The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
But it happens when I'm not around and there is nothing i can do about it other than damage control.
She told me a few hours ago that "mommy calls me names and calls me fat (she's not at all) when she gets mad". What the hell am I supposed to do with that. I just told her it wasn't true, that when mommy gets mad she says mean things but to remember what I'm telling you now: "that you are the best little girl anyone can have, you are not fat and when mommy says things like that it's not your fault, it's her fault."
BTW...my wife doesn't really drink....occasionally she'll have a glass of wine but this stuff happens when she hasn't been drinking...if anything she's nicer when she drinks, which again is very infrequent.
My daughter went on to explain that she thinks mommy feels bad afterwards because "all of a sudden she gets really nice"......
Sorry can't be happy when stuff like this is happening. When it stops I'll be happy. Until then I'll have to content myself with moments (and maybe days) of happiness when this stuff isn't going on. We have our first therapy session for my daughter in 2 weeks. I hope she tells the therapist this stuff.
this is also case in point why I can't get divorced...unless I can get full custody, I can't leave me daughter alone for days at a time with someone who's capable of saying stuff like this. Mind you my daughter is a sweet, cooperative girl who's never given us a bit of trouble in any way.
this is breaking my heart and I'm powerless to do anything. My HP isn't doing 'xxxx' to help with this. I'm the only one who does anything to counteract this....hopefully the therapist will also.
-- Edited by canadianguy on Monday 27th of September 2010 12:06:16 PM
It breaks my heart to hear how brutal this disease can be on the children caught in its splatter zone. It sounds like you're doing a lot: getting therapy for your daughter, offering her reassurance when she needs it, thinking about your options. Although you feel HP isn't helping you right now, I still believe it's worth turning this over to HP. You never know when you will see HP working in your life, and this situation seems purpose built to turn over.
In my own experience, one of my greatest regrets, for which I owe an ammends, is to my child. Although I did my best at the time, I can see that I continued to allow the situation with the alcoholic cloud my judgement in parenting my child. Sometimes I wasn't listening to what my HP wanted to happen.
I hope you and your daughter can find greater serenity with the help of a HP.
I used to think HP wasnt helping me either, so I kept taking back the problem and attempting to handle it myself - problem with that is, we cannot make them stop what they are doing (u cannot control another adult) and "combatting" it might be doing more harm then good - bc u are fixated on what she is or is not doing, this also allows the kid to see our behavior (fixated on another & attemtping to control them - same as the manipulation she is clearly seeing now - 'mommy is nice after'). It is the manipulative dynamic that is sick and toxic to us (and keeps us involved in the power struggle with the A -- the struggle is within them, so let them have it and stop fighting about it).
See, I know very well how this feels bc I am an acoa and grew up in this insantiy. One parent might be saying ur so wonderful, while the other says I dont like you - or picking on us physically (which is already a huge issue in our society) and making us feel we are inadequate (bc as a child in this life - u take up for the one that looks like the bigger victim - unknowingly). There is a great book for young kids, (amazon - 1974 - what's drunk mama) it explains to them on thier level how to detach and not take on the responsibility of the parent's problem - which is exaclt what we do, we take it on and own it and think it is our fauilt they dont like us and do anything to get them to approve of us. And so the vicious cycle continues.
You canot come home and do 'damage control' and think its all covered. Just bc u tell her daily she is not what the mother says, the lil girl still might think it is so - I found as a kid I couldnt hear the positive words said about me, for some reason I clung onto the negative bc u cannot understand why its happening, so u just think u are bad and deserve it and believe them.
Kids emulate their parents. Get a solid program of your own and learn to detach with love. As long as u are fighting or combatting what she is doing, it is a direct reaction to what she is doing, thus she is still "controlling" your movements. Whatever it is we focus on most, is what our lives become. Focus on how to improve your life and detach with love from AW's issues, feelings- u cant change or control that, but you can control YOU.
It is hard to give it over to HP willingly surrendering the outcomes but the truth is we cannot control the outcomes, as long as we try, we are missing out on living our lives in the Now/reality. Kids in dysfunctional homes dont grow up with boundaries. Work on your program and work on discovering what healthy boundaries are for you, in ur life and in time u will be able to teach ur daughter how to detach with love, how to have healthy boundaries and how to love the self -but- not until you do it first. Then you will be truly giving her a chance at life too, with a parental mentor that shows her how to solve her own life's problems, giving others the dignity to figure that our for themselves, thus allowing her to know what a healthy relationship is. As u get healthy in program, u will have the ESH it takes to actually change.
Put it this way - if I focus on others (what they do or dont do), I lose myself in that. That is what this disease is, it wants us to feel responsible for others, so that we get stuck in enalbing (thinking, obsessing) about them. As long as I am stuck and blaming someone else, then I am now part of the problem too, choosing it and tossing off my own self responsibility/accountability. I can only be accountable for my own actions.
