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hi all, my husband and i have been marriage since january. i am 6 months pregnant. alcohol has been an issue all throughout dating as well, and we broke up over his argumentativeness, defensiveness, verbal aggression, all sparked by drinking. then we got back together during a period of him being sober, saying he would never drink again. that lasted a short time. we got married. he started drinking again. he said he would not drink when i was pregnant, since i wouldnt be drinking, but that lasted a week. this last month has been the worst since as far back as i can remember even druing the dating days. we are in couples counseling, but i am noticing that it isnt helping because the counselor hasnt wised up to the extent of his drinking, and thinks the speaker listener technique can help us. not. anyway, i feel like we are throwing hard-earned $ away by going to couples counseling when he is drinking like a fish. the fights are not normal fights, they are totally sparked by his irritability when he is trying to not drink for a day. then as soon as we fight, he leaves and buys a 6 pack of high alcohol content beer and drinks it before the night is over. she taught us to do time-outs, but during our time-outs he just gets wasted while i try to hold it together in another room. i love him, but i am horrified he is spiraling like this during my pregnancy. i am reading toby rice drews right now, and am starting to "butt out" of his drinking, and just let him do his thing. problem is that i am supposed to act like we are on equal ground during couples counseling? that's a joke and a lie. no one calls him out for his drinking, and his family never calls him out either. i feel trapped and scared stiff as to what is going to happen after the baby is born.
Welcome to the group, I'm new here too so I don't have tons to offer.
I can't imagine how you feel right now, being pregnant and having to deal with this at the same time.
Its frustrating to know that you're doing things to help yourself, things to try to improve your relationship & he does nothing. I kinda have that going on now too.
I know others will chime in, I just can't imagine how you feel being in this situation!
I'm anxious to see what others say. I really wish I had some wisdom to tell you right now.
I would have a very hard time not calling him out at counseling! but thats me...
I'm new here as well, and so far, I have gotten so much from others, that I'm not alone, and I'm not going crazy.
I would call him out in counselling. My AH and I were in marriage counselling a couple of yrs ago, and he tried to make it sound like he didn't drink that much. I didn't agree and told her how much he would have. She said to him, that he should try to at least cut it down to a 12 pk a week instead of the 18-24 a day. She said that if he wasn't willing to do that, then there's no point in working on the marriage. That was the last time we saw her. AH refused to go back, saying that she was a wack job and man hater.. Whatever.
Flash forward til last month. He is in counselling himself with an addiction counsellor, the first woman he saw, didn't know how much he would drink. He lied to her, and would come home and tell me that she didn't feel that he had a problem. I knew he was lying. Then he starting talking to another counsellor and admitted that he had lied to the first woman. I went in the one time with him, and made sure she knew exactly how much he drinks.
Being pregnant and dealing with this is not easy. I know this. My AH was drinking then, but I guess I was still in denial. About a month after my first son was born, he went out.. oh yeah, it was Valentines Day. He said he was going out for a couple hours, but then would be home and we would spend the rest of the day together. He didn't come home until 5am the next morning.. he was at his buddies place drinking all night.
It's stressful, yes... but you do need to take care of yourself, and your baby. It's not good for you to deal with this.
I can't tell you what you should do, honestly I can't. I should have done alot then but didn't. That happened so long ago, and I still put up with it yrs after. We have 3 kids, and I don't want to take them away, but I also know what kind of stuff the are subjected to, the stress in the house, the tension.. no good for anyone.
Good luck in your journey, and I hope we get the answers we seek.
I have a feeling we have a great support system on here.
I was pregnant when my husband relapsed, so I've been where you are. The uncertainty of it is terrible. It helped a lot for me to keep in mind that alcoholism is a disease. Although my AH was sincere when he apologized for his actions and said he wouldn't drink anymore, he has a disease and couldn't keep his promise. It wasn't personal - it wasn't that he was lying. He simply was not capable of the follow through. That had nothing to do with me or how much he loved me or didn't, and everything to do with his own issues.
Have you sought out any Alanon meetings for yourself? These meetings have been very important in my recovery. All that is required for membership is that you are bothered by the use of alcohol in a relative or friend ... so whether the person consuming the alcohol has decided that he or she is an alcoholic or not doesn't matter. Alanon teaches us to put the focus back on ourselves, concentrate on what WE want and WE think, and take our personal power and responsibility for our choices and happiness back. I encourage you to find meetings in your area. This is something you can do for yourself whether another person continues to drink or stops. We have a saying in Alanon that we did not cause another person's alcoholism, we cannot control another person's alcoholism, and we cannot cure another person's alcoholism. Screaming and yelling, threats, crying, talking rationally, checking for bottles, and anything else we try is pointless and will not work. We learn that, rather than attempt to control something we simply cannot control (whether someone else drinks or not), we can control our own attitudes and behaviors.
