When codependents cause harm - Al-Anon Family Group

lantana · Newbie

When codependents cause harm

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so sorry that you're going through this, and so glad that you've found this site. You have so much to contend with.

I don't know how much other help your brother is getting, but my guess is that he could benefit from a lot of professional support, both for his mental illness and to help him in the family situation. The system doesn't make this easy, I'm afraid. And it's a characteristic of some kinds of mental illness that the person has a very hard time acknowledging that there's something wrong and that they need therapy and/or medication. So there might be denial adding to the mix in there. But my observations are that when there are really serious problems, especially with mental illness, family members can't and shouldn't have to take on the full burden. So if you can get some social services for your brother (assuming he'll accept them), that would help both of you. In the long run I wonder if there is some kind of halfway house or group home that might be beneficial for him.

I hear your concern for your brother, and you sound like a very loving sister. It also sounds as if your family dynamic is that people are supposed to care for other people at the expense of themselves. I hope you can keep taking care of yourself too. That's very, very important. Do try to get to some face-to-face meetings. The general recommendation is to try six, so you can find a meeting that really works for you (sometimes the character of each can be different).

I've also benefited from the books of Harriet Lerner (The Dance of Anger, The Dance of Intimacy, etc.), which discuss how dysfunction in families works and what healthier choices look like. She talks about alcoholism too. That was when I began to see what had been happening in my own family.

Keep coming back -- there's much wisdom here!

lantana · Newbie

Thank you, Mattie, I will locate one of those books.

My brother, as many people with mental illnesses who have tried to self medicate, has a drug conviction which prevents him from qualifying for HUD housing. People with mental illnesses face a lack of services and access to even the most basic aspects of life, which is detrimental to them as well as to society as a whole. Of course it is a hard political sell: funding for programs which most people will not access and community based services for people generally unwelcome in the community.

These are related matters because my parents do what they feel is best from within their own addictions and perspective. Right now living here with them is the least terrible option for him because the only other available living situation would be a state hospital. His illness is such that he cannot live independently without a great deal of assistance, and that assistance is not available within our current societal parameters.

So.

He receives takes medicine, but pills do not even begin to address his needs. My parents are very traditional in many respects so anything which is perceived as interference in what they consider best for their son causes them to remove him from the offensive person or situation. Again, there are not options for him. He depends upon them for access to the few services available. And anything which threatens their perspective and their control over his life serves to isolate him further.

I read on here about detachment and I will try those techniques. Of course when I face each individual decision I have to weigh the harm to my brother from not contributing to the twisted enabling and codependent atmosphere to the damage I will do if I act in a way which will support him in the short term.

We cannot attend meetings because that would not be allowed in this household as 'there is no addiction problem to address.' Requesting permission to attend a meeting would only cause more harm. As long as my brother and I are dependent upon my parents for our shelter and our food and our transportation this is the reality.

One day I trust I will find employment which will enable me to live independently and meet my student loan obligations. Then I can begin to attend meetings to help myself and to find ways to discover every possible method for accessing services for my brother in preparation for the time when my parents are no longer in a position to provide him a home.

I am a bit wary of Al anon because of the prevalence of a reference to a higher power. The only way I can possibly reconcile my understanding of the world with that rhetoric is to just consider the higher power to be other people's free will and the innumerable events that might take place in our world which may assist in the alteration of a circumstance for the better.

I turned things over to God for many many many years. Nothing improved. Really bad things continued to happen. I am not saying I do not believe in a God. I am saying I do not believe in a God who directly helps us. And I have spent way too many years untangling dangerous religious rhetoric from my upbringing. My brother's mind is a mass of twisted up religious doctrines, interpreted to the benefit of what my father wishes to promote in his life. I can accept that there are things I cannot change, but I will not trust to a higher power to fix or help. I have an obligation, through the exercise of my autonomy and choice, to help where I am able. If I am to have any faith at all it has to be in the ability of other human beings to take steps and make decisions which will somehow filter out to help others. And since this is the only way I can believe in any sort of higher power on this earth I have an obligation to do the same.

