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Wow, good question... I do know we are supposed to let happen what will happen, but if I found my A in that situation, I would probably take him to the hospital if I could, if he would let me.... I am not sure if that is the "right" thing, so that is just me. I am sure people who have way more experience with this will have better ES&H about it...
This is a tough one, and a question that reinforces that there are very few "black & white" answers when dealing with addictions....
On the one extreme, one could argue that EVERY situation with an A is life or death, and so why wouldn't we rescue them each and every time they go to reach for a drink?? On the other extreme, we could say "detach, detach, detach", and allow them to suffer the consequences of their actions - up to and including death. I think it is fair to say that the best answer falls somewhere in between these two extremes....
Personally, I don't think the authorities have a very good track record at being able to do something to a person who doesn't want help.... If your brother is sane (with the obvious exception of his addiction), then he may well have the "right" to live (or die) as he sees fit - as cold as that sounds.... We can sometimes get our A's into treatment centers - kicking and screaming - and there ARE some (not all) who will take them that way - but not sure how much good that we are really doing....
One of the most challenging things for us, in our respective journies - is to allow the A the dignity of choosing their own path....
Like most - when the situation was clearly life or death, I would likely intervene as I could, but when & where that line is might be difficult to comprehend....
Take care Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I've seen similar questions arise, too, in regards to letting the A just go out and drive drunk. Obviously a danger to themselves, but on top of it, a danger to the innocent public, as well. And I've heard many say if they know their A has taken off to drive drunk, they'll call the police. Whether they make that an anonymous phone call or not is up to them.
One thing that came to mind for me was to call the National Suicide Prevention hotline - because to me, that combination is suicide.
The question, though, is whether the A is taking that combination knowing how lethal it can be with the intent of killing himself, or if it's pure negligence.
If the A is your spouse or a blood relative, you may want to call the doctor on the prescription and let them know what's going on and your concerns.
It is sticky, though, because it does come to a point where it's like you're meddling in this person's affairs and possibly taking away their right to choose what they want to do with themself. Just be aware should you choose to step in and intervene that you need to be prepared for what consequences may come.
I agree that he needs to be able to follow the path of his choice, even if that is one of death, but is alcoholism the only disease that people just take a step back and let it happen.
I cant think of any other condition where this would be the suggestion.
I went thru this, when XAH came out of two weeks in rehab, they prescribed Prozac, of course he started drinking again , so now he discovered the high of drugs and drinking together for the first time, he never was a pill popper, it was booze all the way. He admitted that he liked this kind of high.
Now he was falling all over, he fell down the stairs, we went out to dinner and he passed out face down in his plate. He almost choked to death in his sleep, had to call the paramedics, they just lectured him.
So I said to myself, "Oh hell no" this will stop, one vice is enough, so I found the bottle of prozac and poured it down the toilet. We had the same internist, so I called Dr. Rueben and told him what I did and he said "good." Alcohol and Prozac, a lethal combination. XAH was attending a 30 day outpatient rehab, from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm, he would drink as soon as he was out each day. He told his counselor I threw away his prozac, and she wasnt happy with me. " She said what is your wife a professional? I didnt care, I was the one living with the chaos of prozac and vodka. My home had become a crazy assylum, more?. In all the 26 years of marriage, the A never stopped drinking , ever. Except for the days he spent in rehab and detox. He has been to detox 3 times, He has been in every ER room in the San Fernando Valley, he was in lockdown for one week and spent 3 weeks in rehab, then the 30 day mandatory out patient day program. Where they have one on one counseling, group therapy, crafts, yoga, meditation, you name it they had it. He never stopped. When an alcoholic wants to stop , they will. I dont understand what you mean by legal help. There is nobody that can stop an Alcoholic.
I guess when I say legal help, I mean calling his PO. His body is one big bruise. both knees are skinned up. He was passed out on the kitchen floor the other day with about 30 pills scattered on the floor. Who knows if he spilled them, or tried to take them, but was too drunk to get them in his mouth. He won't talk about his drunks, and most of the time denies even being drunk the next day.
Last night he says he was attacked. Could've been, but very doubtful. This isn't a bad neighborhood. Someone on the street said they have see him sprawled out in other yards on the way to get more beer, so he would be an easy target. He went with the cops to get checked out, and a emergency hold was placed on him so they could do a psych evaluation, but he's a master at telling authority what they want to hear. He had to get stiches in his hand. There was blood all over the kitchen floor.
