13 AM
I can only speak from my own experience. I was physically, emotionally and sexually abused as a child. I was also surrounded by A's all my life in my younger days I will admit I think I tried to become and A. I drank, used drugs etc. But it just wasn't in me to let it control my life and when I married and had a child all that was left behind. However I displayed my pain in other ways, I developed an eating disorder pretty early in life and didn't seek help until my first child was born. I came out of denial of my disease because I was not going to leave my child motherless. My husband who also comes from a severly addictive background and I moved away from our A's when our children were young thinking if we got them away from the daily drama and trauma we could break the cycle. we gave our children what we thought was an idllic childhood....they were loved, in a stable home, we were very involved parents But genetics kicked in with our son. He turned to drugs in his teens. Thought maybe it was a phase, but we got him counseling, went to drug classes thought we did all the right things. But looking in his eyes I could see extreme pain and I've no idea where that pain came from or when he decided he was unworthy, unloveable etc and sunk into addiction. I don't think we can ever really know what that trigger is that turns someone into an A it is thier coping skills and for those of us brought up in dysfunction we do not develop good or healthy coping skills. Had i known about how deeply I had been effected by my childhood, I promise you I would have ran to alanon when my children were young we may have moved away from our active A's but we moved our dysfunctional thinking and coping skills with us and passed them along to our children I am not sure you will ever get a true answer to your question I have found that I need to put the "why's" out of my head because it does me no good. I need to focus on the here and now Blessings
I think that some people just use that as an excuse to drink. If it were really the case, then wouldn't about 90% of the population have a problem? There are many of us that come from trauma or have messed up lives, but we don't self medicate. Just living with an A should be enough to say "hey, I'm going to self medicate myself because this person has been ruined my life!" I have read lots of memoirs of people who have had it so much worse and somehow they come out pretty decent. It does lead me to believe that it really is more of a mental problem rather than an excuse or a choice?
Some very strong and moving replies there, I can only wish you all the best in your various situations.
Child abuse of any sort in my humble opinion is just about the most disgusting/disturbing criminal act there is, following 12 weeks of therapy I have managed to calm down and deal with my angry emotions towards my former partners parents (the abusers in my tale of woe).
I have been the driving force in protecting my former partner from manipulation and control by them and action that will hopefully bring them to justice.The father works in a Hospital with kids believe it or not, a long story but I have been threatened and slandered by these scumbags for the last 5 years mostly.
The Police have completed their investigation and we await the decision of the criminal prosecution service regarding taking him to court and hopefully Prison.I know the purists might say forgive and forget but this is a complicated case and he is still a danger.
Im not proud to say that earlier this year I went to his house with the intention of causing him harm, despite all the threats to me he refused to come out and face me.I lost the plot and damaged his house and cars, I then sprayed the house and garage with anti paedophile slogans.Youve guessed it; I was arrested, held in a cell and taken to Court, ended up with a large legal bill and a fine.This is the first time in my life I have ever been in trouble.
Realising I was losing control of myself I went to therapy, thankfully it worked.The Police emailed me yesterday to say the CPS will decide on 6th Jan 11 if he is to be done. If there is any justice in this world he will go down for a very long time.
Some of his actions compare to Nazi prison guard brutality.
-- Edited by Speck on Friday 24th of December 2010 12:33:20 PM
I think many of us that dont come from that kind of abusive background find it so difficult to believe that this stuff goes on, but it does. I came from a warm Italian family and thought I married another warm Italian guy, not true, we never know the dysfunction of some other families. This was my first husband. I had married very young.
My daughter who was abducted by her own Father while we were going thru a divorce and taken out of the country, was molested from the time she was a small child till who knows , when we were finally reunited when she was 25 she suffered a psychotic breakdown and ended up in lockdown as a danger to herself and others. I dont often talk about the molestation, but the day I thought would be our wonderful reunion , was the day I sat across from a girl that developed multiple personalities to cope with the horrible abuse.
It took me quite sometime to deal with the rage that I had toward the Father. First the 25 years before when he took her, dealing with that rage, and then 20 years later seeing the result of that abduction. Its been a long road back for my daughter and I. Sometimes I wished that I were a man and had that physical power to go and beat the living daylights out of her Father, but I remember over the years how this all ate at me and made me physically ill. All that would have accomplished was my own death from some disease . My Buddhist faith and Alanon was my saving grace.
My XA husband never told me too much about his childhood, it was like he had many secrets, but one nite , he told me some horrific details about his childhood, he was in the care of his Grandfather who was a big military leader from Spain, since his Dad had passed away so young, I think he was hiding out in the hills of El Salvador, thats where my X is from, anyway, when my x was a boy he use to wake him up by kicking him in the ribs, every morning. I started to cry upon hearing this, I didnt want to hear it. Why are you telling me this was my response. One thing it made me face is that we dont know the lives of those that are close to us, we dont know their secrets. What if I was the one that was kicked every morning , what if I was the one that had a drunken Father, would I turn to drink to block out those memories. After awhile it gave me a different perspective of the alcoholic.
