The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am taking experience from you guys to write this down then read it like it is another member.
I got an email from an old school mate guy. Was nice. We have been emailing back and forth for a week or so now.
Eased the lonlies plus I like hearing about others lives. I got to where I asked do you smoke? drink?
He is in law enforcement.
No on the smoke. Yes on the drink. "Drink too much sometimes but I am just as loving and caring when I do. I am a happy drunk not mean." Later he says maybe he won't hear from me is if it is a problem for me.
I write back and say, No, its your life, you know it isn't healthy for you. He is on pain meds etc for an injured back, on leave. I added is it a problem for you?
I get an email last night how he has been thru AA and NA but didn't get the support. That he needed a loving person to support him.
Where have I read that a ZILLION times? He has been very open about himself.
But who knows down the road as he gets sicker.
All these red flags! When I first read,"I will have to tell you about that over a glass of wine." Just that first inkling for me was a red flag.
Before I even read him say the thing about AA I had already felt zero. I mean I care, but he is in a pit and needs to pull himself out. And I am NOT into it. I don't care if he has been on program years.
I just sent him a note telling him I am not feeling well, true, so not to worry it is not him. True.
I am making myself clean like crazy, make a meal to last a few days, making some cookies. My goal is to finish the bathroom painting. geez. But the time I get the high stuff done the bottom will need to be done again.
anyway as I am cleaning I am thinking how I want to respond to what he has said. Share my view of it. This would be natural in communication with non A's.
I am questioning what is making me want to? I know it would not change a thing for him. He might like reading it just to have something to read. For me it would reinforce what I know is true. My experience. Not preaching but how i feel, what I have learned.
I would not put, "OH! you want a mommie!" "OH! you have no life so you want to parasite off someone else!" Nature of being an A. So sad. I want, I want, I want.
Not, "I need to get myself on a program of recovery, work on my health the best I can so my back heals."
"Pain is a lot inflammation. So I gotta not drink as it retards my body from its ability to heal." Anyway, I don't believe we go looking for an A. They prey on others who they feel may fill in the spots where they don't have anything but empty space.
sorry my me is MUCH too big to fill up anyones empty space! If I decide I need to change something, I do it on my own. NO one else can do it. Makes sense as if we let others fill in that space, they start seaping out then we gotta get it filled again! If we fill it with our self, our own power, strengths, we can make our bodies and heart whole.
Whole people don't need anyone to make them that way. They need love of course, but our core, our inner us, is that, personal, that which makes us who we are. The one who answers to a higher power. NO one can fill that, build that but us.
ugh. My darn gut is till feeling icky. I feel like i need to get rid of something making me sick inside. I don't know what it is!
Someone on here was talking about forgiveness. I was thinking how I feel no ill will towards what anyone has done. Thought about forgiveness to me is forgiving the person, not the behavior. The behavior is not mine to forgive. To me that is what another judge owns, not me.
Whoever wrongs me. I feel sad for them, forgive them. What they did, I just have no right to own, to forgive.
My A's adultery, I forgive him as a person, the abuse, the adultery, the lies, the thievery, the actions, his choices, that is between him and hp.
sigh
Well thank you for listening. You guys KNOW I love/need your responses. If this made you think anything I would like to hear it.
Off to find my paint brush. love!! debilyn
-- Edited by lyndebi on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 01:59:57 PM
the flag for me would be * been thru AA and NA * I didnt know you could go thru them , thier a life long program of recovery . no support ? reminds me of the question if you got nothing out of the program what did you put in ?? Easy Deb pay attention to the flags . Louise
Love your new kitty avatar. You are a very wise , intelligent women and so very right on about this new friend. I am sorry that it worked out this way but glad it was addressed early on.
Oh Bettina lady I am not untouchable! Hon I am just fortunate we met this way and it came out before I met him again face to face. Harder to let go of a physical person I think. thank you hon.
Abbyal! OH no!!! I got the first red flag when he said one of the first emails we would talk over a glass of wine.
OH no worries hon. I have NO attraction to him whatsoever. I completely agree with you. That was one thing I would share with him, that my program with Al Anon is lifelong and my recovery is ongoing.
I guess it was neat for me to have it come out of nowhere, and my not being around any men for so so so many years cept my AH, that I immediatly had my program there. that was a run on sentence huh?
geez here I am minding my own business up here with my animals. All of a sudden an A appears. lol
I am ok alone, with out a mate I mean. Unless someone good comes along and changes my mind. BUT this time I am on program! Not like when ex ah came back. I was so ignorant to addiction.
thank you thank you to you both! ((((((Bettina))))))) (((((((louise))))))) gawd I miss the sounds.....(c:<
Oh man, I have heard the "I'm a happy/fun drunk, not a mean drunk" from my AH before. Now, I've never actually been around him when he's drunk, so I can't say either way. But just making that statement just screams "I'm trying to make excuses for myself." And based on the family stories I've heard, my AH is most DEFINITELY a mean drunk...
