The material presented
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Last night AH and I had an argument. He was upset with me because I am currently on medical leave, and I spent my time yesterday on the computer looking for a new job, reading the boards here, chatting with people from here, and reading a book. The kids were in school, AH was working from home, and there just wasn't anything to do around here other than what I mentioned above. Apparently, what I was doing with my time was the exact wrong thing to be doing. It all blew up as I was leaving for my depression support group. AH was on the phone with a coworker before I was about to leave, and I needed to let AH know that I was leaving. So I pulled up an application on my phone, and typed out that I needed to leave to make it to my support group in time. He whispered "What about dinner?" So I typed on my phone the quick and easy options that were there for him to make. He got upset and tossed my phone down on the ottoman. I just blew off the fact that he was upset about the choices and started to walk out the door. He quickly got of the phone, and told me to wait. He lit into me about how I did nothing all day long, and then I have the nerve to go to my support group, and not cook dinner. He knew before I started going to this support group that on Wednesday nights, he would be responsible for cooking dinner for himself and the kids because I have to leave at 5pm to make it there in time due to traffic. He never said anything in the past about it being an issue, until last night, when he blasted me for it.
So the argument went from him calling me lazy for doing nothing all day (which I don't know what I was supposed to be doing since I am on medical leave and can't go back to work yet), to telling me that I am a horrible mother, I am a drain on the kids, that the kids would be better off with limited exposure to me, and that he wanted a divorce. He told me that he is disgusted with me because I don't pull my weight around the house, and that my depression is always an issue, and it is bringing everyone else down, and he is sick of it all. He said he was going to contact an attorney, file for divorce, and fight me for custody of the kids (one of which isn't biologically his). We exchange some heated words in the garage, and then I left for the support group. During all of that, I couldn't even bring myself to cry. Once I got to the support group, I lost it when another woman was sharing what was going on with her. She just went through the same thing the day before with her husband. She was telling my story, and it hit me like a ton of bricks, and I couldn't stop crying. What's even more ironic is our husbands have the same name.
After that woman shared, a few other people shared, then it came my turn. I could barely speak because I was crying so much. I was finally able to get out everything that happened earlier in the day with AH. As I was sharing, I noticed that the woman that was going through the same thing started crying. We were both an emotional mess. Everyone was so sympathetic of my situation and a few people told me not to listen to the negative stuff that AH was telling me, and that I am a strong woman and will be able to get through this situation.
I got home last night, and AH and the kids were watching a movie. After the movie was over, they all went to bed. AH never said a word to me. So this morning, AH says to me "Did you notice anything when you got home last night?" I said "No." He said "Did anyone seem to notice when you got home last night?" I said "No, y'all seem engrossed in the movie, but I really didn't pay any attention to it as it didn't bother me." He said "How about after the movie?" I said "Andrew (7yr old) came up to me and rubbed my leg after the movie was over." He said "That should tell you something right there. If it were me coming home, the kids would've stopped what they were doing, and would've been all excited to see me. But when it comes to you, they couldn't care less." I said "Gee, thanks. Add insult to injury why don't you." Then he said "I want them to get excited when you walk in the door and see you, but they don't. I have also given a lot of thought about what I said last night. The guys need both their father and their mother in their lives. I am willing to give things one last shot, but I need to see some major improvement on your part in being an active member of this family and pulling your weight around here. If you don't, or decide you can't, then I will have no other choice than to file for divorce, because I can't live like this anymore." I said "Ok." Later on he came to me and said "I know you probably won't believe me when I say this, but I really do want things to work out between us." It almost seemed like he was telling me that so I would fall all over myself to thank him for being so gracious for giving me another chance in this marriage.
The thing that really bothers me about this whole ordeal is that when things don't go his way, he is quick to throw out that he wants a divorce. When the chips are down, he ducks and runs. But when things are good, he is fine. However, I have been through hell and back with this man, and have stuck by his side and continued to love him through some very hard times. I have stuck by him even though he cheated on me while I was pregnant with his son, took him back after him not being there for me during my pregnancy when he decided he did want to be a father, endured verbal, emotional, and physical abuse, encouraged him during a time when was unemployed for 5 months out of one year, and took him back during times that he thought he wanted us to separate and get divorced only to change his mind when the day came for either me to move out, or when we went to court for mediation to establish temporary visitation rights while we were going through the process of divorce. Every time we have split up, it was because he wanted to. I wanted to spend my life with him, and always came back to him when he changed his mind saying that he did love me and didn't want to lose me. I have stuck by him and loved him during times that I should have hated him. And believe me, he has given me more than enough reasons to hate him, but yet, I still love this man, and want to spend the rest of my life with him. I don't feel that I need him for any reason. I know I can make it on my own if we were to actually get divorced. I've done it before, and I know I can do it again. Yes, it would be hard, but its doable. I stay because I love him for who he is. Yes, he has had some very undesirable behavior in the past, but he has taken some very giant steps to stop a lot of that behavior, by doing a lot of self reflection, going to individual therapy, as well as marriage therapy, along with having CPS in our lives for 4 months due to domestic violence, and them having a social worker come out and educate us on on domestic violence, educate us on better parenting skills, and requiring mandatory therapy for 3 months. The cycle of abuse did stop. He has not cussed at me, called me any names, or hit me in the last year. I can only remember twice in the last year that he has actually yelled at me during an argument, and that was only to get louder than me to tell me to quit yelling at him.