Yes, the disease is baffling, cunning, devastating to our lives. We can fix that , we can get help thru Alanon , we get to be grateful for this program. For the Alcoholic, how many really do recover, its not a high percentage. Yes, I separated from the XAH to protect myself, but I think the real point of my life is that I'm grateful even to the alcoholic, as I wouldnt have grown in experience and wouldnt have expanded my understanding and compassion for those who are suffering and theres a lot of that going on in this world.
I learned via education it is like any other gene. Those that are predisposed to be an addict, use drugs, any drug even meds, triggers that gene, chemicals are released in the body.
For whatever reason an addict takes or drinks a drug a reaction happens.
Some people, have more markers than others so their addiction can be at different levels.
The body now sees it as a need, craves it.
This is put very, very simply.
Just like a diabetic. They have the genes in their dna. Something triggers that gene, via too much sugar, too much fat, not enough exercise. etc which causes them to not produce insulin.
Many, many people who are addicts are from a family of addicts, lots of them. So of course there are going to be mental issues as well.
My poor A was horribly abused, as was his whole family. His parents families on both sides were A. More the hidden kind.
He is suffering from PTSD, and multiple personality disorder, saw too much in the Viet Nam war, just a tender country boy, gentle, loving.
But when he touched the alcohol, that was that, then heroin in Thailand. He came back to me on program, then the dang brain surgery, with all those drugs, he is gone for good.
Abuse, neglect etc. do not cause alcoholism. I could drink a week and stop. I don't have the genetic markers. I could have an alcohol problem or a pot problem. But once the mental/emotional part of the "habit" is over, that would be that.
An addict has an actual chemical change in their body. Their bodies believes it HAS to have it! It's nothing any amount of AA or counseling can take away.
BUT they can develop a plan of recovery when or if they are ready to choose a day an hour at a time, maybe go to AA every day more than once a day to not use. IN time they will get the mental habit pretty much gone. But sadly the physical will never leave.
Never. They may be blessed to be on strong program and be happy anyway, the horror of the thought of using is enough to stop them.
I have researched this so much. I know it is what makes it so easy on me now to love the A, and not feel any bitterness. I had the best of him in his life when he was on program. I was blessed.
Xeno I could have written your post, I am so sorry to hear your story, we are so similiar, and have had the same childhood/families.
Speck I am sorry to hear about your wife, I had the same childhood and legal battle, I will pray for you both for January, my husband struggles with his rage towards my father who is now dead, so does my son, they both wanted to kill him for hurting me, they are both quiet shy, polite and well mannered, and the anger inside them is like an alien that makes them feel uncomfortable, it eats away at both of them.
hopefully social services will stop her father working with children, so if nothing else at least she is protecting other kids, tell her I said I am proud of her for surviving and for going to the police, I am also proud of you for standing by her.
Bettina
I saw some familiar parts in your story too, life is so cruel, and so very hard, I pray for all of you on here that you find peace. God Bless you all.
My ex ab's father, mother, grandmother, uncle, aunt, etc., all have/had drinking problems. He grew up in a house where his mom was an alcoholic until she found church and his dad is now an alcoholic and always had an addiction to pills (his dad sold pot as a side job, too)
All of the ex's friends are alcoholic, drug addicts, etc. He has no friends that are healthy and stable. In fact, before we ended the last time, he kept telling his sponsor in AA that his "dance card" was full and could not engage in socializing with other members of AA, but then went out and tracked down an old friend who is only an ex drinker because he is now disabled and cannot drink with all of the medication he takes.
When my A and I got together I did not know he was an alcoholic. Personally I had never had experience of the disease having had a stable childhood albeit being in social housing and with only my mother to look after me.
I took my A at face value and heard stories of neglect and bullying when he was young - he was also bought up in Northern Ireland during the 'troubles' and therefore I had some sympathy that his childhood had not perhaps been happy.
As time went on I grew to recognise that his drinking was not normal, it was excessive and that his personality changed dramatically - for a long time I excused this to potential childhood trauma - and to be fair that may indeed be the case.
It is however irrelevant - it may be his upbringing, it may be his genetic make - up - it may be any number of things but ultimately he is damaged by alcohol - physically, emotionally and spiritually.
I came to al-anon to find answers - and indeed I have - I know far more about alcoholism than I ever perhaps wanted to but I now come to find support, strength and hope for me. I often wonder if this terrible disease came into my life to teach me something - for it is and the tools of this programme help me in many ways over and beyond dealing with my A.
I no longer worry or care why he is an alcoholic - he simply is and I can only focus on how I live with that fact.
Some people experience terrible trauma but never become addicts - others live apparently wonderful lives but become addicted - go figure? Alcoholism can I suspect affect anybody sadly