Right now she is seeing the manipualtive dynamic in all dysfunctional families. She sees you both upset and grasping at straws to throw around the power with. Right now she sees parents that are not happy and the kids in that life, well they try to own it for you both and make it better by being so - quiet, kind, cooperative, they are fearful and stressed and are tip toeing around trying to please you both by being their "best" and doing what gets them the most validation. So we learn to people please at an early age as part of our care taking role-owning other's responsibility. Figthing it, being sad about it, feeds the disease. Focus on what u can do to change to allow you to feel better right now or what u can change about the situation, right now and do that thing. This is all we can do, focus on one thing at a time and live and breathe and practise so that we can do it again tomorrow, detach from what u cannot change or control. If we fixate on the problems, we are not seeking solutions. Be the change you want to see in your world and then u will see many more choices. Everything is a choice. Be well and kind and gentle with YOU, kcb and working it.
-- Edited by kitty on Monday 27th of September 2010 01:18:36 PM
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
I dealt with this type of abuse as a child. I grew up in an insane household - mother was an alcoholic and an adult child of an alcoholic, and stepfather was an untreated alanon and rageaholic. My stepfather regularly called me fat and drew attention to my appearance, which I guess didn't meet his approval. I don't know if my mother ever told me I looked fine - all I heard and internalized was the negative stuff. I ended up struggling with eating disorders for years beginning when I was a teenager.
I agree with what has already been said. It is impossible to just do "damage control."
I had an abusive dynamic in my first marriage. Although I struggled horribly with guilt and uncertainty, my HP made clear to me what the right choice was. It's hard to let go and have faith - but for me, it was the only way to have peace. I couldn't fix my situation myself, but my HP could.
Sounds to me like you are a very good Dad, Sounds to me like you are helping build your daughter up, giving her self worth, and that is important, I am a Child Myself of Alcoholism.. Lost my AFather to the disease just 2 Nov/ers ago..
I know for me Growing up a "Girl" in that house hold I was completly Mixed up on alot of things, and when hormons hit, I was living in complete Insanity, and not just in every day life, but in my mind all the time...
For Me I can say that If I could go Back, If I could "Want" Just ONE thing that I Didn't have .... It would have been... A LISTENER... My Parents were so worried about hating each other, and one up'n each other, that when ask a questions it would just be dismissed or ignored...
So the fact that you are takin this time to "TALK" to your daughter is a beautiful thing and a huge Gift...I started to act out badly at a young age, because No One Would Talk to me, Give explanation, or acknowledgement... And it HURT...
I now have a son that is teens years this year, and My Husband is a "Binge Drinker" and can have moments of intense anger, not physical, just grouchy and mean... Before I started this program, I would make excuses for him to my son, I would say, Oh Daddy's just havin a bad day, or todays just not a good day to ask... I thought I was Helping him...
Today, when my son wants to know what is wrong with Daddy, (sober of course) I encourage him to ask... and sometimes it does make my husband then see, that what HE is doing is effecting Everyone... Not just him....
I had many disappointment in my life as a child, brokin promises were endless, and in being raised that way, I learned alot of hard lessons, and some that I am so grateful for... Your daughter is a Child is doing the best she can with what she has to deal with, and you being there with your shoulder will be a Huge Blessing in her life... My Father was a Full Blown Alcoholic at a very young age, BUT... In his defense, When I was Standing in front of him with a problem, he ALWAYS had an ear, which always sent me back to him... but sadly, he didn't get this gift till I was an Adult... Because my Father did not have the skills to be a parent, was never taught them by his alcoholic parents (Both)...
I never realized these things till I got to the walls of Al-Anon...When He Died, All I knew was Anger tords the "Woulda/coulda/shoulda... and what he didn't give me, Al-anon has taught me that he was Human and Made Mistakes, and sometimes at the cost of my feelings and dismay, was it fare? Nope, but He did the best he could with the skills he had...
And as for HP ... It took me along time, to STOP... THINK.... before I made Dicissions on the fly,(Control) when I backed up a bit, and started to REALLY & Truly "Turn it over" I seen my HP Start working for, My HP Now is the God of my Understanding... My HP when I got here was This Board & My F2F Group...BOTh have been nothing short of a blessing to me and my recovery...
Glad your Here, thanks for your post...
Please take what you like & leave the Rest :) Friends In Recovery Jozie
Frustrated as you sound, and I recall it well.... my sponsor used to remind me that my reality was the only relationship I can be in charge of with my kids was my own.... When stuff like you described would happen, all I really had the ability to do was to make sure my kids knew they were both loved and safe. Your daughter needs to know that from you right now.... Whatever does or doesn't happen between you and your A is secondary.....
