The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Three posts in a few days now. Now the smoking issue comes up again. I recently took back the finances. All the credit is in my name as are the bills. He doesn't have a bank account and deposits his work cheques into mine so he does not have a week hold. I can deposit and withdraw lots at a time.
I made this change because things were getting out of hand. I had four things that would have bounced out of my account if the bank didn't give me a break. Not okay. My visa is maxed and my chequing account has just enough to pay the bills coming out of it and to pay for food till the next cheque.
My vehicle is not registered and I cannot drive it as the A provided me with several hundred dollars in fines from photo tickets and I did not find out until I went to register it. I did not have the funds available as we just went on vacation. The bills were all up to date however. While on vacation he runs up a seven hundred dollar cell phone bill in roaming. I had the idea to buy a map instead of using google maps, but that didn't work for him.
I can get us back to a positive situation by February as Christmas is coming so I need to account for that.
I came up with the idea of having him get a bank account and setting aside a reasonable amount of money for each of us to have so we don't have to answer to the other for what we spend. Up until a week ago he had my pin # for my bank account. When he was not interested in setting up the account and discuss the amounts I changed my pin.
He still had a visa on my account. He threw it back at me though since I took control back of the finances. I have actually always had control of the finances, the managing of them, but he has had my pin and therefore willl just take my card and spend what he wants, leaving me short for the bills.
Now we go through the money this morning and there is very little until pay day. He wants me to take the 200 left on my visa and max it completely so it goes over limit when the interest comes off so we can have access to all of the funds now etc.
This instant gratification thinking with no limits drives me crazy. Of course he wants out of the minimal money we have for the week to have half of it for cigarettes and gas in case he needs to go somewhere. His main AA meeting is an hour away and will take extra gas. He can get a ride to that to minimize the gas intake but doesn't want to.
I do not want to hand over half our money left for cigarettes. He is irate and is really pulling the victim card right now I feel. He is pushing for about half the money for himself and to scrimp on food to ensure he has cigarettes.
Am I being a jerk to feel like saying no to this request of him?
absolutely not being a jerk...I had to do the same thing.....wife was out of control...now she's on an allowance and still manages to overspend or take money meant for bills and get her hair done etc. She pissed and moaned...and for once I said "I dont' care"....I'm not going into forclosure because of you......
I have a strong issue with the smoking period but am trying to keep that separate from this.
In a couple of weeks when I have a better hold on things this won't be an issue. He will get his money two weeks at a time and so will I. It is just hard right now because I just took over the money and we don't have much.
Addiction no matter what form though doesn't wait two weeks. Argggg.
I think it is a good idea for you to keep ahold of enough if the finances to cover the bills. However if he is working and contributing to the household income keeping all the money away from him seems to be a control issue. And I would ask myself what my motives are in controlling all the money. Is it to make sure the bills are paid or is it to keep him from buying booze and cigarettes? If it is later then you are trying to control his addictions and as we have all been around that block we know trying to control someones addiction is futile. If he wants a drink or a smoke he will find a way to get it, that I can promise you. My son lost his jobs could not buy his drugs so he researched and found over the counter medication he could take in massive amounts and achieve the same high. Still he did not have money so he became very adept at stealing. So if it were me I would make sure the bills were paid and his fines or whatever and let him have the rest of his money. What he does with it is up to him. If he would rather smoke than eat so be it. Hope you are getting to meetings Blessings
I wish I had done what you are doing sooner. You are very brave and looking at this very wisely.
I believe you are doing your best in tough situation. Where it is not up to us to control their addictions, he is an addict.
I know what it is like not to have $2 for four weeks. ugh. If I were you I would figure out what food or whatever you need, figure the cost of his cigs and gas, fairly so you are not scrimping and afraid, give him part.
That is me. You shared his total check goes into the account. I don't know if you work.
Well as you shared this is only for two weeks. Considering the mess his behavior has made, of course you have to protect yourself.
I want to add, my AH, when he was super money poor, bought tobacco and rolled his cig himself. So there are ways to make it. You shared he can conserve on gas by getting rides and paying part of the gas.
If we give in to unreasonable requests we are enabling a behavior.
I am glad you have the rest protected. May I ask what happens if he stops his checks from going into your account? Are you able to protect yourself there?
I am grasping a part of what you are saying, but not the other part. I pay the bills, he will not look at the bills or take part in budgeting or paying them. He provides me his cheque, I pay the bills and he has been having access to the funds till now as I changed my pin # so he can't spend the bill money.
We came up with the idea that we will do the bills together, we each get a set amount of money for what we choose to do with. Since he has spent all but the little bit of bill and food money in my account there currently is not enough until next week on pay day to give each of us a set amount. I took over before the food and bill money is gone.
He wants a part of the food money to buy his cigarettes.
I am not seeing how, if we both have a set amount of money to do what we want with, there is control here at all.
He does not drink. Smoking is his only physical addiction.
