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The other night we caught our son lying about doing his homework... again. W told him to go to bed. He turned (with a dramatic huff) and left. She didn't like his attitude and grabbed him by the arm (probably some nails involved here). He called her a bitch.
I had to step in and tell him that he can never talk to his mother like that. It is not acceptable. W grabbed his face (not hard) and went off on him about how he acts like he's entitled to everything we work so hard to give him.
I spoke with him privately. He said that he feels like she's always disappointed with him and sees him as a loser with no future. I told him that his future is whatever he wants it to be. Right now, he continues to make the same choices he's always made (not doing his work and lying about it). He's certainly capable of doing the work. But, nothing changes if nothing changes. He's got to decide he wants to do the work.
He said that he's walking on eggshells around her because he never knows when she's going to yell at him. Hey, I feel the same way!
When I told her this she started to vent. I took it personally and told her not to react. She told me to go %&#@ myself. I turned to go and said I wouldn't be spoken to that way. She went into the "O great! You're all against me! Just go upstairs and leave me down here" routine.
I told her if she wants to discuss calmly I would. She had only had 1/2 bottle of wine by that time.
She did turn it around on me a bit. While my son and I were discussing she pushed me into the room to close the door so she wouldn't have to listen to us talk about her. I reacted and told her "Don't push me"! She said this was bad behavior to model for our son. I'm not so sure! Frankly, I would hope my son would stand up to anyone who treats him in a way he doesn't like. She doesn't think she pushed me that hard.
I want to talk to S and let him know he's understood and safe. I want to hear more of his thoughts but don't want to make him feel like he's taking sides against his mom. I'm sure she would think that I'm manipulating him against her.
I've been reading a book which addresses "Nice Guy Syndrome" (which I read as male codependency).
We:
Seek the approval of others
Hide our perceived flaws and mistakes
Put other people's needs and want before our own
Sacrifice their personal power and often play the role of a victim
Tend to be disconnected from other men and from their own masculine energy
Co-create relationships that are less than satisfying
OK, here's the Pity Party-
Since I feel like a doormat so often, I feel that I'm not teaching my boys to be men. I'm just teaching them to be codependent men.
I want them to be better than me and take care of their needs.
OK, I think I'm done! I'd love any input on this. It's hard to look at it objectively. I tried to use detachment but I've got a lot more to learn!
Aloha Stepping up...that is both the process of addiction and recovery from it as I remember. I don't relate much to the nice guy syndrome...not completely as I did have payoffs in mind at times when I acted like that rather than just doing acceptable things because they were the right thing to do. Stay open with your son so that he can see the different behaviors modeled and can choose the ones that support him.
All those anger reactions don't serve to bring loved ones closer but do the exact opposite...we drive them away while we're looking for verifications. Crazy Making!!
Keep coming back and thanks for the ESH. (((((hugs)))))
Tough one, for sure.... My experience in dealing with active A's (mine was my wife as well) was I tried for far too long to have a "rational and healthy" conversation with an "irrational and unhealthy" A..... Raising kids with an active A only adds to the confusion and difficulty....
I thought I would re-post one of my old ones, from 2008, as perhaps it gives some good additional thoughts to your situation, and what we really may (or may not be) teaching our children by our actions...
Take care Tom
What are we really showing our children?
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Those of you who "know me", know that I am very wary of any insinuation of "strong = leave, and weak = stay" posts, or advice for people on the big stay vs. leave decision....
That being said, I offer up the following bit of E,S&H as a healthy reminder to look at things from all sides, when we are making our paths.....
A good friend of mine, in Al-Anon, shared a touching story with me that I will keep with me forever.... Her A husband was not physically abusive, but was a rager, and was horrible to both her and the kids when he drank.... They avoided him like the plague, and were scared when he was drunk..... She stayed "for the children", until they had both graduated high school.... This lady has a healthy relationship with both of her (now grown) children, and things HAVE worked out okay, but she had an eye opening conversation with her 23-year old daughter that I wanted to share....
They were having dinner one night, and reminiscing about the growing up years, and G said to her daughter "I hope you realized why I stayed.... I wanted you to learn about loyalty, perseverance, and keeping the family unit together". (How many of us have said the same?? I know I did!). Her daughter, without malice, told her Mom: "Mom, what you taught me was that it was okay to be treated like "xxxx" and be ridiculed and not respected". It took me a long time to un-learn these things myself. I love you, but I don't respect your decision on that one."
I share this with the intent of offering another viewpoint..... We are pretty quick to rationalize our thinking, but the reality is that even our own thinking gets clouded within the insanity of living the roller coaster life around an A.... I don't think the "right" answer for everyone is to leave - far from it - but I DO like to examine the facts, as they are shown to us. My counsellor had to (almost yell at me) - tell me "Tom, you are trying to save a white picket fence marriage, but guess what?? Yours is NOT a white picket fence marriage!"
Food for thought
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Tom, that is such a wonderful share. While my father is not an A, he had a lot of rage issues and there was a lot of emotional abuse growing up. I have talked a little with my mother over the years about why she stayed, and at the end of the day, my own opinion about the choices that were made that affected my life was that my parents' attempts to save their marriage "for the kids" left me more screwed up than if they had split up. I realize that these feelings are 100% unique to my own situation and perspective, but they definitely informed my decision to divorce my ex-husband (who is not an A, but has many, many emotional issues). I was not prepared to resign myself to an unhappy, dysfunctional future because I thought it would be better for our kids.
I guess my ESH on this issue is that it is not a healthy or productive lifestyle to make major life decisions based solely on what we think is best for others (yes, including our kids). Of course, I am always thinking about what is best for my children, and that DOES inform the boundaries I am setting with my current AH. After all, younger kids in particular depend on us to guide them and protect them. But I am mindful that I must ALWAYS stay in touch with my own needs, and that those needs must also enter the equation.
Thank you all so much for your advice and support.
I'm at a place where I must protect my kids, not my wife. I never thought I'd ever be in a place where I'd need to protect my kids from my wife but here we are.
Yes, I would see that you are in that position. I'm a double winner by the way. It is very hard on the children. Is there any way that she would seek help. It is very damaging for your son.
