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hello again, I'm working Al Anon and detaching, realizing Alcoholism is a disease. At the same time, I'm doing things proactively regarding the illness because I feel the relationship is worth trying for. So I asked my AF within the week to get a full evaluation with recommendations for treatment and to follow those recommendations. None of this has happened yet, but I'm hoping. IF this happens I am positive he will be diagnosed as A, since I've done the quizzes online and all of them (even answering as I think my A might) show him to be an A. (binge drinker, once weekly, lighter drinker or dry between times). As a back-up, I'm also reading up on how to do interventions with love (Love First by Jay and Jay) - this would be me, his older sister (and BIL?), and maybe his mom and (maybe) an interventionist. I'm also wondering what sort of treatment to have "lined up" - whenever I've mentioned "treatment" he doesn't like that idea (of course) - only counseling or AA. But my therapist, who is coincidentally an expert in CD and intervention consultancy, says that 70% of people who seek treatment don't want to at first, so I shouldn't let that deter me. Also she - and other sources - say some form of treatment (preferably inpatient though I think he'd NEVER go for that) is best before AA. And why am I just not letting it lie? The thing is my AF has never had a chance to have proper treatment, so I have no way of judging what would happen. But then I read stories online and hear them in Alanon, and so many of them seem to be about repeated treatments, relapses, etc. Anyway...I guess I'm just looking for some hope. I know there are no guarantees but I don't think I should ONLY detach and leave it up to the A, because at this point I think that is not the right choice for me or him. I know that in the end only he can do it and only if he wants to, but we really have only just begun to scratch the surface of the options for dealing with the disease. Mostly I've just done all the enabling codependent things so far, but nothing proactive. Now I am starting to work on myself and change myself, I am accepting Step One, but I also want to be moving things along with encouraging him to get help (while also recognizing this does not amount to thinking I have the power to change him, etc.) Thoughts? Thanks!
I love the fact that you took the test for alcoholism , and thinking you were going to answer as he would . The alcoholic dosent think the way we think and a practicing alcoholic has problems with honesty ..the problem as u see it will differ from his perspective . The choice of treatment or not is his, he is the one who decides If and when he needs it . I have known some treatment to work ,never heard of an intervention that worked but i know if he truly wanted sobriety all he has to do is walk into a AA meeting and he will find all the support and encouragment he needs . Please get the focus back on yourself you are the only person u have any contol over our lives get much simpler when we learn to stay out of thier stuff .
Accepting Step One was easy for me when I first went through the doors of Al-Anon. I knew and realized the disease was much more powerful than me, and I knew my life had become unmanageable. My problem was I continued to try to offer my alcoholic solutions because I thought I knew what was best for her. I was putting all the fouus on my A but nothing changed. I tried harder and harder and my life became more and more unmanageable. When I look back the disease had not only made my life unmanageable but had driven me crazy as well. One day after several months in the program I finally had "acceptance" of Step One. "Realizing" that it is so and "Accepting" it is so is as different as daylight and dark. That's when my life began to change. I put the focus on myself, continued going to my f2f meetings, and listened to the old timers ES&H-------- what had worked for them. I could have continued to try and fail, or I could try what was provern and has worked for others worldwide when they applied the program to their lives.
Always take care of yourself first, continue attending as may f2f meeting as you can, and keep coming back.
HUGS, RLC
-- Edited by RLC on Friday 29th of October 2010 07:36:42 PM
Aloha Imogen...I learned it like RLC and was taught it by women like Abbyal. I'm very grateful because of it. In detachment I learned to turn the responsibility of my alcoholic wife's life back over to her and allow her the dignity of her mistakes and choices. She got to take her own test and figure out what she had to do to get and stay sober. After all it was her life and I wasn't born with a note from God telling me I was to meet her and fix her. My addiction is enabling...fixing people I think are broke and need me whether they are and do or not. I was told in Al-Anon that the life I have is a gift from God and what I do with it is my gift back. If I'm fixing others I do nothing with my own life.