Glad the red flag started waving before you got in too deep!
Why do some men seem to think that the "needing a mommy" thing is a big draw for women? (Oh, wait, I can answer that -- because it's worked in the past for them to hook codependent types -- having a nice enabling codependent around is sooo much easier than working a program)
I hear ya, I seem to be an absolute magnet for A's. I sure don't go looking for them, but they are drawn to me like the proverbial moths to the flame. Most men out there don't take much notice of me, but if I walk into a room of recovering A's, I can hear the men's jaws drop and they gawk, like I'm some sort of Goddess. Lol. Once upon a time, I used to find it flattering. Now I know better.
__________________
Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could... Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. - Emerson
"... geez here I am minding my own business up here with my animals. All of a sudden an A appears. lol ..."
LOL.
I think it's great that you picked up on the signs before you were 'in too deep' and can now more easily cut him off.
I know you were excited about this new friendship so I'm very sorry for you that it turned out this way.
"been through AA" yep, that would have been a huge clue.. you don't just pass on through and poof you are all better forever! I'm sure he wasn't aware of your vast amount of knowledge and experience with addiction...
One of the thoughts that popped into my mind after I was first and foremost sad for you that this isn't going to work out the way you had probably hoped was "I wonder what attracked him to you and you to him".
Did you meet online? Wasn't there a reunion or something I seem to remember something about high school get together...?
This also made me think of a conversation I had with a friend the other day. I was being somewhat sarcastic (and I use sarcasm as a defence mechanism, but I also love and appreciate sarcasm). Anyway, I said to this friend: "If I ever leave him and ever start dating again, men will run fast away from me cause I won't be able to help it, I'll sit there and ask a million quesions before the flirting even begins and probably come off as a crazy person". (Which, hopefully I will no longer be....if that time ever comes.)
-- Edited by danielle0516 on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 04:23:52 PM
My experience before i met my husband many decades ago was that i was attracted to anyone who even remotely looked as though they need me to help them or fix them. I grew up surrounded by addiction and was the caretaker of all my A's So imagine that now! You could put me in a room of a hundred guys and without a word being spoken i would immediatly be drawn to the only A in the room. Being silly here now....but it's almost as if they put out a scent that draws us to them so we can make it all better for them. When I met my husband I would have sworn he was an A. We partied like there was no tomorrow and somewhere in the back of my mind I think I was trying to be an A too. Then maybe someone would take care of me. So I married the guy, we started a family and wouldn't ya know.... we grew up and became respondsible adults. We actually had the conversation that party time was over it was time to buckle down and make sure our children didn't grow up as we did. I think we are attracted to what we know, what is comfortable for us. The unknown is very scary. You now have the ability while you still may be attracted to someone take a step back and put things into perpective. Thats super duper progress lady! Luv ya
well Betty being in the program, what would be on our mind foremost? Is he/she an A. Me be careful? I wish I had the pic of me online where I dumped a can of paint on my head....
Stephanie, I KNOW, crazy huh? It still blows me away how they say the same things! hey as far as I am concerned, them turning into someone else is mean!
Hannah I believe people who are kind, approachable, somewhat assured do attract an A. But if we are on program, they quickly realize we are not going to hold onto their "rock."
Danielle no I was not really excited at all. But it was nice having a conversation with someone you no? I went to school with him. There is this site called "Classmates.com." I am posted there, pics bio, updates. He found me and sent an email. I had to look up who he was in the year book!
He was a quiet, friendly, clean cut guy.
I knew the second email he was probably A.
LOl you being a crazy person. HEY my daughter met a guy. She just shared this. They clicked, went on a date. He says he and girlfriend are not together. She asks a ton of questions. It is his birthday and he tells her how it went. How his ex came over and made him dinner.
OK. Well then she tells him he has to tell her about their new relationship. She does not want to get into anything inappropriate.
He says ok, I live at her place! OMGOsh. lol this was not the only lie she caught him on.
Found out he has herpes simplex1. She had shared with him if they did get to where they were to be intimate he needed to get checked for std's first. OH BOY. Like it would matter as he could be clean and be with some one else the next day and be sick!
She said what got her was after learning of the lies, her son walked in, he is four. That was that for her. She was NOT putting her boy in any, tiny bit, of danger.
So dear you are right. Questions have to be asked, and we now how to see red flags thanks to Al Anon and each other here at MIP who share!
If we don't ask questions how will we know anyone?
