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Well I write this having decided to leave my spouse. We reconciled ten months ago after a year apart. He is a recovered addict and alcoholic.
I have let him know I am leaving him and it breaks my heart to be doing so. He has been going through the mental and emotional process of relapse but has not physically done so yet. He has returned to the dry drunk thinking and behavior for many months now. I hate the insanity.
Smoking is a huge issue for us. I quit smoking two months ago. He has left our family three times in the past and each time I quit smoking. When we reconciled I would start again. I can't kiss him as a non smoker. I decided that I do not want to be a smoker anymore and did talk with him about it about five months ago. I let him know I was worried about the level of physical intimacy when I am repulsed by kissing him or being near him. Since I quit and have asked him to do the same our relationship has completely crumbled. He resents me asking him to quit and is fine with no sex, kissing or hugging. I can't believe it.
He says he will quit but has to find a way to do that without resenting me, has said he has to get back into his program to do that and has asked me to wait three or four months for him to accomplish it. The problem is I believe that is just a way of putting off the situation and when the time comes he will ask for more time saying he is really trying. I don't see him really trying.
I am so upset I could scream. I don't understand still even after doing all of my Al-anon steps and working why anyone would want to live in the insanity and chaos that active addiction brings or the thinking of a dry drunk brings. Why not just step out of the tornado to clear skies? Can someone please help me with this concept.
All I know is whether its drinking or smoking we cannot make another person stop their behaviors.
I suggest you continue Alanon for your own sake. Glad you have a sponsor and working the steps. We always will be working the steps, as we progress and grow. We all grow in our own pace. I know smoking is unpleasant, but just because you have given it up , doesnt mean we can inforce our will on another individual, even if he is your spouse. Perhaps you can get him to smoke outside in a compromise.
You dont say how long you have been in Alanon, but the suggestion is to wait at least 6 months before you make any major decisions, as you work the program. Of course that is ultimately up to you.
The most important thing is that we continue with our meetings and our board of MIP. Keep coming back. Luv, Bettina
I guess here I have to respond as an active smoker lol And heaven help anyone who tries to come between me and my smokes. That being said for an A who have given up that addiction that may be all he can handle right now. I have tried to quit smoking so many times over the years as well as my husband, usually becuase our kids would beg us to stop. Usually after about 2 weeks our kids would be begging us to just go have a smoke already. Our behavior changed dramatically when we tried to quit smoking, we were irritable, anxious, obessed on other things and not in a healthy way...in truth we were miserable and miserable to be around. There is really no such thing as a recovered A. Recovery is a life long process and it is a battle your husband fights everyday. If he isn't working a program than yes he is a dry drunk with much of the same behaviors as when he was drinking. I would urge you to work your program and get the focus back on you and off what your husband is doing. You can't make him quit smoking just as you couldn't get him to stop drinking. That is something he has to want for himself. I would agree with the above reply that if you havent been in the program long you wait 6 months or so before making any major decisions. And that maybe making compromises in the mean time may help...such as he does smoke outside ( I know we have never smoked in our home) and that you might want to ask that he brush his teeth, use mouthwash before intimacy. There may be a middle ground here and as you work your program you may find othe options that will work for you. I wish you well in your recovery Blessings
My bf smokes (My qualifier) and he doesn't smoke in the house. That is my boundary. I can't handle the direct smoke because of my asthma. He realizes this and I don't want it around my kids either, so he smokes outside. It sounds like there is other underlying things going on, though with you, and your relationship, that smoking is the scapegoat? If you have been in program long enough, you will know where your heart is in all of this. Keep on keeping on, and take care of you :)
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You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection. -Buddha
The past has flown away. The coming month and year do not exsist. Ours only is the present's tiny point. -Mahmud Shabistanri
"I don't understand still even after doing all of my Al-anon steps and working why anyone would want to live in the insanity and chaos that active addiction brings or the thinking of a dry drunk brings. Why not just step out of the tornado to clear skies? Can someone please help me with this concept."
Everyone who stays, does for their own reasons. They may not even know why.
It may not be clear skys for everyone. Some have no other income than the A. Some have no one to help them, many it is their home and he won't leave, so many reasons.
My reason was I wanted to make sure I did everything possible to save our marriage. In the end the disease won.l
clear skies, gads, I was homeless, my jeep got taken away, I lost almost everything. He stole from my bank account.
Still seven years later from when it really started, I am fighting to not lose my home. My inheritance from my mother was put into this house.
I doubt anyone gets anything positive for a long long time.
Plus most people are afraid of change. Familiar is more comfortable than walking away sometimes.