Been there more than once. ex AH od'ed on heroin twice and was zapped back.
He more recently was so drunk and on pills that he cut his own hair, was falling off his bike all the time then fell down a flight of cement stairs up to his apt.He was trying to kill himself.
What saved him? Prison.
Sadly part of this horrible disease is their coming so close to death several times until they accomplish it.
Who are we to make that decision for them, or decide well I am stepping in this time? I KNOW. It hurts my heart to think about it. They are the ones who hate the disease so much they want to die, or hurt so much they don't care about their own well being.
You guys have suffered a horrible loss. My dad (adopted me as an adult) lost his son to him doing up a bunch of drugs and getting on his motorcycle. Dad tried over and over to keep him ok. But he could not handcuff himself to him to save him. awful. Then we lost mom about 4 months later!
We have no control over them and the disease. Of course we feel that drive to save them, we love them! Even as distant as I am from ex AH, my friend all my life, if he called messed up in a horrible situation, I would have to turn away and not save him. It would be so hard believe me.
I have seen the nighmare and gone thru it so many times hon. I did get the call.I did end up a widow with two kids becuz my first A got too drunk and ran over. "come to the hospital, Eds been in an accident and he isn't going to make it." I hear that still over and over.
How many times did i drag him home, how many times did I get him out of scarey situations?Did no good.
It really comes down to a personal decision. For me it was a learning process of saving him until I realized he had or has to save himself. I save him one time or 20 times, he still oded on heroin, he still drove his van into a power pole putting out half a small city.
We cannot save them. Hate this disease.
Unless we put them in locked facility, which takes soooo much to accomplish, or if they go to prison, that is the only way we can stop them.
My heart goes out to you so much. He is a mess, a drunk, plus he is grieving loss. My A lost his brother to liver failure. The whole time his bro was in the hospital with me sittingh next to him, AH was doing up heroin. Then was drunk and doing whatever he could get his hands on to present in prison for dui.
Which I PROMISE you, sadly, very sadly, he will use and drink the day he gets out. He is not in recovery. two years of prison will not stop him.
This is my experience. Now I am crying. gads. sending you hugs and love, debilyn
face to face meetings, GEtting Them Sober/book/message board, chat room,meetings here. we care
I was just wondering if you have ever caught him in a somewhat sober time? Have you asked him what he thinks about detox and rehab?
Am remembering he is pretty young? I don't mean pushing anything on him, but more JUST once for your peace of mind, bringing him a phone number for AA. Or get literature for rehab available that is affordable etc.
Just leave it at his place.
Then you know you have done all you can. Hon I took my A to rehab and detox I mean hours and hours away, only to have him get sober and get the veterans van back home the next day.
I fought to get him into rehab, only to have him come home days later.
Anyway this just went thru my head. sending you love,debilyn
I hear the analogy used of "what if our A had diabetes, or some such thing?". Well, to keep things on an even keel - let's go with that one.....
So your A has diabetes, and refused to take his insulin.... what are your options?? Force feed him the insulin??
I dunno - I am definitely no expert here, just offering my experience.... perhaps, even in such a simple act of calling his PO, you might be doing something that he could very easily do..... perhaps his "bottom" includes his need to truly & honestly ask for help himself....
Many A's, once they are sober, do tell honest life stories of how they appreciated the "tough love" (normally after the fact), as it helped them reap their own consequences.... Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I can only tell you in my experience the times my son has OD'd I was one the phone to 911. I was not going to watch him die. Good luck with getting any kind of legal hold on him is all i can say. The last time my son OD'd he was having like what looked at were mini strokes...called 911 in the moments my son was able to talk he said he was trying to kill himself. Said that in front of us, in front of the police and in front of the paramedics, it was a annotated in thier reports. When he got to the hospital I INSISTED that the Psych crisis team be brought in as he was trying to commit suicide and needed an intervention. This took hours and hours during which time the hospital kept trying to get us to take him home but we refused until he was seen by the crisis team. By the time the team got there my son was almost sober and completly coherent and denied he ever said that. And despite all the evidence to the contray the crisis team took his word for it and refused to hospitalize him. So like i said good luck with that. The cards are stacked against you. Sorry if this is a downer repsonse...this has just been my experience Wishing you blessings in your own recovery
My AH has drank things like rubbing alcohol, hair spray, fingernail polish remover in an attempt to get high when he couldn't get any vodka. I've always called for an ambulance or have taken him to the ER myself.
Aside from that, I really don't know that there is any thing more you can do...