Danielle one thing I do know he is not lieing to me so far. Saddest thing though is he is in denial, and lieing to himself.
Not my problem.
eh no big deal. thank you for making me giggle at ya,debilyn
" ... So imagine that now! You could put me in a room of a hundred guys and without a word being spoken i would immediatly be drawn to the only A in the room..."
hehe, I'm picturing that in my head and it's quite funny. To the A you just 'light up' as the rest of the room fades to black... as he proceeds to release his come hither attraction potion and off you run! haha.
On a more serious note though - I find that SO SO fasinating! What is it about us??!! What do we do or say or how do we act that makes them think we will be good mommies?
So interesting...
I really don't like being a mommy to a grown man... I HATE it.
xeno, yes i remember! I used to be like that. The fixer. Oh I can help, let me help you. Blah, not anymore. People who are needy do not attract me one tiny bit. I am talking A's not like a needy single mom or something.
As soon as I read how he needs someone to support him to care to be able to do it, geez isn't anyone a non A? He needs someone next to him to give him strength. oh brother.
Does that mean that when they are alone they have no back bone of their own? I mean I am very alone, I know what I had to pick my bum up from. NO one did it for me. Yes I had you guys, and a couple close friends. But I did not lean on anyone, well cept maybe Estersue my farm pig I loved and my Basset Tavish.....(c:
thank you for responding. it is interesting to finally get to see what I really have learned and how natural it all just took the reigns.
Sorry this is making you feel funny. A's can do that. It was a weird weekend for me last weekend - spent some of it with sober friends, had a wonderful time over coffee - then we ended saving another friend at the drug store who was just WHACKED drunk. We drove him home. It made me so uncomfortable and so happy I am not there anymore.
I get an email last night how he has been thru AA and NA but didn't get the support. That he needed a loving person to support him.
scary
All these red flags! When I first read,"I will have to tell you about that over a glass of wine." Just that first inkling for me was a red flag.
Yeah, when guys ask me out now and they want to go for a drink - the answer is no. If they want to go for coffee - sure thing. Dating / getting to know each other and alcohol - just doesn't seem like a good mix.
Anyway, I don't believe we go looking for an A. They prey on others who they feel may fill in the spots where they don't have anything but empty space.
Some do, I agree.
As for forgiveness - believe it or not I was struggling with this one. I thought if I forgave someone - especially my A - they were off the hook. They were "right". They won. They did not have to be accountable. You know what convinced me otherwise? Believe it or not ............................ the dictionary.
Now - most do "pardon" - but that is not what I chose to focus on. #4 - to cease to feel resentment against. I can't MAKE someone be accountable for their actions, feel bad for their actions or behaviors, and most apologies are just a bunch of crap and not fully meant anyway. The ones I received were "I know I started this whole thing by .................... BUT. Any apology that has a but in it is forfeit in my book.
So - I CHOSE to cease to feel the resentment. I agree with you. Their behavior is theirs. They may see it, they may not, they may care, they may not. But I chose to forgive for MYSELF.
Here is something I want to leave you with that has been running around in my head for a while. I can't find the source of what I read (I forgot) but it was something like this. Every person needs at least one person in their life who truly believes in them. Or something to that affect.
You know what. I grabbed onto that. No one is a hopeless case. Let's take my exA for example. Train wreck with a lot of potential. Extremely hurtful person I can never be around again. But I believe in him. I will have hope for him to find happiness, belief in himself, and success at whatever he chooses no matter how big or small. I have faith that he can stop hurting others once he finds a way to stop hurting. He doesn't have to ever know about this. But he can have one person that truly believes in him in this world. It doesn't cost me anything. And I can do that for everyone else as well! Especially if I can do it for him - after all the hurt.
That - as I am figuring out as I am typing - is forgiveness for me. I can truly believe in, have hope for, love, and have compassion without getting involved or exposing myself at all. Wow. I can love him from here and that feels REALLY darned good.
I love ah ha moments at the keyboard - especially with you Debilyn!!! .
tlc
__________________
To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.
Oh man. My exAH says that AA isn't for him, too, that he didn't get what he needed. Hehehe - yup! AA will certainly put a damper on the situation if you want to continue to drink! ;)
Good for you, Debilyn, for seeing the red flags. I love your recovery stories. :)
Well we probably ARE good moms, good friends to others. We ooze, I care, I care, let me care for you!
We are good listeners, we are not afraid to say how nice they are or oh no that is not true, you come off as very intelligent.
gads.
giggle
tlc perfect. Yes I get it. and yes i feel that too. The Bible says love is, well one of the things is, it does not keep account of the injury.