I am well off topic. But I think maybe there are other people who feel as I do about all the higher power/God language which permeates this program. I need to be able to access what I can clearly see are its benefits, but there are aspects which, due to my personal experience with religious rhetoric and practice, are decidedly unhelpful.

maresie · ~*Service Worker*~

I grew up in an enmeshed, raging family and can well understand your concerns. I can also understand your reticence in getting involved in any program or course of skill skill building because of course you have already tried everything.

Boundaries are very very hard to learn when you come from a background like that but it is nevertheless possible to learn them. The idea is to practice them, be not that great at them, seek feedback fromother people who have tried and suceeded at learning them at a later age than others. It is indeed possible to make even your situation better not by fixing those around you (although your concern is certainly admirable). What is possible is to be sane even around people who act absolutely insane.

There certainly is a lot of help out there if your want it. Detaching is a real art, saying no when people rage at you is also an art. Not taking on the blame, chaos and raging is indeed difficult but is is certainly possible. I hope you will give al anon a chance. Turning it over is one way of looking at things, making active changes in the way you"cope' view and digest what's around you is another. There are ways to be very very conscious of how ill the people around you are and also ways to not allow it to devour you. One source is a book listed above, Getting them Sober, I believe that may well be a great resource for you in your current situation. If you can't have the book mailed to you directly perhaps there is another address you can get it. If not, there are resources online from the same author.

Maresie.

ESH · Senior Member

Your post made me think of dealing with someone who has borderline personality disorder. Here is a website that describes BPD pretty well:

http://www.bpdcentral.com/support/email.shtml

Here is a book you can find at a library, I felt it has the best description for dealing with a BPD person.
Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by M.S. Paul T. Mason and Randi Kreger

And this book describes what it is like to have a mother ("Momster") with BPD:
Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship by Christine Ann Lawson

ESH · Senior Member

Oh, and as far as using religion as a form of control (i.e. poisonous pedagogy), here is a book that addresses that. It isn't an easy read, either, because it has some (for me anyway) concepts that were difficult to absorb.

For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence by Alice Miller.

Again... you can most likely find these books in libraries... or go to Amazon.com and read some excerpts.

lantana · Newbie

Thank you very much for the reading suggestions. Information is a very useful tool. Thank you.

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

At the very root of everything, I have learned I am ultimately powerless over every person around me with myself being the only exception.

Good intentions or no, I cannot "help" others if they don't want help themselves. The best help I can provide is to stay the hell out of their way - mind my own business (and make sure I take the time to learn what really IS my business and what is not), and just take good care of myself.

There's always a possibility that as I get better, others around me might see the changes and start to get better, too.

That's probably not what you're seeking - I remember your questions from earlier posts. Hope you find what you're looking for, and you're always welcome back here.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I just wanted to affirm that the tools of Al-Anon are not restricted to those who believe in God. I myself am an atheist. Some people think of the meeting as the Higher Power, or of God as Good Orderly Direction. The way I understand it, there is an urge in all of us toward healthy living. That's why we recognize that the insanity caused by alcoholism isn't desirable or good for anybody. Underneath all the turmoil caused by addictions, upbringing, and all of that are basic human needs and values that tell us (when we can listen) what's healthy and what's not. Where those instincts come from -- people have different views. Some people believe from God, some from human development, some from other sources. But anyway, that's the kind of Higher Power I can understand -- an internal voice we all have urging us to live with serenity.

That's the way I look at it. I had a friend in AA who suggested another way of looking at it. A man said he didn't want to go to AA because people were talking about God, and he was brought up in an oppressive family that used God as a way of trying to blackmail and control people, and he hated any mention of God, however differently motivated. My AA friend said, "If you're lost in the wilderness for weeks and you're starving, and in the woods you meet someone you've always thought of an enemy, you'd still follow him as he showed you the way out." So that's another way of thinking of it. My view is that when I look at, for instance, some of the people on these boards, with their wisdom and insight and serenity, I think: Do I want what they have? I sure do.

The best to you, and I hope you can keep coming back.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.