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My AH has been going to AA every day except one day for 11 days since he publicly vomited his problem and ruined Thanksgiving dinner. I know about the AA steps, but not much about the differences in meetings themselves, and our family therapist suggested he go to one that does the steps or the Big Book. I saw her today to work on my issues, which she thinks (and I agree) will ultimately help him too, and she mentioned that she didn't think he was quite ready to admit he was the "A" word, although he has said he to me he was an alcoholic. But come to think of it, he has said the meetings help a lot because he doesn't want to be where the others have been, ie lose their jobs and families, etc, but he hasn't said he is powerless or used any of the other language of the steps. His dr also recommended seeing a dr for anti-craving meds. How long can he stay off the drinking by sheer will power? In other words if he's not really working the program can this be a real recovery? Or should I not even be asking these questions- is it irrelevant? I have decided that if he does not recover I do not want him or alcoholism in my life so in a way it does matter. I will recover regardless but I won't have that as part of my life any more. Did that make any sense?
Most AA meetings work from the Big Book and the steps. Its not AA if there are no steps.
To all your questions which are understandable there are no set answers. Every Alcoholic is different. Did your therapist recommend to you any face to face Alanon meetings, which would be very helpful for you. I can understand you wanting to have nothing to do with Alcohol, it is a difficult path, one of no guarantee that the drinking will not continue.
I do hope that you do go to a face to face Alanon meeting, give it some time before you make any hardcore decisions. Listen, read, share with others who have or are going thru the same experience.
Keep coming back to the boards, there is a lot of experience and strength here.
If he's going to meetings, he's not going on sheer will power, but on the power of the meeting.
Nevertheless, 11 days is early days, and remember that only 20-30% of those who go to meetings stick with it and recover. (Fewer for those who don't go to meetings.)
So it's useful to know that nothing's guaranteed and that, above all, we can't put our own recoveries on hold waiting for theirs.
The "good" thing is that whether he's dedicated to recovery or not will be apparent from his actions.
The family therapist may have her opinions about whether he's ready or not, but the proof is in the pudding. I'm a little unconvinced about the worth of anti-drinking meds -- as people said on these boards recently, they're no good unless the person is determined to recover.
It's nervewracking not knowing whether he's going to stick with recovery or not, I know. This is the time to practice your recovery by turning your attention to yourself and working on your own life. Easier said than done, absolutely. But his course will be readily apparent before long. Whichever way it goes, your own recovery is the most important thing you can do.
I agree with the others, you need to focus on yourself - but let me answer your question from my experience just so it is addressed.
There are different types of AA meetings. Some are speaker meetings, some are book studies, some are step studies, newcomer meetings and so forth.
Personally, I like the book and step studies. They are REALLY about rolling up your sleeves and doing the work. The other meetings are a great place for fellowship and for doing your 12th step with newcomers - or being a newcomer and getting some answers and finding a sponsor who then takes you to the step/book studies.
Now, that said.... My experience has taught me, very painfully, that I need to focus on my recovery and stay out of others 100%. No expectations - he may get it, he may not - quickly, slowly - doesn't matter. It is all his to own. And you have YOURS to own as well.
And I 150% agree with the results are in their actions. People can scream AA rhetoric from their pulpit of superiority, know every word of the Big Book, beat everyone else over the head with it, and not live an ounce of it in their own lives. I have seen it and been measured with that stick. This encourages me to stay in my own camp, live my own recovery, and not judge or push my recovery on anyone else. Attraction not promotion . . . all the way. In fact, I often hope that I show more recovery in my actions than my words - as I am a pretty bad communicator.
Sobriety is a portion of recovery, let's say a prerequiste. Just because an A is sober does not mean they are "recovered". My experience is that drinking is just a symptom of the underlying problem. Take away the booze and you have a miserable person who can't deal with life because you just took away their coping mechanism. The program of AA is about changing how we live our lives, becoming comfortable in our own skins, and accepting life on life's terms. We find peace, we become happy, joyous and free.
Early recovery is tough on each of us. You will each have your own issues to deal with, no need to make it more complicated by worrying about the other person's recovery or lack thereof. For me in early recovery, things got harder and crazier before they got better. But they DID get better . . . WAY better.
Tricia
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To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.
For me and from my experiences also Mattie is right on. Gotta tell you that this is a scary post again for me because I remember my intense focus on my alcoholic wife which got me the exact opposite of what I wanted...She relapsed and went back out and drank more. There is a passage in the ODAAT daily reader (if you don't have one do yourself a favor and get one) that says "I talk about wanting to do anything to help my suffering alcoholic...except get off of her back." That was me and why I came to Al-Anon and was one of the things I wanted to learn soon. It was me that caused my alcoholic to leave AA. I told her she wasn't an alcoholic (because I didn't know what one was, because I didn't want her around "those" people, because I was fearful and jealous "they" would fix her and not me and because I was loosing my drinking partner.