I just feel so defeated today. I am tired of feeling I don't measure up to his expectations. Because I don't get in the floor and wrestle with the kids, or chase them around the house like he does, automatically means I never do anything with the kids. He can't seem to remember the times I have sat down with all of them and played a board game with them, or have cuddled up to them on the couch, and watched a tv show or movie that they wanted to watch, even though I had no interest in watching the movie or show. He doesn't seem to remember that I am normally the one that helps them with homework, and that I do my best to provide for them by cooking their meals, teaching them to pick up after themselves, disciplining them when they have undesirable behavior, and praising them when they have done a good job. He is so focused on what I don't do, that he can't remember what I actually do for them. He is so all or nothing, and it drives me insane. And has far as my depression is concerned, I took the steps to get help by going to my psychiatrist, explaining to him the severity of my depression, taking his advice to voluntarily admit myself in the hospital, went through every therapy group while in the hospital, went through 3 weeks of intensive outpatient therapy, going to the weekly aftercare depression support group, and now going to alanon to get support and learn the tools to take care of myself despite the effects his alcoholism has on my life (which I am also learning that the alanon tools are effective for dealing with symptoms of depression too). I am trying so hard to learn to take care of myself, which is something I have never done in my life. I have always put myself last. AH has always said that I've been codependent on him, and that he wants me to learn to find happiness from within, and to be an independent person, and be an equal partner in our marriage. But the moment I show any signs of stepping out and being independent, he freaks out. He didn't like the fact that I went into the hospital. He refused to come see me the entire time I was there. He didn't like the fact that I took it upon myself to reach out and find an alanon group. It honestly feels like he doesn't like the fact that I am doing whatever I can, to help myself get better emotionally. Even though he says he wants me to get better, he acts like he wants me to stay sick. His actions just don't match his words. I am at a loss, and am unsure what I need to do at this point. I fear that no matter how hard I try, that in his eyes it isn't going to be good enough, and that he will end up filing for divorce anyways. I certainly don't want that, but I fear it is inevitable. Part of me wants to stay and do my part to make things better, but another part of me feels like I should go ahead and find a lawyer and file for a divorce before he does. I have a lot of anxiety right now just thinking about my options, and I feel stuck, because I don't know what the right decision is for me right now.
I am really hating my life right now. If you got this far, thank you so much for taking the time to read my ramblings. I had to get all of this out so I could gain a better perspective on everything, and also so I don't stuff my feelings like I usually do.
Kimmy
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Kimmy
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
It certainly does sound as if you have had your share of difficult times and I am glad you are seeking support and recovery. Yes, al anon tools do help with depression and they also allow us to find our self esteem and the right direction for our lives.
I am glad you shared and just wanted to say that regardless of how the marriage goes you will still need to find recovery for yourself so that you can build your life.
Please keep coming back here and attending your local meetings.
You do not need to make any major decisions for the first 6 months to a year. Keep an open mind, Live your life one day at a time, focus on your own inner self, attend meetings, break the isolation, use alanon tools and your life iwll unfold in a positive direction
awww girl..... we have been through many of the same things. The only difference, is that I went through all those issues with 2 different husbands and 2 other fiances. The only thing I know for sure, is that at least for me, breaking up just means I end up with the same kinds of men, and I bring the same problems with me.
I don't have any solutions, but one thing that has helped me with depression is "fake it till you make it" that is, act happy and eventually you will feel that way. A couple things I have learned about having young kids: it's easy to waste their growing up years fretting about my adult relationships, and meanwhile the years are flying by and opportunities to play and have fun are lost everyday. It seems like they will be little forever.... but one day I woke up and realized my oldest daughter is about ready to graduate and leave the nest.