-- Edited by clep on Monday 22nd of November 2010 03:43:46 PM
I make about 75% of our income so yes I work. He works and would make more money but we thought it best for him to make less money right now for the best of our family emotionally and to have less stress during his return to AA.
It really isn't how much we make. We make plenty of money to pay bills, eat well, have some extra for savings as well as spending. The problem is that he spends money not wisely at all. That isn't due to alcohol or addiction other than smoking. It is that he has the play now, pay later attitude and that continues until the point of crisis.
He puts his cheques into my account because he can't get an account that will not hold everything for seven days due to his poor credit. There are no holds on my account.
Good idea about rolling. I thought of that and he could get a pouch of tobacco and tubes to last the week for the same price as two packs I think. Thanks so much for that. I am confident he will find that to be a reasonable solution for the next week. Twenty bucks is one thing, but seventy is another. You just solved the issue I have been working on all day.
Nothing happens if he stops his cheques from going into my account. I make enough money to completely support myself and our son. When he left us the first time I was a financial mess. I learned quickly and ensure I am independent so if he ever left again our son and I are fine.
I could not see him stopping the cheques though. He is fully aware that I am fair about things and do not use money as a weapon. He is still kicking and stomping a little today because the open account is over and he will have to be responsible now or be put out by his choices.
For me you are not talking about a sober or responsible person. I don't think I would even respond to any of his suggestion about what to do with the money as they wouldn't and aren't working. Crazy making. If he can work more he should work more. I separated myself from my alcoholic wife's financial situation and told all the creditors "what's mine is mine and what's her's is her's and if she isn't paying for her's go pick it up." My alcoholic use to steal from me and that had to stop finally cause the chances were that we were not going to make it in our marriage and we didn't and I needed some security for debt payments. In the end she stole almost all of it and attempted to get more. Alcoholism is truely cunning, powerful and baffling. Money does alot to calm fears and alcoholics have fears like nobody else.
Keep the focus on you allow him the dignity to be responsible for his own choices.
Like the other posts, my exHA (HA at the time) maxed out all of his credit cards to support his addiction. His auto fines, DUI, arrest, legal fees for prosecution, legal fees with his business partners all bled money so that our daughter and I needed to consider the possibilities of being homeless.
I tried to protect what remained. Initially my exHA voluntarily handed me his credit cards, bank card and gave up control of the money. Through diligence, I almost had the debt cleared 3 times. It was not easy. However, in our case, it also did not matter, as he found ways to spend anyway and his diminished access caused resentments. I divorced for fear of being homeless and, at the time, he felt he did not have a drinking problem.
He remarried this past May to someone in his AA group. They both earn 6-digit salaries. It appears that nothing changed, as he and his new wife are suing me for money. He took on her gambling debt, mortgage, bought her a car, paid for her education, and took over 6 holidays this year so far. Jerry is right about money calming fears, and as fearful as I am, my exHA and his new wife's fears seem to be even greater.
I am glad I protected myself and my daughter by taking control of the finances when I did. Sooner is better than later. Hindsight being 20/20, needing to take control was not an emotionally comfortable place for me. Sure, it provided relief and some temporary stability, but having to be in charge for survival was extremely hard on me emotionally. So, please remember to take care of you.
Hi Clep. Oh finances, this is one of the things I worry about most! I am working really hard to detach and focus on me, work on me, but the finances thing frustrates me beyond description. I believe, strongly, that in a marriage, there is a partnership and everything is shared. I dust, you take out the garbage, we share a bed, share a house, share a car, share a bank account. I have considered having completely separate finances but thats it, I cant do it it goes against what I think marriage is about, I will leave him before we have separate accounts and I pay these bills and he pays those bills just like a couple of college roommates do, I just dont believe in it.
We have remortgaged our house twice now. My AH racked up $12,000 in credit card debt in 9 months, we remortgaged and consolidated our debt (98% of which was his). A condition of this was that my AH pay off and cancel both his credit cards (The banks condition and they wanted proof). He finally did this 6 months later, after racking up another couple thousand in debt this is because I did nothing, I didnt nag him, I didnt make him do it, blah blah and I ended up regretting that. When it comes to finances, it so much more complicated. Oh, not to mention how embarrassing it is talking to the bank about this.
Both those credit cards are cancelled and paid off now, I have one credit card and we have a joint account, (we have our own debit cards) both our cheques go in there (although my AH just got terminated from his job after being suicidal in a psych ward for 2 weeks because he didnt call his employer back after a month of being released on outpatient status). So, now only my cheques go in there.
I manage the finances, pay all the bills. I see what my AH spends cause I check the online banking regularly. He never buys alcohol from our account so I have no clue how hes managing to get money for alcohol. He might be selling stuff from our house, stealing booze from friends, debiting extra money at the grocery store to get cash back, who knows, maybe he goes to payday loans or took out another credit card already. But I sure hope not cause we absolutely cannot afford to remortgage our house again. (I know I know, remortgaging and consolidating debt is like rescuing him so hes not forced to face the consequences of his actions, but I really felt there was no other way we couldnt afford to make monthly payments on his credit card debt, and paying the minimum does nothing so we consolidated and remortgaged.