We all have to decided for ourselves. Also remember the disease makes everyone around them sick too, so it is hard to have a clear head in the midst of that insanity.
I know it is so much more than his smoking making you want to end this.
I invite you to look at the Serenity prayer. That helps me in decisions, even little ones.
I'm with sunflowergirl, I don't think smoking is the "real" issue for you.
I'm a former smoker and my ABF is a smoker; I don't even notice the taste or smell on him. However, there is no smoking in my home or my car (for anyone), and he respects that.
He is also a pot smoker, and that's the thing I can't stand the smell of. As it is an illegal substance, I won't permit it in my home. After he smokes, he rinses off his face, washes his hands, and gives his teeth a quick brush to get rid of the smell -- I've recoiled from it in the past when we've kissed. A quick swish of mouthwash would probably accomplish the same purpose.
Sometimes I struggle with it when he falls into his old dry drunk behaviours -- less and less often these days, thankfully! -- but working the Al-Anon program sure helps me with my attitude in those times.
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Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could... Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. - Emerson
Aloha Clep...When I first got into Al-Anon the suggestion was not to make any major decisions for up to two years while "working" the program. They could have said 10 years and would have gotten the same results. Asking a controller not to control is like asking an addict (pick your own drug) or alcoholic to stop using or drinking before they are willing and honest about the disease. I've relapsed on nicotene and because going back to cigarettes doesn't provide me with enough of the drug as fast as I need it I went to cigars...enhaling as much nicotene and tar as my system could handle...that is exactly how an alcoholic returns to drinking; playing catchup ball with a mind and mood altering chemical which could kill them in the process. My spouse set boundaries which were for herself and I understood thru the filter of the program. My boundary was to smoke as much as I could without pissing off anyone including my addiction. When I learn how to stop or change I can work that and be successful...I'm done again for months now and just this morning heard the voice suggesting I "go back out again".
This is what all addicts fight and you get to set boundaries right along with boundaries for your expectations. I was told that the definition for expectations was that they were "future resentments"; works for me. I don't like feeling resentful so I work on recovering from having and using expectations "have none" which is like telling myself don't drink (I am one of those also) and don't smoke.
Very first part of the first step works for me..."Admitted I was powerless over..."
Be grateful that you were able to stop and stay stopped for you. The rest of us and the world are gonna do whatever we've decided we need to do inspite of the rules and judgements. We're just gonna. Keep coming back for you.
Thanks everyone for the posts. I appreciate all of your esh.
I have been in the program for a year and a half. I have done all of my steps as well as two AA big book studies and meet weekly with Al-anon and AA members in the same room. I get to hear both sides every week.
The AA big book does speak of "recovered" multiple times. It is a lifelong process but if relapse has not happened an A is considered recovered until a relapse happens to my understanding.
Smoking is the "real" issue here. The smell and taste does repulse me, even if it doesn't repulse anyone else. I am not happy with living in a relationship with NO physical intimacy as that is a vital part of a relationship. Mouthwash doesn't help unfortunately. He also has to sleep breathing through his mouth as he has nose problems and the smoke on his breath smells so bad it wakes me in the night. It drives me crazy waking several times a night.
I do believe I can stay with him living in an unhappy relationship, but I wish to live in one that thrives, not just survives. I also wish to live in a healthy relationship where both parties are working on things, thinking of the other and making things dynamic.
He smokes outside, and then the smell trails behind him and stinks up the foyer and everywhere he walks. I hate our house smelling like smoke. It is disgusting.
I do have expectations where myself and others are concerned. I expect that people do not steal from me, punch me in the head, show some respect for me as a person....you know basic things. A person who stands for nothing will stand for anything, and I am not that person. Are my expectations too high...I don't think so. I think many peoples are non existent, hence the insanity they live in and live an unfulfilled life filled with chaos. Why anyone would not have even basic expectations of their mate is beyond me. To me that is what leads to abusive relationships.
I hear the part about why people stay. Thanks for answering that and I appreciate that. I just have to do what works for me I guess. I am financially secure on my own, so that is not an issue.
Someone said to work my program and keep the focus on me and less on him. That statement is exactly what I need to be doing and thank you so very much for pointing that out. I am not sure how to accomplish that yet as I go to four meetings a week, and read often. The best I have come up with is that I ordered the books today "Getting them Sober" and put a rush on them so they will be here in a few days.