It's fall and there's tons of things we can do with our kids to have fun and build bonds and keep our minds off the junk with our men.... that's what I am gonna focus on, do you want to try to do the same and we can see if it helps?
Well Kimmy, I will say this for him - he's doing a fine job of taking YOUR inventory and knowing exactly how YOU should do or feel - makes me kinda wonder how well he does at figuring out his own stuff....
There is a quirky old saying that we "don't go to the hardware store for a loaf of bread", and your post really highlights this.... The likelihood of us getting emotional support or validation from an active A is not very high..... My sponsor used to tell me to "try seeing your A with a large SSS stamped on their forehead, that stands for SICK, SICK, SICK"
You are responsible for your relationships - with your kids, and whomever else... it is not his place to judge, nor tell you how that relationship is to be.... You're beating yourself up at the moment, or (at least) allowing him to emotionally beat you up....
All I can offer is two things: 1) consider the source; and 2) try doing something nice for Kimmy today...
Take care Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Oklahoma mom ~ yes, I definitely want to try that and see if it helps.
Tom ~ you know it is funny that you say that about him taking my inventory because I just read something either in ODAT or C2C today about taking our own inventory instead of others, and it made me think that that is exactly what AH is doing, taking MY inventory. I will tell you exactly what our marriage counselor told my AH one day in therapy, "When it comes to figuring out your own stuff and your own emotions, you suck."
Currently AH is not drinking, that I know of anyways. He certainly hasn't been drinking here at the house. I guess what I am dealing with now is a dry drunk, because I am certainly not getting any emotional support or validation from him at all. I like what your sponsor said Tom. I will have to remember that.
I know I am responsible for my relationship with my kids and anyone else in my life. It just infuriates me when he judges me, and tells me how I do everything wrong, or don't do enough of xyz, or whatever the case is. I don't tell him how to be a parent to our children, and I hate it that he does tell me how to be one. It's like he treats me like his third child, telling me to do this, telling me not to do that, just so demanding. I actually told him the other day when he got demanding about something that I don't respond well to demands, that if he wanted me to do something for him, to ask nicely, and then I would consider if i wanted to do what he is asking of me. In my heart of hearts, I know I am not those ugly things he says about me. I know that I am doing the best that I can at this moment. It may not be 100% according to his standards, but it is 100% according to mine, and that is all that matters. I know that my 100% could look different today, or tomorrow, or a week, month, or year from now. I know I can't stop him from taking my inventory and judging me, but I know I can certainly change my reaction to his judgments, which is something I REALLY need to work on, because I tend to lose my temper when he judges me like that. I need to have enough self control to look at him and say "Hmmm, you may be right", and just walk away. Easier said than done, but I will eventually get there.
Thanks for your kind words and support.
Kimmy
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Kimmy
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
You have so much on your plate right now and getting to know you in the meetings and seeing how much you are progressing gives me hope! yes even as a newbie here you give me hope. I am not sure I have met anyone in this program that was/is so totally committed as you are to your recovery so early on. So first of all know this you never know what you will say and share in this program weather you are new or an old timer that can change someone elses life. And watching you progress is an incentive for me to work my program even harder. So I thank you for that I will tell you and maybe i have already shared this with you but here goes again........ I was absolutly hopeless by the time i hit the doors of alanon ( at least i thought i was) like you i was chronically depressed, filled with anxiety, I was agaoraphobic and didn't leave my home for over a year. If we would have had insurance I am sure i would have been hospitalized. Also I was in constant physical pain from 2 major car accidents that only exacerbated my depression and anxiety. I was the breadwinner in our home. My husband had become disbabled. I am fortunate enough that my husband isnt an A and is a kind, loving and patient man. The poor guy ran himself ragged trying to hold everything together and Never Ever said a cross word to me or blamed me when we literally lost everything except our home. But Man oh man I sure got judged by others. My eldest daughter moved home for a summer and thought she could "tough love" me back to normalcy. Of course that didn't work and when she moved out she vowed never to return because I was no longer the mother she knew. You'd think that would phase me or snap me out of it, losing the love and respect of my beloved daughter. But I was absolutly numb. Until I found alanon which gave me my life back and I say that in all seriousness. In your case Tom is spot on when he said your husband is really good at taking your inventory. Of course as that stops him from having to look inside his own self. Your husband tells you he wants you to get better, save the marriage etc ....as long as you do it on HIS terms, heaven forbid you go outside his boundaries of what he thinks will make you better by attending alanon or spend a day focusing on yourself. As a dry drunk that just means he has all the same ole behvaiors just without the booze. So he doesn't physchically hurt