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Hi all, I'm still very new to Al Anon but between what I've read on this board, what I've heard in the meetings, and a conversation I had with our marriage counselor (who is also a drug/alcohol counselor and also active in AA as an alcoholic), I feel like I am really starting to get this.
First, I posted last week about having a hard time with the "disease" concept. I got some very helpful replies from people basically saying "it is a disease, just accept that it is". But it was still something that I was having a hard time with. I discussed it with our marriage counselor yesterday (I saw him individually and not with my wife) and he explained that the disease concept is based on the fact that the alcoholic develops a physiological need to drink after a certain period of time--something clicks in their brain and they need the alcohol. As he said, at that point "the cucumber becomes the pickle", and once it is a pickle it's not going to go back to being a cucumber! (sorry, you have probably all heard this already but it was all new to me). In other words, once that happens, the drinker is an alcoholic. Some people can drink everyday for years and never have that physiological reaction and never become an alcoholic. Others can't. So that helps tremendously in understanding the disease concept.
The other breakthrough I feel like I've had is the idea of not "caring" if my wife drinks. I posted about that last week as well and the responses were extremely helpful. Basically, she's going to do what she's going to do, and there's nothing I can do to prevent it. Of course I care but I can't control her. And when I suspect she has, that is her issue and I need to not pry and not search through her purse and the car and the house for evidence and just take care of the kids and myself. I will live my life and I will love my kids and my wife's drinking won't do anything to stop that. I get it. And it really is such a liberating feeling.
The only complication in our situation remains our kids, and obviously the concern is that my wife's drinking puts them in jeopardy. I'm doing what I can to make sure they are safe but I need to develop some type of formal plan to make sure they remain safe. I'm hopeful that my wife continues with AA and continues to benefit from it. I really believe she's on the right path and doing the right things to stop.
Anyway, I'm just feeling excited this morning because this new way of thinking is so much different from what I've been doing for a couple of years now. I feel like a burden has been lifted.
Good for you! I am 3 months in I know just what you mean. I feel as if some kind of weight has been lifted and that even though my bf continues to drink, I don't feel like its my fault somehow. I am detached, with love from the drinking. I think you are correct in finding a way to keep your kids safe, and setting up a way to do that is being proactive. Keep on coming back, it works if you work it :)
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You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection. -Buddha
The past has flown away. The coming month and year do not exsist. Ours only is the present's tiny point. -Mahmud Shabistanri
congratulations, you are on your way to a much better way of life. I too hope your wife will stick with her program , but no matter what she does, at least you have a plan and program for yourself.
That was a good analogy that the counselor told you , but dont give up hope about your wife never being able to recover because as long as she sustains from alcohol, she can be whole again. You can never cure the disease, but you can halt it.
I dont have young children and that would be a delemna for me too. My brother was also married to an alcholic for over 25 years, there were some scary scenario's. The biggest problem was her driving when she was drunk with the kids in the car. I think I would set up a plan where the kids are never in the car when the parent is driving drunk, I know thats hard to accomplish, since the Alcoholic lies and can hide it. You have to be on the lookout constantly. I am apart from the XAH for two years but the last 6 years of our marriage, I never step foot in his car. I always drove my car. That was one of my boundaries. So many times, I forgot and didnt know he was as drunk as he was and got in the car and thought I was going to die. Many times, I made him stop(had to yell) and I got out.
Of course this is also where our HP comes into action, we must trust that. Keep yourself and your children safe and happy and keep coming back, as you know it works. Luv, Bettina
I am getting to the point where you are, too. Which is awesome!!
The biggest obstacle is the kids safety issue, as far as riding in the car!! Anyone know how to handle that one? Up till this weekend I would have told you, he won't drive drunk. But he blew that one out of the water. Now I don't know if he is ever safe to drive me and/ or my kids anywhere. Do you just adopt the attitude, "You might have been drinking, but I have no way to know so I will have to assume you have, and not let you drive us." ?? That could lead to a ton of conflict quick.
''the alcoholic develops a physiological need to drink after a certain period of time--something clicks in their brain and they need the alcohol. As he said, at that point "the cucumber becomes the pickle", and once it is a pickle it's not going to go back to being a cucumber! (sorry, you have probably all heard this already but it was all new to me). In other words, once that happens, the drinker is an alcoholic. Some people can drink everyday for years and never have that physiological reaction and never become an alcoholic. Others can't'' .............................................................................. i have never heard it explained like that before, i'm learning new things all the time on this site!
its great you feel the way you do about it all, i cant wait to get to that poiint where i can fully detach myself ... xx
That is the biggest complication in my case is the kids. To make sure they are safe, I have to know if my wife is drinking...to detach, I have to not be so engaged with my wife's drinking. So it is a contradiction and it is tricky. If others have worked through a similar situation I would love to hear some tips, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not fully there yet...it's still a process...but at least I understand the concepts, and that is big for me.
Thank you so much for your post. I'm just starting out on this journey and trying to detach with love. I loved the cucumber/pickle analogy! Stay strong and take care of those kids and yourself!