Aloha Clep...When I first got into Al-Anon the suggestion was not to make any major decisions for up to two years while "working" the program. They could have said 10 years and would have gotten the same results. Asking a controller not to control is like asking an addict (pick your own drug) or alcoholic to stop using or drinking before they are willing and honest about the disease. I've relapsed on nicotene and because going back to cigarettes doesn't provide me with enough of the drug as fast as I need it I went to cigars...enhaling as much nicotene and tar as my system could handle...that is exactly how an alcoholic returns to drinking; playing catchup ball with a mind and mood altering chemical which could kill them in the process. My spouse set boundaries which were for herself and I understood thru the filter of the program. My boundary was to smoke as much as I could without pissing off anyone including my addiction. When I learn how to stop or change I can work that and be successful...I'm done again for months now and just this morning heard the voice suggesting I "go back out again".
This is what all addicts fight and you get to set boundaries right along with boundaries for your expectations. I was told that the definition for expectations was that they were "future resentments"; works for me. I don't like feeling resentful so I work on recovering from having and using expectations "have none" which is like telling myself don't drink (I am one of those also) and don't smoke.
Very first part of the first step works for me..."Admitted I was powerless over..."
Be grateful that you were able to stop and stay stopped for you. The rest of us and the world are gonna do whatever we've decided we need to do inspite of the rules and judgements. We're just gonna. Keep coming back for you.
(((((hugs)))))
I did not quit smoking for me. I quit smoking for my son and my spouse....mainly for my son.
Smoking education is taught in his school. He was coming home worried about how mom and dad were going to die of lung cancer as he learned of that. He mentioned it several times and was quite worried.
I believe it is selfish of me to place that kind of emotional burden on our child. I also pictured him sitting beside me on my death bed which is very possible. He would probably be grief stricken at the thought of losing his mother, and also angry with me that I could have prevented it. I have the right to put my son through that if I so choose, but it would be a terrible thing to do to him or anyone else that loved me for that matter.
What you call rules and judgement, I call love and true unselfishness for another.
What you call future resentments I call basic respect for others. People can count on me, they can expect that I won't steal from them, abuse them, use them, live a selfish life that will cause them grief, that I will communicate with them openly and honestly. They can expect me to admit to the things I am not doing and fix those things. If I am struggling they can expect me to come to them and share that, letting them know that I am still working on it.
I know the motto....do what is right for YOU, regardless of how one affects another. Geesh. It actually matters to me how my behaviors affect another. If it were like that with more people, our population might not have such poor relationships.
I can relate to you somewhat, but it's hard when you put all your trust in the person you love and we give chances and chances and maybe so they will change, after 9 year of being with Husband I decided on a separation where it was supposed to be for a year, but it only lasted two months, the big addiction is gone, as far as I know, but now another one kicked in, and now I really convinced I made a mistake of taking him back too fast, but I know we sacrifice oursefves and give all ourselves to them and we forget that we are important as well. We got to love ourselves, think about what makes us happy, I have not gone away from my relationship because I put him first and not me, just know to stay strong and think about what makes you happy, it's been a great help and motivation to be here and see how many of us are going to almost the same issues, and even though they are different issue, we share the hurt and we are all here to love one another with a good word that says, "we are here for you"
Thanks for the message Wife. I am glad I have been understanding to this point and have not kept score. I find that more difficult though given the past behaviors seeping into our present. I think I took mine back too fast. It was a year and he had changed so very much. I realize the extreme co-dependency that he suffers from had not changed though and he would not have realized that until he was back in a relationship so I am not angry about that. I don't put him first or me first, but I can identify that as I used to do that. I am struggling right now though with how much I am willing to put up with to ensure I am not living a life for him only. That is a concept I struggle with greatly in the Al-anon program.
I have the idea that I can keep trying to comb my hair in the midst of the tornado or I can just step out of the tornado. I see so many women in Al-anon putting their partner first, managing ways to deal with the chaos and still keep their own sanity. I am on an emotional roller coaster trying to do the same, but I am struggling deeply with that.
Thank you for the message that reminds me I am not alone, as I feel that way right now for many reasons.
There is an analogy in Alanon about recovery having to be like the situation with air masks on an airplane. If you are traveling with a child, you are supposed to put on YOUR mask first, and then assist the child with theirs. It won't work the other way around - if you put the child's mask on first and then pass out and die because of lack of oxyen, then what?
By analogy, the same is true in Alanon. We can't give what we don't have to give. We could spend our whole life, every ounce of energy we have, trying to work someone else's recovery - trying to pick up the mess, trying to find the bottles, trying to push rehab, trying to make someone else act how we feel is right - and at the end of the day, we're the one with no oxygen mask. Putting someone else first when it comes to recovery does not work. The women that manage to stay sane amongst the chaos don't put their partners first - they put their own recovery first. It is only in that order that they have the ability to detach from the chaos.
