The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
In my esh there is no such thing. People decided to stop using for so many reasons. It does not have to be they have a bottom.
Mine lives his bottom.
If they are miserable, good. Sounds bad, but we have to not baby them! NO encouragement, love or anything we do is going to help them. We have to let it be their own inventory, their own disease. They have to pick themselves up.
We might say well I heard AA is good. Or I have known people to get help from going to AA. Leave it at that. They can always find energy to get drugs, believe me they can get allll the help they need to get to a meeting and or a doctor.
It is all done from LOVE. We have to love them enough to do the right thing, which actually hurts us! It is true, that which we do for ourself means so much more. We make our own commitment and get it under our own power.
When we "help" them we hurt them. We take away their chance to find their own recovery!
Yes, Deb I must agree!!!! I have lived that experience as well. unfortunately I have also heard thaat when some reach rock bottom they buy a drill and start excavating down to the next layer
Please take care of you, get to meetings, pray and live one day at a time
NO one knows when another has hit rock bottom only the alcoholic knows when they have arrived . I love the quote from our literature , that says *instead of waiting for someone to hit bottom start looking for your top .* much more productive . Louise
I don't personally think there is a rock bottom. Depression certainly isn't a bottom. People go through depression for lots of different reasons. They say that sometimes a person has to lose EVERYTHING, what is that everything? Who knows? They can lose their family, their friends, financial security...etc.....that doesn't always mean that's their rock bottom. For some, rock bottom is death. Look at the bums on the street, you would think that would be their rock bottom....they lost everything. Sometimes they just don't feel the power to want to stop their addiction.
I like what Hotrod said....lol "some reach rock bottom they buy a drill and start excavating down to the next layer"
I am not pretending to know whether or not she has hit bottom. She is being more honest about what is going on. She seems beaten down and the last thing I would want to do would be to make her more comfortable because that would just hinder progress. But I do want to have a wise words.
As they teach us here in Alanon.......worry about YOU....if she's sad and miserable, that's her deal, she'll either work on it or she won't, there's not much you can do for her. If you're her close friend and are around her all the time, you can just let her know that you support recovery, other than that, it's up to her. All the quotes and sayings won't do anything, if they are sick, they don't hear it. As someone told me recently, abnormal thinking is normal for an addict.
I am all for taking care of myself first. But that doesn't mean I can't care about someone else, too. Care ABOUT!!!. It is not my job to TAKE CARE OF anyone but myself and, to a degree, my grandson. My kids are all grown and so it is not my job to take care of them, either.
So, beleive me, I know not to make myself sick and think it is my duty to come up with some 'magical' words to 'fix' her. But that doesn't mean I can't give her some kind and inspiring words.
" *instead of waiting for someone to hit bottom start looking for your top .* much more productive . "
I love that saying, very encouraging. :)
I agree...I'm not sure there is a 'rock bottom' for everyone. I think having the strength and courage and humility to commit to recovery happens for different reasons.
I won't go into detail as this is not the place, but I want to share this: A while back I shared my AH's story on the AA message boards asking for their opinions. Many of them ended up sharing that their 'bottom' or the 'event' that made them want to recover more than anything else, was their spouse kicking them out of the house. I've heard that a few times now. But, there are those who get kicked out and also choose to be bums on the street so they can drink in peace.
Some 'hit bottom', are in recovery for 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, then go find themselves a lower bottom than before, repeatedly.
Hey Screaming Barbie. hmm, I'm afraid I'm confused. You said your friend has hit bottom....yet she has been in recovery for over a year?
I'm not an expert, but I was of the belief that is usually goes like this: First, the person hits their metaphorical rock bottom and that is the impetus they needed to want to get the help they need and to want recovery more than anything else....
DIL??
Maybe something like: "You won't feel like this forever, it will pass." or, "this too shall pass?" Sorry, I know that's not the most creative....
I wish I believed there was a rock bottom. Or maybe there is, it's just not the rock bottom I would expect because I don't live in someone else's shoes. I don't know.
Wise words? I don't know about WISE, because I have had to stop trying to give A's wise advice...none of them wanted my advice and none of them took it, either! ;)
I find "progress, not perfection" encouraging. Reminds me that I don't have to do recovery perfectly in order to be successful at it. Recovery is a journey, not a destination.