Sometimes interventions work and sometimes threatment does also. Whether it works or not depends on him and not you. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
As far as I know the only person who can truly diagnose your father as an alcoholic is himself and if he does that he would have to admit he has a problem...how likely is it that you see that happening. You answered those questions as you think an A would....how you really answered those questions is how YOU see the A. I am sorry if that sounds harsh but true. As far as interventions I can only tell you what little I know about them and you can see if it makes sense to you. Interventions are held to get the A to reach or raise thier bottom during the intervention. It is not just everyone telling the A how thier drinking has affected thier lives. It is about each and everyone of you yes telling them how you've been affected and then placing a boundary on what you are going to do if they continue with thier addiction. For example... you may say "dad your disease has affected me in the following manner_____(fill in the blanks there) we are offerring you a chance at recovery by _____ (fill in what his option is) and if you do not accept this then __________ ( what is your boundary here? What are you willing to say AND follow thru with to raise his bottom). What ever the boundary is it has to be strong enough that the A sees no other choice than to accept treatment. Does that make sense. For example you may have to say that if he doesn't accept treatment than you will no longer see him, or he will not be allowed into your home. or he can't see his grandchildren whatever it is. Personally I took me a good long time in this program to be able to set and follow thru with my boundaries. The boundaries are for YOU not for the A. It is not meant as a punishment for them but more for protection and peace for you in this insane disease. I would suggest you spend your energy right now working your program as has been stated above accept you are "powerless" over this disease and your A. This one step took me 10 months to get through my hard head. I think you said your dad would not likely accept in patient treatment but maybe go to AA. So best case senerio he goes to AA..what if he doesn't work the steps and get sober but he's going as you wanted what then? Honestly best case senerio is you work your program. I wish you the best in what ever decision you make Blessings
dear Abbyal, RLC, JerryF and Xeno59, Thanks for your advice. I think you're right I need to keep the focus on me. At this point I'm just information-gathering, so your responses were really helpful. One thing I realized I wasn't clear about (sorry!) is "AF" - by which I meant Alcoholic Fiancé. Still learning the acronyms! I can't figure out what MIP is, by the way. I love my fiancé so much and want to find ways to stay with him. But I'm scared that if he doesn't get treatment my bottom line/boundary - in-progress means I would eventually have to let him go (completely). On the other hand maybe I could keep him and just be in Alanon. I don't know. Everything is confusing. I just have hope in Alanon for the time being, and take comfort and gratitude in how sweet my fiancé is to me, even when he's drunk (although then his tuning out and flakiness - blackouts too - all part of the disease - are what hurt me). I feel like if I stayed with him knowing what I know and ended up having kids with him, people would judge me, as I have admitted there's a problem, and heard so many people saying "if I knew then what I knew now I would never have moved in / gotten married / had kids etc." It's painful though because these are all things I want. And have already moved in (NOT knowing a problem existed) and gotten engaged (KNOWING a problem existed). And I want marriage and kids with this man. But I have halted wedding planning (not the same as calling off the engagement but it feels similar in my heart), because I got so scared about the idea of living with this fear and uncertainty that is part of being with an alcoholic - forever. But what if I can't give him up? What if I don't want to? What if I still want to have kids with him even if he doesn't go sober/get treatment? Does this make me a bad person? A sick person? A selfish person? I know I 'm a sick person because I've become sick from the A and from past bad experiences around alcohol - A's - in my life. But I'm not sure I want to change so much that I would feel this person is bad for me, because so far he's been so good for me (I mean, really, I have stabilized so much and gotten back on my feet out of a deep depression since meeting him...) but now everything keeps changing....I want to change, I know I have to for my survival but I love him so much and ...I don't want to lose him. That was supposed to be just a clarification, turned into a big response. Whoops. I am sick (with a bad cold) right now by the way...and behind on work. Freaking out a little bit about how to get caught up AND do all this stuff....so yes, you're right I should keep the focus on me for right now, but I'm getting impatient because 5 weeks ago I thought we were getting married, planning to start trying for kids when I would be 33.5 years old...I am 32.75 years old now. I really want to have a family. I guess I feel like I could be sacrificing these plans entirely - either by leaving - or by staying (as I think if I stayed with him I would feel too guilty to bring kids into it>) Arhg. Sorry. Just trying to get it all out there. And please know my worries are NOT judgments of people that have done this, just fear of being judged and making mistakes for myself. Love me
Hi hon, You are so good at sharing and asking questions. Glad you are here.
When we have kids, we need help. I would ask you, how will you feel when you have a sick baby, and he is binging, and or blacking out? Are you wanting to raise your kids alone?
When A's use they do not mature, when most women have a child they mature sooo much and change. Women look at the world different, we become even more protective, survival, a home for our child, so many things change.
Lets say he had a brain tumor that made him act like he does, how do you think it would be if you had a baby or children trying to deal with it?
Plus hon they get worse, much worse. My friend had many kids, they needed food, dad went out and bought beer. They will always put their drug of choice first.
The reason we say one day at a time is we have enough going on in one day with out adding more onto it projecting too far ahead.
If you can cut yourself off from his disease, it is his business, and enjoy and love him as is using al anon skills, then there is one option. In time you will be able to make your decisions by being honest with yourself.
Lets ask this, your friends want you to watch their two kids, would you want them around him binging, drinking, passing out, acting retarded from alcohol? I say retarded as the brain is retarded from the alcohols influence.
Do you plan on NEVER leaving the house unless the kids are with you? Are you going to take a chance and leave them with a sick person who drinks and cannot stop drinking?