I am constantly worried about finances and my AH is too irresponsible and delusional to care about it. Buy now, worry later and never look at the bills to see the debt accumulating that way its not real. Thats how he thinks or how he behaves.
Clep, I dont think youre a jerk by refusing that request of your husband. I would pick putting food on the table and paying bills or booze and smokes, but Im not a messed up alcoholic who is incapable of thinking clearly and rationally, much less making good, responsible choices. I do however also think that if you refuse his request, he will find another way!
Before my husb had to cancel and pay of his credit cards, he spent $22 a day, sometimes more, on booze. He changed the mailing address on his credit cards and switched to online everything and changed his passwords and cleared the internet history so I would never see his bills. Now that he has no credit cards left, I have no clue how hes still buying alcohol. I know he isnt drinking as much or as often, but he still is. Hes also going to AA just about every night and almost has a sponsor (has been talking to a few possibilities).
Finances are a tough topic and one I worry about daily. I really dont think Im controlling the finances because I WANT to control them, I do it because Im wanting and needing to protect MY financial future.
What are other peoples finances like?
Do others have joint accounts? Separate?
If others have joint accounts, do your alcoholics by booze from the joint account? My AH does everything to hide his drinking. He never admits to drinking, never drinks in front of anyone, always alone, by himself.
Danielle I'm sorry to hear of your trying financial situation. I too feel like you do about marriage being about joint account and money etc. Unfortunately my A's behavior does not allow me to live out what my first choice will be.
He is not happy I will not give him the credit card. He ended up making two hundred dollars cash the very day I posted the original message. He then had cigarettes. He only had fifteen dollars this morning as we have been using the cash he has had and I have left the other money in the bank.
I demanded that he go through the bills with me and he did that. He is "supposed" to sit down with me and watch some shows on finances and debt reduction.
I did realize last night at my meeting that financially I do have it pretty good. I was so frustrated with the finances, but I was really upset he wasn't doing what I wanted with them. I am learning the last few days that even though I have an idea of how things should go financially, doesn't mean he is going to see things the same as I do. While he is early back into his recovery until he get's back to the point he used to be at, I need to take over to protect myself and not enable his irresponsible behavior. Maybe it won't always be like that, but for today I can accept that it is.
Thanks Clep, I'm trying, that's all we can do, right? Did you find that other people finances were worse off than your own in an Alanon meeting?
Finances are just so difficult. It's also more difficult because not every form of help (alanon, psychologists, and addictions foundation therapists) are in agreement about how to handle the financial stuff.
For example, my therapist suggested separating everything. She suggested we have our own accounts, our cheques go into different accounts and then we decide who pays what bills. Well, I have a HUGE problem with that. HUGE. I cant do it. Like I said, its not what I believe marriage to be about, and also, my AH cant be trusted to pay a bill! Even if the bills were in his name so it didnt affect my credit, doesnt matter it will affect me soon enough when we have no water or heat in our house because of him not paying that bill! Then, after a while with no heat or whatever, Id eventually have to pay the bill because well, my daughter and I need it! Then, I would be rescuing my husband which is bad so what do I do!? (SorryIm getting all worked up here, as you can tell.)
Then, the Addictions Foundation where we live (my AH has a therapist there and Ive had a couple meetings with them). One of their recommendations for addicts is to remove access. Well, taking away credit cards or access to money, is removing access. But other people see this as control or me trying to control his drinking.
Its just confusing and different professionals suggest different things.
Ill just do what I feel is right for me for now. But, Im incredibly frustrated about it.
I find myself grateful after hearing about he stories of others. Many women are where I was about five years ago. My A left me and our son. I had nothing but a large amount of bills, a very low paying job (he said to do what made me happy even if it paid lower) and lots of panic and stress.
I decided for myself in the following week after that happened I was going to set myself up so that I do not have to live like that again. I know many, many women that feel like they can't leave due to financial reasons. If my A left me today it would not affect me in the slightest financially. I have my own credit, money, good paying job and I can pay all my bills with money left over for savings and vacations etc.
If my A had any access I would not be in that position. I need to look after me and do what it takes to ensure I can provide for our child should he physically relapse. The mental relapse of the past few months has been enough.
When I posted the original post here I was worried about being mean and controlling and what others might think. Today I believe I am doing the right thing for me regardless of what anyone else thinks. They do not have the intimate knowledge of my situation that I do.
I completely see your point in not feeling comfortable with your A paying even some bills. I remember people telling me that and thinking to myself "you have never lived or tried to work with someone this irresponsible". They would tell me that when there was no gas he would learn. I tried that and we went without hot water or heat for three weeks. I was boiling water on the stove to bath my son. At least it was summer out. This experience didn't phase him a bit. He continued on with what he was doing. It did cause me lots of work and strain though.
For me I feel more serenity if I pay the bills and take that control. It doesn't mean I am controlling as my preference would be to have a partnership. It means I need to look after myself and child as the A is busy looking after himself.