you anymore he sure knows all the right buttons to push with you that hurt you emotionally. You do have to take into consideration the source of who is placing the blame on you and as suggested see him with the word SICK tattooed on his forehead. Kimmy you have made such incredible progress please don't let his threats and ultimatums stop you know. The healthier you get the healthier your children will get. When you have the energy do have fun with your kids. But you do it in your way not your husbands. I dont know how your marriage will end up either what i do know is you have worked so hard to work your way out of hell ( been there) don't let anyone stop you from being the person Your HP wants you to be. You and your children are your 1st priority get the focus back on that. From experience I can tell you the A will do all they can to keep you from changing...they don't like it, it makes them take respondsibilty for thier own actions. Like I said before your husband wants you better but again on HIS terms not on yours. You have to do what is right for you! Hang in there Kimmy... you are doing a phenomenal job Blessings
Xeno ~ your response absolutely touched my heart. I am sitting here in tears as I carefully read your caring words. I had no idea that my progress has had such an impact on you. Thank you so much for sharing that with me, because that just made my day. :) What you said about AH wanting me better on his terms is so right. A lot of his issues with me is that it is two steps forward, one step back, and according to him, I am not getting better quick enough. I even told him this morning that it is up to me to get better, and I will do it in my own time frame, not anyone else's. Believe me when I say this Xeno, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he can say or do that will stop me from moving forward with my recovery. I have been sick for most, if not all of my life, and my old ways of dealing with life weren't working for me. It was making me sicker. Well, I am TIRED of being sick. I am TIRED of letting people run all over me. I am TIRED of bending over backwards, and twisting myself into a pretzel to try to please everyone else. I am DONE! It is time to take care of KIMMY! It is time to get ME healthy. It is time for ME to speak my mind and set boundaries when people try to run all over me. It is time for ME to please ME and make ME happy, regardless of what people may think, say, or do.
Kimmy
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Kimmy
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
"but yet, I still love this man, and want to spend the rest of my life with him"
I think it's hard for outsiders to read all the other verbage in your post about your AH & your relationship, and then try to fathom why the above line (from you) makes any sense.... I truly believe that this is the real power of Al-Anon, and OUR recovery - we start to be able to reconcile these two things..... Not always with the result of staying, and not always with the result of leaving....
The above is another great example of why places like MIP are so special - you don't get judged for your feelings here - heck, many/most of us have been in the exact same place..... Often times "non-program" people (i.e. family, friends, etc) cannot begin to comprehend or understand - no matter how good their intentions....
I use the technique of "gentle reflection" on myself.... Try reading your post back to yourself, and put yourself in the shoes of wanting to help your best friend, who is going through this.... It's a process, but bottom line is we learn (or re-learn) how to love ourselves through all of this...
Take care Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Kimmy, Remember even if the A is not using, he is NOT on a program of recovery. He still is very active in his disease. We NEVER know if they are using or not for sure. Not our business.
His actions you shared prove this. He is mentally abusing you. NO ONE deserves to be treated like this.
Of all the people in the world who we should be able to depend on to love us, it is our mate.
The disease is running wild in him, and you are very sick from it.
When we feel well we don't take nor listen to this bolony. Ignore what he says about the kids and your relationship. It is all his disease talking. That is the lowest for anyone to attack a parent as to their kids not caring about them. PURE EVIL.
I am sure he is afraid you will get better by doing the things you are doing. He does not want you to feel better. A's want us to be weak so they can drag us down with them.
The more down he can put you, he can control you.
If a person felt well and their self esteem was high, they would tell him,"how dare you speak to me this way!" Also make a boundary that if they don't treat you with respect, then not to talk to you at all.
You have come a long ways. The disease loves to beat us down when we are feeling better.
I don't care if you were sitting on your recliner watching tv eating ice cream all morn, NO ONE has the right to tell you what you were doing was wrong.
We don't get married to tell each other what to do, we get married becuz we love how the other person is.
Neither partner has the right to be the others jailer. Everyone has a right to their own life.
Like Tom said, "consider the source."
Wow I just read you were physically abused by him. Ok totally different path now. My A got violent after the brain surgery. I immediately went to a womens abuse support group. By all you have shared, that may be the primary part of your situation to focus on. Abuse.
The way he is acting is leading to worse coming. He is going over the boundaries I am sure he learned in therapy.
Again it is all about control. Whenever you start to feel better, attend therapy, work on Al Anon skills, go to the hospital, He is NOT in control over you.
Now he has you beaten down, hoping you will quit everything. Believe me that would be the worst thing to do.