Forgiveness is for us. I sure don't want to go thru life feeling bitter and angry. Only hurts me. ya know how ya meet someone who is so crabby, mean, bitter, ya wonder how they can live like that!
I choose to see the birds at the bird feeder, have my one ginger cat follow me everywhere and jump to my chest and hang on, I want to love and feel simple happy things. If I am bitter or angry, just cannot feel that stuff.
Yes and I liked how you said SOME. Not all A's are difficult to be in a relationship with. They are not their disease.
hugs
And if you go chasing Rabbits you know you're goen to fall...
White rabbit, I have to now share, I wrote to him how I felt. After reading my bolony you can imagine. I kept it as my experience, did not point at him at all.
He wrote back a very nice and thoughtful email. Again honest. Said it made him think.
lol recovery stories. Is that what it is? I am thinking if this is recovery, what a ride eh? Buns, ya know, I am so afraid I will live to 106 like my gma Ahart. So I want sooo much to have a strong foundation, be happy, love people, have as good of health as I can.
Just cannot get lost in much uno?
Well I will cont. to write him as long as it is clear it is friends. As long as the honesty of what he chooses to share is true.
The one thing that struck out at me was the "need for a loving person to support him".
Whenever my ABF tried to say some things like that, my therapist would always throw out there that he was making ME responsible for his sobriety. Nope. Not this me.
I think that whatever you want to say to him is fine. You are a beautiful person with much wisdom. You don't say things in any kind of demeaning manner.
I feel kind of icky FOR you. Ugh!
Anyway, I am very impressed with all you are getting done around your house. That kind of thing is therapeutic for me as well. Gives you a chance to let that mind wander while getting things accomplished.
I also fell on my butt....had a total melt down/ break down whatever you want to call it I wished, prayed, begged for someone to "fix" me My husband bless his heart did all he could to just plain keep me alive My friends? I didn't fit into thier equation anymore as I was just plain sick in the head My daughter (bless her) moved home for a couple months and tried tough love on me...well that didn't work it only served to make her resent me and detach ( without love I might add) Could not for the life of me figure out why people couldnt fix me Finally turned to God who lead me here And the message i heard loud and clear was "fix yourself child". Wow fix myself....spent my whole life fixing others and I'd no clue as how to fix myself Thankfully all of you great loving people had a clue....a solution and did for me what no one else could The same can be said for the A. They are the only ones who can fix themselves even better when they have the love and support of the program This program didn't take my problems away it gave me solutions ( healthy ones I might add) to tackle my own problems and get my life back! Hooray
Thank you- your post brings up many issues many of us struggle with.
I like how you've come to a place where you can feel sadness without anger and to totally not accept the issue as yours to own. Intellectually, I understand the concepts, but haven't been able to actually live it... yet.
It's helpful to realize that many of our old, unhealthy patterns are, indeed, choices.
Also, a non-A date story that creeped me out... I was on a second date and he was pushing to be physical. I ended the date early and terminated any future possibilities. The next morning I received a lengthly email from him. He apparently didn't understand good-bye and he revealed he has active genital herpes; he tried to make himself out to be a a great catch worth the low risk... geez!!!! There are all kinds of people out there!!!
You should be so proud of yourself that you know the signs, the language and all the red flags that are coming your way.
We that have had to learn this the hard way and we can never go back to being the person that could be caught up in the "drama" that some people love to create around them so that the focus is always on them.
You are very wise to see this, you are a special person, I love reading what you have to say.
member sometimes I wish my mind would quit wondering! thank you for your words!
Marisie YES I agree, he has not said what he has to give in a relationship. Nor has he shared what he is into. I mean interests. I am so done jumping into things. Well never did with men but did with animals! hugs
thank you xeno. I sure could feel the power in what you shared! love! Oh gads bud! that is exactly what happened to my daughter! he finally revealed he had simplex1!
Yes this thread made me think. I really do not feel anything bad towards A. And ya know bud, part is becuz why bother. A does not "get" it anyway! he has no concept of what he lost or what HIS disease did! he will bring up his stupid pick up he gave to his son that he does not remember doing.
gads, now that did make me mad. lol when it comes to my son or daughter, do not go there.
haha hugs.
tt haha my darn mother bless her heart, always would start humming that violen song at me! haha thank you for bringing out that memory!
Oh dream, I don't know if I am proud. All I know is I got a feeling or maybe it is just natural to wonder now about anyone!
In a way it is sad though. As even if he was not A, I have no desire to have a man in my life. As lonely as I am, just cannot take the bad that comes with the good at this point. And am not ready to hear about the bad supposedly in my life.
. You are a very wise , intelligent women and so very right on about this new friend. I am sorry that it worked out this way but glad it was addressed early on. 