Danielle, I put "in recovery" in quotes because I don't think she was really in recovery.
My son has checked up on her (I tell him he shouldn't do that but I can't control him any more than I could control her) and she doesn't go to meetings when she said she does.
And many people go to meetings just as a way of going through the motions, without taking things to heart. That is what I think the last year has been for her. I suspect, I hope, she might finally be ready to take things seriously.
Hi Screaming... I didn't notice those quotes around "in recovery"
My AH would probably say he is "in recovery". He does all the right things. He has an addictions councillor, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, a social worker, another therapist, he is in a abstinence program (meaning, where the addicts have all admitted they can't control it and need to stop forever) through the Addictions Foundations of Manitoba where we live, and he also goes to AA everyday, and has a sponsor. He is on step 1 and admits, or at least says the words, that he is powerless over alcohol and that his life has become unmanageable. He wants to stop, or, at least he says he does... I just don't know what to believe anymore!
Anyway, So, he is a perfect example of someone who is going through the motions but not committing himself to the simplicity of the program. He keeps trying to fight it. (well, that's how I see it as he always chooses to take that first drink).
My hubs was even suicidal and ended up in a psych ward for 2.5 weeks. This is what prompted him (along with a handful of really embarrassing situations) to seek all this help...and it was also offered to him as part of his outpatient treatment therapy.
I wish I knew the magical words to say. i have tried a million different things to say, ways to encourage.
I know, in my situation, tough love and setting boundaries, and trying my hardest to consistently enforce them...is what is working for me.
For example, when my AH has been drinking, he sleeps downstairs. He will try to provoke me ad naseaum that he has not been drinking, he will follow me around, start getting mean, start threatening me that he'll leave the house, ect... but I stick to my rule - being that I think you are drunk, I don't like you this way, so please sleep downstairs. Finally, usually after 1-3 hours of pestering me and attempting to get a rise out of me, of following me around and progressively becoming more and more desperate and harsh and mean, he will give up and go sleep downstairs.
This happened last night, I heard him crying. Good, I hope he feels like crap. Maybe eventually he'll feel so crappy that he will stop drinking to avoid feeling that crappy ever again.
This is not easy on me, not one bit! In fact, it's horribly difficult for me to not run to him and throw my arms around him and comfort him.
I want to sleep with him.
I want to cuddle up next to him at night.
I don't want to be alone in our bed.
I don't want to feel guilty about my decision.
But, despite how badly I want these things, I always try not to give in. I cried for an hour before falling asleep last night cause it was so hard. Especially having to hear my husband bawling downstairs.
But, it is getting easier...and it's teaching my AH that I refuse to put up with his behaviour. period.
It's also teaching me to respect myself more, teaching me that I shouldn't have to put up with this crap - that I"m better than that! And, that it's not my fault, I didn't cause it, he made the chose to take that first drink! So, I should never feel guilty about it.
Tough love is hardest on me...not him. That's what makes it so hard.
I wish you the best of luck in your situation, please keep coming back. These boards have truly been a lifesaver for me. I honestly think I would be completely insane now without them!
-- Edited by danielle0516 on Saturday 11th of December 2010 02:20:21 PM
Oh, one more thing to add... you know, since my above post wasn't long enough! ;)
I was so resistant to Alanon at first. I did not want to be 'one of those' people! Not one bit... I came here for a week, then didn't come back for a year. I didn't want to admit that my husband was an A and that I was also becoming obsessed with him and very sick myself.
But, I eventually came back, cause, sure enough...things only got worse and no matter how hard I tried, how much I threatened, how much research on the dangers of alcoholism I threw in his face, how much I cried, begged, got mad, pleaded ect... None of it did any good.
Maybe try encouraging your friend to seek help. Pick up some literature and give it to her. She'll read it.
No one knows what another bottom is If you try to project anothers bottom you will drive yourself crazy because you are basing it on what you think your bottom is. For my son I thought his bottom was OD'ing with possible brain damage..nope Going to jail time after time...nope He is a year sober now but only because he has been on a jail/rehab unit. He now goes out each day and looks for work and so far he's doing great. But recovery holds no promises For some bottom is death and that is my worst nightmare I sure knew when I hit my bottom and couldn't wait to burst through the doors of alanon I wish you the best Blessings