I devised a way to keep my son safe from riding in a car with my A driving, but of course different things work for different people. I told my A, "I don't know whether you've been drinking or not, and it's not my business. But because I have no way of telling, I have to keep our son safe. I know that drinkers lose their sense of judgment and think they're safe when they're not, so even if you tell me you haven't been drinking, it's not safe for me to trust that. So I need to be the only one to drive our son anywhere." Fortunately my A is not combative. Of course he denies that he ever gets drunk, but that's beside the point. I think his "official" position (which he never said, but which he implied) was, "She's a nut who thinks that my innocent drinking is a problem, but whatever, I'm not going to argue with her because she'll never back down, it's too much hassle, so I'll just let her drive." After all, it saved him a lot of trouble.
The other part of the hassle is that then you have to do all the driving, and sometimes it's a big amount of trouble when he's just sitting there like a lump on the sofa. But of course it's worth it. Still, it drove home to me how much his drinking was putting me to extra work.
I haven't been on this site for a while and I am so glad I came here today. There are lots of great threads! I wanted to respond about your wife's drinking.
I wanted to relate a personal story. My AH is at about 3 months of sobriety. As I began to get into Al Anon and on this site, etc., I began to understand that I needed to modify what I "expected" from him. Also that it is possible he might relapse, although I needed always to keep my hope up. I believe he has had one relapse, although I can't be sure because, as an A, he lies about alcohol.
After beginning to understand all these things, I realized I needed a plan. If he appears to have been drinking, I will do "X" and I will tell him in advance what I will do. What I decided is that I will drive him to a hotel and ask him to stay away from the house that night. When he was sober and at an appropriate, quiet time, I told him about this plan.
Privately, I even planned if things got bad enough (say, he comes back to the house and demands to be let in), I would demand that he leave and be willing to call the cops if necessary. Also that I would get a locksmith, change the locks, and go to a divorce atty right away (I even chose one) about what my rights are -- not necessarily to file for divorce but to protect myself. Since he has always done the finances, I got him to give me all our passwords, account numbers etc., so I could protect our family financially if necessary.
Once I established that plan, I felt so much better. Thankfully, I have not needed to use it. But just knowing I have options that DON'T include putting up with A behavior made me feel better. Could you think about establishing a "plan" of your own? It doesn't need to entail a plan to leave, just whatever makes you feel more in control.
Whatever you do, driving drunk with your kids can't be tolerated. You need to establish this boundary and be willing to follow up on it. Meanwhile, do all the driving yourself, get others to take your kids places, etc. If she crosses that boundary, you need to know what you will do BEFORE that happens. And you may want to communicate that to her in a moment of sobriety. When I told my A about my plan to take him to the hotel, he just said "I understand" -- no arguing! That way, should it occur, there may be less chance of a big blowout argument.
Great awareness, and good for you on your progress!
The physiological side was explained to me at one of my ex-AW's treatment centers, and helped me understand why it is so hard for A's to quit "cold turkey" without help...
Our bodies naturally create endorphins.... Excessive alcoholic intake kills the creation of these endorphins, but the alcohol "fools" the brain/body into believing that endorphins are being created.... When an alcoholic stops drinking, the body goes into panic mode, as there are no endorphins being created (it takes several months for them to re-create themselves naturally)..... The body is craving this endorphin, and thus we have that physical dependance on alcohol....
Part of me says "so what", as knowing the "why" doesn't really change anything, but this simplistic explanation of the physical side of things helped me put it into perspective, and also helped me accept alcoholism as a disease...
Glad you are here
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I have found that for my kids sake, I just have to assume that he has been drinking. So that means full time daycare (even when he is laid off in the winter) and I always pick them up as I will never be able to know when he has been drinking . It does still make me mad at times, to know that I cannot depend on him to be a responsible adult and watch his own kids, but the alternative (to leave them with him and have something happen) is simply unbearable. For my own peace of mind, I make arrangements to ensure my kids are safe, and I leave him to his disease and detach. He thinks this is just great (gives him more time to drink all day long), but in the end, he would do it anyway, so what is the difference. At times it does seem like I am a single parent, but it also is empowering, knowing that I am functioning well as a single parent, and when the day comes that I decide to leave, I will be just fine...
Great job on getting the concept that alcolism/addiction is a disease. It is actually genetic an none of us knows if we have the gene if it will kick in or not. In my family my father total alcoholic along with all his sisters, one my mothers side all my uncles alcoholics. For my brother and sister that gene kicked in and they became alcolics/addicts. My husband also comes from a highly addictive family. We moved our children away from the chaos when they were young not to sever ties with the family just so they were not involved in the daily drama and tramua and it was daily. We never had much liquor in our home, maybe for a special occasion but thats about it and no drugs for sure. Think we were surpised our son became an addict? We were FLOORED thinking surely we had broken the cycle. But our son clearly drew the genetic short straw, our daughter did not...they were raised in the same home we were very involved parents thought we did all the right things. But really no one says "gee I want to become an alcoholic when I grow up?" Of course not. Honestly once I understood the disease concept I was able to have compassion for the A. They have hopes and dreams just like us that are never going to come true until they seek recovery. They know how much they are hurting thier loved ones and they loath themselves for it and drown themsleves in booze or drugs. Inside the feel unworthy, unloved all the things we feel because they are so emotionally detached from us. Well that was probably more than you wanted to hear huh? I tend to ramble lol Obviously keeping your children safe is of utmost importance, pray on it and listen or watch to where HP guides you in that situation. You will find your answer Blessings