Get away from his recovery. The finest tool that HP uses to get an alcoholic sober and keep them that way is another alcoholic. What Mattie says about opinions reminds me that they, opinions, are worthless if the person who entertains them has no awareness or experience about the subject. And Glad lee?...I will always use her ESH to return to where I am supposed to be rather than where I want to be.
In Al-anon they try to teach us to worry about ourselves. I find this very hard, as I worry about everyone else and what they are doing. It's in my nature, it's in my sign, it's just me. There are days I can put those thoughts aside and think of me, but I don't like to be that selfish ;)
One thing I will tell you that I've learned from living with an addict for 21 years, is that they are the best liars you will ever meet. The best salesmen too, they can sell themselves off as doing the right thing and convince anyone of what they believe to be true. I would think to myself, is he really going to meetings or he is just leaving and sitting in the car for an hour and a half? Who knows, we aren't supposed to care, but all we want is what's best for them, so we find ourselves wondering if they are sincere, because denial runs so strong with A's. Like they say, "It is a cunning, baffling, and powerful disease that takes over the mind, body, and spirit of the alcoholic" and we see it, but they do not.
Keep venting...it's what definately helps me get through the hard parts.
The control part. I'm not sure I get this part. Because what I want to control is whether or not I have alcoholism in my life. I've had it before with my mom, who gave it up 20 years ago. Had it with my brother who gave it up when it died with him 6 years ago. Now I've decided I'm done with it. So with my H, sounds terrible as a W, but I don't care if he gives it up or not, well I do care on some level bc I love him still on some level, but whether he does or not, it's not going to be in my life. So if he gives it up, he can stay, if he doesn't he has to go. Is that not doing the first step?
I kinda feel like what he does is his business, just hit the breathalyzer at the door, and if you fail, pack your bags. Ouch. That sounds so cold and mean. Maybe I'm still so angry that I'm looking for him to fail? or maybe I'm afraid he will so it's easier to wish he will and get the hurt over with. Maybe THATs the part i'm trying to control.
I do hear your pain This terrible disease has taken a horrible toll on your family and your life
I am so sorry. You deserve to recover. You deserve to know the peace, and serenity that this program can give. Please know you are not alone and that alanon tools will work to restore your life to where you want it to be.
Living one day at a time, working the steps, focusing on yourself, meetings all will accomplish this for you and you will find the peace you deserve.
When you said "if you fail, pack your bags" that hits home with me because its what I finally did, I prayed that my saying that and following through would mean he would choose the right thing to do. Well he did choose the right thing....in his mind he truly believes he's doing the right thing...he left so he can drink. Sickening! I remember telling myself a couple weeks ago to be prepared, that if I really do that I need to accept that he'll make the choice I don't want him to make and then i'll be devestated....Well, I've been devestated....but I have to find peace in that I'm not dealing with the drama on a daily basis, never knowing if it's going to be a good day or a bad day.....
(((hugs))))j Shanda... I'm sorry he chose what he chose.... but I'm glad for you that you'll have some peace. Thank you for reaching out to me still as you are going through all that you are.
I went through years of begging pleading, cajoling, shouting, screaming, wondering, blaming (blaming me and the AH and A son (wondering was it my fault, then wondering was it their fault) then 7 monts ago I had enough, I just walked out, on both of them, my husband of 23 years I had had enough of, got to a point where it didnt matter any more, if it was him or me, all I knew was I couldnt live with the hurt, pain, confusion, how the nights of drinking would leave me, the anxiety, the stomach churning, the getting round me, the manipulation, the lies, and so on.
I walked out on my son, of 23 too, left him here with dad, so they could both drink happily ever after, couldnt take another moment of being kept up all night, the loud music, his friends over, getting up each day to a kitchen full of empty beer cans, just couldnt do it anymore.
I think we all reach a place where we just give up, dont care, now my husband has stopped drinking, to get me back, in some ways I wonder (and perhaps someone with more experience on here could help me with this) was he really that dependant on alcohol if he could just give it up so easily to get me back?????????????????? he doesnt seem this time to be having any cravings etc etc, and yet any other time when I was living with him and demanded he stopped he would harrass me most days about cravings and how he couldnt live without a drink, be so moody and miserable that I always gave in and he drank again but this time round now he knows he lost me he seems to have magically lost the cravings etc and is coping while off it?????????????????????????????