I would love to give you a dose of self esteem to stand up to his bolony and mean it. You don't have to remind him of ANYTHING. All he says is bolony. YOU know you play with the kids, have your own relationship with them. What he thinks does not matter. What anyone thinks doesn't.
Fact is honey I bet you any amount of money, if you were not with him, and had no contact, I bet you would get stronger and stronger and wonder why in the world you ever put up with the diseases crap.
I believe it is mostly HIS disease that is making you depressed and sick.I am saying that as I was a very happy person, doing great until my AH got very sick again. Then I found myself sick again, depressed and on anti depressants.
Once he pulled the calling me lazy one day. ONE day. I lit into him and he never tried that one again.
You have done nothing to deserve this treatment. As you shared you have given a lot. And what did all your giving bring you to hon?
What is going on that you think you deserve this crap from anyone?
I can tell you, to feel better, I found when I did something, made a step towards change, I felt in control. I planned how to make it alone, I planned how to move to where I would not lose my home.
I am not saying you leave. I am saying I hope you continue to work on your life feeling better and don't let anyone stop you.
Actually if one is threatened all the time about divorce, maybe one would feel better if they did keep a journal of,"ok if we got divorced I would need to: and have a plan.
I mean what is the worst that would happen if he did decide to divorce?
I know you are hurting so much. The man you love is very sick, saying horrible things to you. I have been there. I am there. Sometimes I think about all I did all I worked hard on, but he threw it all away. BUT I know he is sick. I can do nothing for him.
Anyway please know I care. love and hugs,debilyn
-- Edited by lyndebi on Thursday 21st of October 2010 03:51:47 PM
Debilyn ~ Thanks for your kind words. As I was sitting here reading your words, I was watching Dr. Phil, and it was about ending the silence on domestic violence. All I can say is WOW! Boy did that show hit home. Yes, he is being abusive. And no, I don't deserve that kind of treatment, no matter what I've said or done. Now with that said, I am having trouble reconciling with myself as to why I still love him when he has given me more than dozens of reasons to hate him, and why I want to stay married to him. I am trying to understand why I feel like I deserve this crappy treatment. I know intellectually, I don't deserve it, but something is making me stay, hoping things will improve.
Like I said in an earlier response, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he can say or do that will keep me from continuing to go to my depression support group, my therapist, and my local alanon group. I know, that I know, that I know those three things above is what is going to help me to get healthy, so I can feel better about myself, and hopefully to reevaluate where I am going with my life, and who I want to be in my life. And you are so right, he probably is afraid I will get better, because then I won't be so weak that he can keep my under his control. He can ridicule me all he wants for going to alanon, and whatever else I choose to do to get healthy, what is important is how I feel about what I am doing and where I am going. He can have ill feelings about those things all he wants, that is his problem, not mine. I am not doing the things I am doing to get his approval. I am doing them because these are the things I believe that I need in my life right now, and it isn't his place to tell me I can't do them. He has never came out and said I can't go, but he sure has put me down and ridiculed me to try to get me to second guess my decision. I have not once second guessed my decision to go to alanon, depression support group, and my individual therapist. I AM getting stronger, because I can feel it, and I can tell by my actions. Two months ago, if all of this about going to get help, and the threat of divorce happened, I would've fallen apart, begging him not to do this to me, crying to him saying I will do better, falling all over myself to declare my love for him and letting him know I can't live without him, and I would've promised that I would stop going to alanon and my support group, all to be given just one more chance. This time around I told him that if getting a divorce is what he wanted to do, then go for it, because I wasn't going to try to stop him, because nothing I could say or do will change his mind. I was hurt by his words, as well as angry, but after sharing about it in my depression support group, I was able to come to terms with what was going on, and actually felt a sense of peace in the midst of chaos. I was and still am ready to face that situation if it indeed comes to our marriage ending in divorce. I know that getting a divorce is NOT the end of the world, and that I will be able to move on and live my life. It probably won't be easy, but that is life.
Kimmy
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Kimmy
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Debilyn said: Fact is honey I bet you any amount of money, if you were not with him, and had no contact, I bet you would get stronger and stronger and wonder why in the world you ever put up with the diseases crap.
This is sooo true, I split with mine about 4months ago, thought he was the love of my life blah blah blah....what a load of BS...the love of my life would not treat me like that...I was in denial.
I believe it is mostly HIS disease that is making you depressed and sick.I am saying that as I was a very happy person, doing great until my AH got very sick again. Then I found myself sick again, depressed and on anti depressants.
Once again..so true..I didnt end up on antidepressants but who knows another couple of years and I probably would have....
Debilyn, I love reading your posts, you are an inspiration!!!