Hope you are feeling well, and hope to see you around here often! Good to "meet" you!
-- Edited by White Rabbit on Monday 13th of December 2010 09:02:59 PM
I don't see how couples counselling can be productive when a major issue -- how his drinking is affecting you -- is going unaddressed. For me, I'd speak up, but I'd phrase it as MY concern i.e. "I have a problem with how much he drinks" or even "I'm going to start attending Al-Anon meetings".
If you're reading Toby Rice Drews, you're already learning some great skills for how to deal with alcoholism. What Al-Anon will give you is more tools for living with alcoholism, and a wonderful network of supportive people who know exactly what you're going through. That was one of the best aspects for me, that I no longer felt so alone in being in a relationship with an A.
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Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could... Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. - Emerson
I am glad you found us. Shows you want to make some changes in your life for the better.
It is a huge responsibility to be having a baby, as you know. A's are very sick people. As they continue to drink, they get worse and worse.
After you have your baby your body will go through so many changes. Plus you will have a baby to care for. The A will more than likely get worse. Your attention will be on your child, not him.
Its not your fault, you are young and did not know. I was in the same place as you. I had NO idea about him being an addict, and what it all meant.
You have a big chance here at a better life, by gathering knowledge. If I were you I would be learning to be very independant. Protect me and the baby in every way, financially, mentally, physically. We cannot depent on an A.
The book,"Getting Them Sober," is a good one to start with.I hope you keep coming back here. Glad you are reading it.
Do you have family you can depend on?
The primary problem is him being an addict. Counseling is a waste of time and money. Its like making a beautiful table top but the legs are broken. You can carve it as beautiful as you want, but with out legs it is nothing.
When an addict is using, they are insane. There is no talking to them or anything.
We work on ourself, decide how we want our lives to be.
Hi there.... glad you found your way here.... In my experience, couples counselling while an alcoholic is active is an exercise in futility, and a complete waste of time and money.... Even if the counsellor is trained in addictions counselling, it still doesn't typically bear much fruit You aren't crazy, you are married to an alcoholic (which, in effect, is making you crazy). Choose recovery for you, and the right answers (for you) will become more clear....
Take care Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I was pregnant when I found out my husband was drinking again too, so I can imagine a little of what you might be feeling. It was terrifying to me.
We went to several couples counselors. They seemed like good people but none of them understood how much of a problem the drinking was. He didn't show up drunk to counseling sessions, so they didn't see it first-hand. I now think that most people who haven't experienced addiction from up close won't understand even if they do see it first-hand. So our counselors were worse than useless -- they'd suggest he cut down on the drinking to placate me, and he'd agree as if it were no big deal, and the counselors thought it was Problem Solved. Of course the drinking just got more secretive, not less.
Finally we got to a counselor who said she wouldn't treat anyone who had a drinking issue unless they were also faithfully attending AA or another program. At that point things were imploding, so we didn't get very far with that counselor.
What I learned is that alcoholism is a progressive disease -- unless the person goes into recovery, it gets worse, not better. And that about 70% of those who try recovery don't stick with it. (That's not to mention the people who don't ever start recovery.) I wish someone had told me those things early on, which is why I'm passing them on to you.
What you need is a lots of support. Do try to get to face-to-face meetings (try several because they're all different). There's nothing like local support. And there are meetings on here. And keep coming back and learning all you can. You shouldn't have to deal with this alone, and there are lots of wise folks here who have been in similar shoes. Hugs to you.
I tried the couples councelling in my two marraiges, neither worked, my first husband was violent and only went with me because I had left him and in his effort to get me back said he would try it, we went about 6 times and each time I said to him that HE had to admit to the counsellor he beat me, but he never did, so on the 7th time I brought it up, he went into total denial, put on all the faces, seemed horrifed I could falsely accuse him of beating me, then got up and hit me right in front of the counsellor, we were asked to leave and never return.
Now, although it was an awful experience it helped me to follow through on my own journey in that it showed me he had no intentions of ever changing, getting help, or stopping, so it allowed me to be clear about this and it probably was better it came to a head quicker, and i left him soon after, knowing i was saving myself.
My second husband, came with me too, for drinking, skirted around everything, avoided, deflected, etc etc, and again showed me he wasnt willing to change or grow with me.
So nothing is ever wasted, at least you will get an over view, of where he is at, do bring it up in the counselling and use it to gauge his reaction, if like my husband he goes into denial, you have a better picture then of his attitude towards yours marraige and your future, use it to "educate" yourself, then you can at least strike it off your list, and say you gave him that chance.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your little baby, god bless you both.