I am learning on here now to start looking after me, to try to let it all go, to find peace, if nothing else I now am back in my family home with a bit of peace and quiet at my age, no dramas or chaos, no hassle, just how I have always wanted it, but what a price to have to pay, losing my son, as he is still so angry with me, but I will stand by what I have done and I wont have him back in my home, its nice knowing that I will never again live with a drinker, that my life will now take the course I choose, if i do reconcile with my husband, the day he picks up one more drink, will be the day our relationship ends for good, at least I now know what I dont want, and thats to never live with alcohol or a drinker again,
Pammy, I too am wondering if my husbands recovery is real, as i cant get it out of my head how he can manage now without a drink, when for the 23 years I was with him he couldnt, well, he kept telling me he couldnt, and would always hanger me to give in and let him drink, he always always said he couldnt cope, couldnt get over the cravings, couldnt go though life without a drink, now he seems able to because we are not living together and he is trying to get me back????????????????
he readily admits that if I had left him at any time in the marraige he would have stopped drinking to get me back, so is he really dependant or alcoholic??? or was he just appeasing me? who knows we will have to wait and see, but one thing is for sure, although he is off drink 7 months now, I am not fooled for a moment, as this is not new to me, he has often been off it for a year, then went back on it, so for now, I am not fooled by him being off it and wont reconcile till more time passes, as if I did take him back full time and he ever even suggested having a drink he is out and out for good,
I was raised by alcholic parents, all my siblings are addicted to drugs/alcohol, my son is definitely now compeletely dependant on it, my first husband was addicted to violence, second partner to gambling, my second husband alcohol, I have had enough of it in my life, so if nothing else I quit being around this sickness and the chaos and confusion and pain it brings, from now on this is about me, and peace,
Alcohol abuse: abusers find the volition to stop when the reasons for the abuse stop (graduating from college, getting away from certain situations) or when the consequences of the abuse make them realize they need to change
Alcoholics: alcoholics need to practice abstinence because they have a genetically based reaction to alcohol that makes them lose control and cause havoc in their lives. Abusers dont have that reaction, so they can drink normally if they choose to do so.
Everyone should practice sobriety which is not the same as abstinence. Sobriety is making important decisions based on reason and consideration
-- Edited by sdisnie on Tuesday 7th of December 2010 08:50:04 AM
Dear pamommy, when I go off into the future to determine an outcome if and when x,y or z, happens... without allowing a Power greater than myself to work through me.... my ego is in charge again. I'm not letting my HP have control, I'm not turning anything over. Step one is about surrendering. While none of us want to surrender to that at first, my experience is, the Power that does take over our lives is real, miracle-working power.
Step three is about turning my will and my life over to the care of my Higher power... to me, that means I am not going to dictate to God what it's going to be. I am going to relax and take it easy. I'm going to stay in the day. I'm going to practice willingness. I'm going to work the steps and I'm going to go to meetings... I'm going to listen and let my HP direct the show.
When I bring my willingness, my HP can do wonderful things. I just have to suit up, show up, and leave all the outcomes to God. You may find that your marriage will end, like mine did. But... today is not that day. (((hugs)))
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
Thanks shandra, I can see bits of him in both of those though, he would tell me he cant cope without alcohol, and needed to drink whether something was going on in our lives or not, when we would try to reach a compromise meaning, I would have preferred if he NEVER drank again, and accepted that he simply was not the kind who could have one drink as one drink led to 15 and then passing out or doing something stupid,
he would tell me that he couldnt face a week without drink in it, so would get me to agree to him drinking just on a Saturday say, of course that turned into Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and he would say he would just have a bottle of wine, but would then hide drinks from me and steal other peoples and get off his head anyway, so nothing worked,
but what always puzzled me was the fact that he was adamant that he had to drink to cope with life, even when life was normal or going okay, yet he never drank during the day, and got through the whole week at work without having a drink and his job was very stressful (still is) and when we played out this act of his that if he could just have that one nights drinking, he would cope, I always wondered if life was so hard to cope with how did he manage to get through a whole week of life???
am still puzzled, by all of this and its what I need to work out, before I can reconcile with him
I wouldn't expect much after 11 days to be honest. For me here in alanon it took me 10 months to admit I was powerless ( hardheaded over here) but I worked the program all the same. I came in here read the steps thought they sounded very reasonable and figured I could do the twelve steps in 12 days, maybe 12 weeks at the longest. Boy was I ever wrong. But in attending meetings, sharing and applying the tools I was still growing in the program no matter what step I was on. I am here 2 yrs now and just starting my 4th step....but my life has improved 100%. I do not gauge my program against anyone elses. This program is work sometimes hard work. I had to hear and evenutally accept things I didn't want to hear or accept, but it was vital to my recovery I had to let go of past behaviors that I didn't want to because they were what I knew and was comfortable with and put new behaviors that were foreign to me that i didn't want to because it was out of my comfort zone, but I had to because it was vital for my recovery As hard as it is for me sometimes it gives me compassion for the A that also has to do all these things while thier brain is screaming for them to take a drink or a drug. My hat goes off to all A's that find and work recovery. Give hubby time to work his program and you work yours. Remember to keep the focus on you...every minute you spend thinking or worrying about his recovery is a minute you start losing yourself back into his disease and deter you from your program. Blessings