When an A came to my home, starting tossing furniture, losing his temper, I was so scared, was in my nightcloths, grabbed my two kids, dog and cats and ran to the neighbors.
I would not leave my animals in an A's care. Not ever.
I know it is a hard concept, but NOTHING about their disease is any of our business.
What is our business is keeping ourselves as healthy as possible. Do you see how your being is being pulled into his disease, his needs, his being A or not? This is what the disease does, sucks a persons life away.
I see you taking one day at at time. Learning the Al Anon skills. Getting Them Sober is a great book.
Interventions can shake the A up. Show them how much people care. But are you willing to do your part? Interventions teach the loved ones to stop enabling. No more putting up with him coming home drunk, or your not living with him if he chooses to drink. Friends will not have anything to do with him if he is using etc.
Unless clear changes are put in place, and stood behind, it is a waste of time. Have you watched intervention on tv. eye opener I tell you.
rehab "work?" I get nervous that you don't realise how serious this is. It is NOT curable, does not go away. Some go into recovery, going to AA a lot, change how they live, how they look at things.
Many people have said on here that his working on his or her sobriety makes them feel so lonely as it is their number one priority. And it is. they don't just go to rehab an turn into a perfect person.
I know you know that. But they can be just as selfish or worse, they can need more than one meeting a day, always talking program.
They can relapse at any time, in hours, days years. We don't know.
An addict is an addict, it is not curable. This does not mean they cannot come out and be determined to be a better person, learn how to face lifes obstacles, be good mates and fathers and mothers.
There are more things to being born an addict than using a drug.
I have faith you will continue to research, take every moment with him as precious.
If you are seriously concerned about kids. Is it an alternative to have some of your eggs frozen? You seem to be so concerned about loving him, but needing to have kids soon. If you took the having kids out of the equation for now, would you look at this different?
I think that encouraging someone that has decided to get help is fine - if that person has made the decision to do so. Until the person decides for himself that he wants help, all of the encouraging from other people kind of just amounts to nagging, in my experience. My AH was sober for 5 years or so and then had a long relapse. During the relapse, I "encouraged" him pretty much daily to get help. He wasn't ready, and effectively, by bringing it up repeatedly, all I was doing was nagging him and trying to get him to do what I had determined was best for him. I only realize this in retrospect. I was so scared of having to let him go permanently that I did a lot of stuff out of fear that were not healthy. I managed to talk him into going to rehab 3 times in a 9 month period. All 3 times, I waited until he was drunk and very sad to nag him relentlessly until he agreed I could drive to a treatment center right that second. None of these trips to rehab were successful. There is no way to know why - maybe it was because he wasn't ready and was just going to appease me, maybe not. The answer just doesn't matter. I know that when he decided he was ready to get sober, he dug into AA hard and started working the steps. He's been sober for 2 years almost and didn't go to rehab just before the attempt at sobriety that stuck.
All this is just to say, I understand wanting sobriety for someone so much. I understand trying to get someone to go to rehab because maybe something might change. I understand wanting to encourage. However, for me - if my motive for encouraging was to bring about change and not simply to let the other person make decisions without judgment, I was not encouraging. I was controlling. An honest look at motive really helps me tell the difference. If it's controlling that I'm doing, I have to go back to step 1.
Also, I was just crushed each time after my AH went to rehab and then started drinking within a few days or weeks. Not trying to minimize the importance of rehab, certainly - for some people that need detox, it is absolutely essential. And for others, rehab is good because it's a break from the old routine and an opportunity to begin to make changes. But rehab is not reality. It's a controlled environment - and at the end of the stay in rehab, the addicts have to go back to reality. Some stay sober after rehab, and many don't. Point is, although I believed that rehab was my salvation at the time (because I just wanted my AH to be sober and I thought rehab would make him that way), the only thing that could get him there was him deciding he wanted sobriety and using the tools available to him to get it. I realize now that MY salvation was not his sobriety at all - but rather, my own recovery in the rooms of Al-Anon.
gosh! NO worries! it wasn't clear from MY post. You wrote a thoughtful, kind response. The principle (trying to help an alcoholic I am close to) is very similar, in any case.
It is possible to stay in a relationship with a practing alcoholic ,the choice is yours .. just have to accept that we have no control over other people keep the focus on yourself dont forget to make yourself happy we cannot allow our happiness to depend on another person , anyone else in our lives is a bonus they add to the happiness they cannot be the reason I am happy. I lived along time with the idea that if he is Fine I will be too .. wellllllllll trust me It didnt work that way . thankfully I found this program before my husb quit drinking so i was already learning to be my own best friend , sobriety brought new problems but thats life . Read the literature attend meetings do what this program suggests and your life will get better.