I tried couples counseling with my now ex-husband. He was a rage-aholic, not a substance abuser, however, that didn't matter, the therapy didn't work. Alanon works for me, and I use it for me. I have learned that I didn't cause the drinking, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. I have learned that I need to QTIP=quit taking it personally. I have learned that I have to say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. I am working on this. I am learning to detach with love. I know that nothing changes if nothing changes. I have a sickness too, and that is my obsession with others, which helps sheild me from my own pain. I grew up in abuse and codependency issues are running rampent in me. I am choosing to do the steps here in alanon with my sponsor. You can use alanon for you as well, the tools and suggestions, the slogans and steps, all help you work things out to change for the better. Books I love: Courage to Change, As we understood..., The language of letting go, Getting them Sober, The New Codependency... Take care of yoU!
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You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection. -Buddha
The past has flown away. The coming month and year do not exsist. Ours only is the present's tiny point. -Mahmud Shabistanri
thank you everybody for your support and feedback. last night we went to counseling again, and i did bring it up and the counselor tried to get him to commit to seeing an addictions counselor. he shut down, deflected, and looked totally overwhlemed. when we left, the first thing he said outside was, "well that was a waste of time." then he proceeded to go off the whole ride home how the counselor and i just try to make him seem lihe the "xxxx'd up one" and just attack him. and how its all pointless. he does admit an alcohol issue in one breath, but in the next says out of all the people he knows who drink, he drinks the least. i didnt even respond to that it was so ridiculous. its like he thinks he has a very minor problem but it doesnt rise to the level of needing help. he says i am totally overblowing it, and that he has not lost his job or missed work, so he is fine. he won't go to aa due to not agreeing with the hp concept. today, after much deliberation, i wrote him the following email:
"when we got back together you said you were going on the wagon and then essentially it was communicated to me that it didnt work out due to me continuing to drink around you. you said you wouldnt drink during the pregnancy but you reneged on that, which has caused not only disappointment for me, but alarm bells that maybe you can't stop even if you try. since starting to drink again a few months ago, the drinking is increasing. the nights we have fought and you have gotten drunk have really caused me a lot of worry. its terrifying to be pregnant and have your husband crack six 8% beers in a row in the other room before stumbling off to bed. i realize you don't understand why it's terrifying, but believe me, it is. i want to feel like we are in this together, that i can depend/rely on you as a strong partner. it's not very sensitive towards me and doesnt feel good for me to be trying to stay away from all alcohol myself when you are drunk at home (sunday night).
i would be happy if you would commit to not drinking at all until the baby is at least one month old. I will do the same. Then we are in this together, and can support each other. If doing this means not going to the relatives for christmas at all and not going to a new years party, that is totally fine with me. In fact, it might be healthier that way for us right now anyhow. Right now, we should be doing everything we can to lay the right foundation in our marriage and in our lives for a relaxed rest of the pregnancy, a smoother relationship with each other, and to set the stage for a happy house when the baby comes. How could abstaining for 5 months with each other's support be a bad thing? If you or I can't do it, then we both have our answer as to whether we (me included) are alcoholics. The baby deserves that we try to be the best people we can be right now."
i know that asking him to stop totally goes against my "getting them sober" book and alanon, so i have mixed feelings about it. but i just felt i needed to make this explicit request. if he can't or won't do it, then he won't really be able to make his argument that nothing is wrong. in any case, the more i read about detachment and living with an A, the more i know i couldnt pull it off long term, and especially not with kids in the house. i would have to leave. what do you think about this email? was that the wrong move?
-- Edited by tryingtostaysane on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 03:49:50 PM
-- Edited by canadianguy on Tuesday 25th of January 2011 01:52:34 AM
my son says stuff like that, he ONLY drinks seven nights a week, when it could be seven days too, he is not out robbing old ladies,all his friends are on drugs, at least he is only drinking, he has a job, his friends are unemployed, he has a nice car,nice girlfriend so whats my problem???????? I am trying to ruin his fun/life etc.
At least you know now that he isnt as committed as you are, and you can now rule couples counselling out, but it cant be held against you at a later date as you can refer back to it if ever needed and say that right from the start you were willing and trying to change etc but he wasnt.
As for the email, I really dont think there is a right or wrong in any of this, and I am no expert, but I do believe as human beings we have a right to say something we feel out loud, something that we feel is needed to be said, and as a mum to be you have a right to try to prepare your nest and make sure it is safe, secure and stable, who would want a drunk around when your preparing to give birth, giving birth, or in the first few weeks of raising a baby?
you have a right to say out loud what you expect from the father of your child, just as he has a right to speak to you about his expectations, at least you are making a start on this and trying to find a way forward, God bless you and I will pray for you.