My ex-AW would act out, and I would reassure my kids that they are loved and they are safe.... My ex-AW would leave for days/weeks at a time, and I would reassure my kids that they are loved and they are safe....
Just my experience.... and it worked, for the most part
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I do know a man who was in exactly this situation -- the mother was verbally and emotionally (but not physically) abusive. He separated from her and got sole custody of both his children. I'm not saying that's the answer for you, just that you might talk to a good lawyer to see what your options are. It's easier to make choices when you don't feel trapped in a difficult situation.
I too would hear from my grandaughter that my daughter would scream at her grandaughter) and say awful things to her. For a long time I would try and counteract whatever my daughter said to my gd. And before alanon I would try and talk to my daughter and ask her why she would yell at my gd.(All it did was create fights between us.) She lives 40 minutes away. My d can be a ragaholic without any alcohol in her ...Usually if things aren`t going her way it came out on my gd. Now my gd doesn`t tell me much because she fears repercussions between her mother and myself. I didn`t know what I didn`t know . The damage I was doing by creating wars with my daughter for asking her questions, till I went to Alanon last year. This child has been through hell and back. She knows nothing about her mothers drinking or druging or why her daddy is in prison. I can relate to your frustrations with asking your HP for help. I will continue to listen to others experience strength and hope and I hope that helps you too. She is lucky she has you!
I grew up much like how your daughter is growing up now. My father was an A My mother a ragaolic. When my mother left my father all that rage got turned on me Verbally..I wasn't smart enoug, wasn't pretty enough, was lazy, would never make anything out of my life Heaven forbid someone would compliment me! Believe me my mother would set them straight right then and there that whatever positive thing that said about me was definitly not true Physically - I endured frequent beatings, never knew what i could say or do to trip some wire in my mothers head that told her it was time for a beating and just like your daughter my mother was always nice to me afterwards as she would ice my bruses and pretty much give me what ever I wanted. I loved my mother despite all this as she was all I had and frankly thought this was how everyone lived. I knew no better. I wasn't fortunate enough to have a dad or any family member for that matter that I could turn to for understanding. What I do know is how it affected me and to be truthful I would have taken the beatings anyday over the verbal abuse. I grew up with absolutly no self esteem or self worth...none what so ever. As I got older I seeked out boys/men who treated me like trash because in my mind that's exactly what I was. Thankfully HP stepped in and brought me to my now husband who was the first person in my life that made me believe I was a worthy person. Married now almost 30 yrs and when those old tapes run im my head my husband always seems to know and knows how to bring me out of it. Again I am not sure what it is that is wrong with your wife as you've said she's not an A so I am guessing some sort of mental illness? Whatever it is she is abusing your daughter and your daughter needs you now more than ever. I know you can't divorce her right now for fear of not getting full custody so you are sticking it out until your daughter is old enough to choose. Trying to make your daughter feel beautiful and special is wonderful but I have to agree with what someone above said that no matter what anyone esle said it is the negative that stays with you. HP doesn't make people do or say bad things he gave us free will. You need to turn this over to HP fully and stop trying to take it back from him. Then listen and watch for the road HP is setting before you and take it. Might I again suggest as I am worried for your daughter a nanny cam or a voice activated recorder so that you have some ammuntion against your wife if it comes to the point she becomes more abusive towards your daughter. Abuse just like addiction is progressive. My mother didn't start out beating me, it came gradually. Please don't ever think the same thing won't happen between you wife and daughter. Honestly that is the best course of action i can adivse you to take. Blessings
It is my belief no one should put down anyone else and especially to a child.
To say it is mommy's fault, or blame the mother is abuse. Our mothers are our mothers. It is too hard on ones head and heart to have someone tell us our mothers are wrong, they are at fault,they have no worth.
Same with fathers. I NEVER put my sons bio father down to him no matter what. Never built him up either. Their relationship is their own. I do hope in therapy, your daughter will learn tools to deal with being treated like this by her own mother.
It is true, there is NO such thing as damage control here. I agree with everyone else. NO matter what you do or say will only make it worse. Which putting the mom down, blaming her does.
What our job is to be the best parent we can be. Listen to her, but you cannot control any of it.
A's are sick. Whether she is drinking or not is not the issue. It may help you to get books on how to talk to her about her mother being sick.
She is too young to understand that her mother is actually acting out how she feels about herself, has zero to do with the child.
YES eating disorders are rampant. I have shared before, there is NO question when she starts puberty this is going to escalate to dangerous levels.
I would invite you to talk about how you tell your daughter it is moms fault, to your therapist.
Maybe get some healthier tools as to what to do and say to daughter.
People will go to their deaths protecting an abusive parent. That instinct is strong. Putting her down is not helping.
I was not in an A family, but it hurt me when my parents would not talk to each other. so both would be quiet, trying to make life seem "normal." I gree up insecure, untrusting of love, unable to ever feel I belonged.
