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So, I messed up. I blew up at him. After a full 24 hours of the silent treatment, I asked him what he was so upset about. He said that "what [I'm] doing is really sh***y."
(What I'M doing??? So many possible responses to this, none of them constructive...)
I asked him what he thought I was doing! He said he didn't know. I told him what I was NOT doing: trash-talking him to other people, devising ways to get him to change...what I AM doing is trying to find a way to LIVE with him and deal with life in a healthy way. (So far so good, but...) Then I felt the need to let him know just how close I have been to packing up me & the kids and leaving him, and how thankful he should be that I'm still here...blah blah blah... I wish I wouldn't have said that. :( The whole "conversation" got really ugly. :(
He said "I knew who he was when I married him"...I said I knew he drank. I didn't realize he was an actual alcoholic. He said "well now you know." and stormed out of the room.
I was again crying, trying to make dinner, but I just couldn't. Very weirdly, he came back into the kitchen and asked me if I needed him to help with dinner at all (huh???? where did that come from???) and I told him he'd have to get dinner for him & the kids; I had to go. And I left. I had no clue where I was going, but I called my friend who also has a difficult marriage (she's older and WORLDS wiser) and went to her house and talked for a while. I just had to get out of his presence...I know it's probably not true but I just feel like he hates me now. It's painful to be in the house with him at the same time. He usually "punishes" me with his silence when he's mad, but never for more than a day.
I wonder if this will ever get better between us. I can't just run out of the house every time I'm hurt. How in the world do I deal with this? The atmosphere in our home was so much nicer BEFORE the fateful Alanon mtg. Intellectually, I know that's what he's going for. He's trying to make me miserable (...check) because I made him uncomfortable. But it just can't go on like this forever. He can hold out a lot longer than I can, though, and I don't know how to "ride this out" (the hostility) without crying, feeling the pain, being so miserable every day. I don't WANT to be affected by his mean-ness...but I'm human. Of course I'm affected.
Sorry for all the ranting. It just feels like a relief to just type this all out, even if no one reads it. I don't want to be all gloom and doom.
I didn't realize he was an actual alcoholic. He said "well now you know" he accepts that there is a problem? he came back into the kitchen and asked me if I needed him to help with dinner at all (is he uncomfortable and doesn't know how to deal with this but actually reaching out to you???)
I called my friend (mature reasonable thing to do, especially if the friend is in alanon)
went to her house and talked for a while (sometimes the alcoholic can't "hear" or understand us, we need to talk but maybe not to them at the time)
I know it's probably not true (that he hates me) ( your in reality regardless of your "feelings" )
because I made him uncomfortable ( he cares )
But it just can't go on like this forever ( you can only change you but when you change your circumstances change)
I don't WANT to be affected by his mean-ness...but I'm human. Of course I'm affected. ( yes we are affected that is why we need alanon)
Seems like a really positive basis for leaning, accepting and growing to make a very positive atmosphere for your family to me....I think offering to help with dinner and his accepting that he is an alcoholic are wonderful signs, be patient with yourself and him. Possibly you were given a phone list at the alanon meeting you attended. Please give someone a call, hopefully someone who has been in the program a while, that was hard for me to do, but I was very pleased when I did.
-- Edited by glad on Saturday 21st of August 2010 08:00:17 AM
Of course he's hostile - you're changing your behavior and he doesn't like it. You have the choice to deal with the "punishment" differently - now you know you can detach from it and take care of yourself.
You are human, you are perfectly imperfect, you will slip from time to time, so just be ready to acknowledge it and move on. Sometimes this is very difficult for me to keep in mind, but when I do acknowledge my humanity and forgive myself for slipping, I find that I gain a bit of peace.
I had no boundaries with my exAH - I bent over backwards trying to please him, trying not violate whatever the code of conduct that he expected of me each day. Suffice it to say that this code could change at a moment's notice without me having a clue, making it very easy for me to violate it without knowing it. Even though we are now divorced, it's still very easy for me to fall back into my old behavior patterns.
I have come to believe that setting and enforcing boundaries are the key to my recovery. It is hugely uncomfortable at times, but when I don't do it, I slip back into fear and self-loathing. The Al-Anon slogans (when I remember them ) help me refocus my attention - How Important Is It? Live and Let Live. Let Go and Let God - these simple tools, when I use them, help me detach emotionally from the disease and move forward instead of staying stuck in the same old crap.