I blamed me. No matter what we say to someone, it does no good. They have to figure it out for themselves.
If she was with mom four days, you have shared mom is not always like this, plus then she is with you 3. Then she would have three days of none of mothers possible problems. The way you are not she has it 7 days a week. I don't understand how one can negate that fact!
Maybe in therapy things will come more clear for her and you. I hope so. At least then your daughter will have a chance at not so much damage from this situation.
Question, your wife has brought up divorce. Have you calmlly asked, ok if you want that, then what kind of custody would we set up? Pose the question with child not there, keeping calm?
Just some things for you to think about. btw I told my son to never tease sis about weight issues. Daughter did not have any, that is moot. She grew up loving herself in a healthy way.
There is no way this situation is going to produce a healthy person.
MY experience. I pray therapy is a huge help for you all.
Love,debilyn ps what are you doing for anti stressers????
You can always be pro-active and contact a lawyer and find out what your rights are when there is an abusive parent in the home. The courts do not deem the mother the main custodial parent anymore like they once did. Dads get full custody just as often as moms do now. I am doing split custody with my ex, and something I have learned is that I cannot control what goes on over at dad's house, but when he is with me, I can keep things as routine as possible and happy and loving. I am not giving you advice, but you can be proactive and find out what your rights are...
Thanks everyone...this is why i just can't "love life"....I can find happy moments, but the suffering is far too much to expect to be happy. I realize some suffer more, but is an "average life" too much to ask????? I think we delude ourselves into believing that everyone has it as bad as we do...I dont' believe that. I think we got screwed...and now my daughter.
When I'm home this stuff doesn't happen because the wife knows I wont' tolerate her talking to my daughter this way....If I divorce, my daughter would get a 4 day non stop dose of this. At least now, I'm here for support and to intervene.
I just hope she tells the therapist everything in the coming weeks. Maybe I can get her a law guardian.
Your wife sounds as though she is as unhappy as you are. She probably feels that you dont want to be there. No excuse I know but i bet she is a bit jealous maybe of the closeness you and your daughter share, my ex husband was a bit jealous of the closeness between our son and me, he isnt anymore but it was definately there, he even admitted it. I dont think you are doing anyone any favours by staying...it sounds as though nobody is happy...it might surprise you if you did leave that your wife and daughter would maybe build a better relationship together. My son and his father are the best of mates now, but there was a time when he was young that my husband was a bit jealous of him. Separating was the best thing for all of us.....its your choice but sounds like you are just going round in circles.
I was just thinking about something Yankee. I put me in your daughters place.
I would feel so guilty if I was inbetween my parents. Just hit me how she may take responsibility for you two not getting along. For her to see you take her side when things happen, that is almost inevitable.
Just something you may want to take into consideration.
Also remember we have no idea how they would do if you were not in the picture hon. But I do very much understand your wanting to protect her.
yes ((lyndebi))) I totally agree. I was that kid, in a dysfunctional situation living with people who were not emotionally available and mature - no the fights, the screaming, name calling - it is terrifying to a small child and this is the war of their life. Anger, pain, humiliation going around, the shame - it is an emotional soup of feelings that the adults are not taking responsibility for. The kid sees them pushing the power-energy of their feeelings all around the room and on each other. The kid does feel guilty and responsible and thinks -these jokers arent picking up the slack, I will do it and be the hero and thus get a lil people pleasing under my belt and you have another codpendent enalber acoa that will have to face themselves one day and choose another way of being or not and the cycle continues in another family.
Detach from what ur AW (or not A) does or does not do. I am not saying "love life" - I am saying love YOU as your own first priority. Then u will act more loving in general and your life will change as you devlop your own self respect. Then u will be a living role model for healthy living for your daughter and u will have your own program, ESH and experience on how to value the self - a lesson every single human person needs to know, if they want to be content, peaceful and fulfilled.
Until you are a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem. I didnt see much how cahnging me could help others, when I first landed back in program -but- it is obvious how when I am clamer, I am calmer to be around and I have the clarity to think for myself -by focusing on my needs and what I can change to empower myself- I am better in every way for every other person I come into contact with now. My felings have changed, my attitude has change and so have some beliefs and my perspective. I may have only changed me but I tell you what ~ that makes this an entirely new world and reality, I have so much HOPE today and that is something I did not have for 25 years. Why do I have hope now? Bc I have done the work: faced me, embraced me and change what I dont value now.
No one can stand up for you and feel for you and do this for you. You have to do it. However, a healthy sane parent is something tons of us here, never had. Be that awesome gift of a dad, be that role model and teach her how to empower herself, once you get it. You can do it, we all can if we set our minds to and get willing and become teachable. Let (the change) begin with you. We cannot know what ripple effect we will have on our lives and the lives of others. Try something new and different, you have to, if you want something new and different.
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