It's OK to rant - this is a safe place to express yourself. No one here will criticize or judge you. Ranting here and receiving others' ESH (experience, strength & hope) validated my feelings and allowed me to gain some perspective and start healing.
Sorry for the rambling response - I hope you find some measure of comfort.
Please keep coming back and keep working it - you're worth it!
This is the dynamic of the Alcoholic/addicted - they need enalbers - so they can (try) to blame you for what they are doing. The A (is codependent) they need us more then we need them - they need an enabler to take up the negative feelings they are tossing around, in the hopes that you will emotionally blow up - then they jusfify to themselves - see they are the crazy one, not me, I am fine - and so they stay in denial of their own behavior - continuing to use/go numb and not be a part of reality. That is their choice.
We stand in wait, in fear, in guilt focusing on them and all of their problems. We too are codependent - we focus on them and what they are doing wrong for us. Neither the A nor the codependent enabler are healthy. Neithr of them takes responsibility for themselves. We cannot do it for them - we cant feel for them - give them feelings or take them away -- our feelings are our own reaction/response to own. No one can "make you feel". I repeat that bc in our English language - we actually do speak that way & it is dis-empowering and ludacris. The only person YOU can take responsibility for is YOU. We cannot change or control someone else - face it and adult will do what they wll do. You do have choices - u can choose to do something else - like when u left. Think about what kind of boundaries you can set - for you. Practise detaching emotionally from owning the A's "stuff" - and feel-deal-heal squarely with your own.
Self sacrificing our lives - does not "make" others appreciate us - quite the opposite, they usually resent us for our suggestions, interfereence. And we resent them for not 'listening' and taking our stellar advice. We are out of control - control freaks - bc YOU cannot control or change someone else. As long as you focus on them, the disease wins and YOU lose you more a lil every moment. I know I "survived" that way a very long time. It is progressive and it does keep getting worse.
I agree w BG of course he doesnt want you to change. He counts on you focusing on him. He wants you to feel bad and stuck, so you will keep feeling sorry and mad for/at him and keep feeding into the disease. Reality is right now. Right now - you can let go of what you knew (forgive yourself) and start over, right now you can change. Ask yourself - what can I do to allow me to feel better - today/right now? And do that healthy thing for you. Love you first and stand up for and respect yourself. Once I did that - I stopped looking out - I was getting validation, love and respect - first within me, then I can give it to others. It all starts with me.
Best way to help and support an A - is to work a solid program of your own. Life is fleeting - what do you want to do with this gorgeous amazing day? Dont try to solve the world's problems - focus on YOU, do your best each day - and allow others the dignity and respect to solve their own problems and you do the same. This program has taught me that and so much more - today I love myself and the life I work to create.
Learn about the disease and keep coming back - stay for the miracle in your life abd work it ~ bc YOUr worth it.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
I agree with the other posters. Glad that his offering to help with dinner and accepting the fact that he is an alcoholic was a very positive response. The others in that he co nversation became ugly and he stormed out. Holding your ground in like situations is so important.
You did good in explaining what alanon is all about and how you felt about the marriage. His reacton in accepting the situation and the fact that he was an alcoholic is huge!!. He then changed his behavior and offered to help with dinner Big change he is talking to you!!!Another chance to speak and mend fences.
It sounds as if you were so uncomfortable for being truthful and that you had to leave. THis is also telling and a step in the right direction.
You learned powerful lessons so far in alanon and on this Board.
The Slogan "Say What You Mean and Mean What You Say" came to mind. It is not unkind but very important in relating to others.
Please keep coming back You are on your way
-- Edited by hotrod on Saturday 21st of August 2010 09:07:33 AM
I just wanted to say that I have experienced similar hostility from my AH when I first entered the rooms of alanon. He really didn't want me to go when he was still in denial about his disease. I did stand my ground, I let him know that I love him, that I'm committed to my relationship with him, but I need help in dealing with the affects of alcoholism in my life. Like you, I let him know that the point is not to go slaughter his reputation to complete strangers, the point was to help me deal with a difficult situation.
Over time, as my behavior started improving, and as he came to understand his own condition, he was very supportive of me attending. He went from "I can't believe you're doing this to me" to "Don't you have your meeting tonight?" I share that because I wanted you to know there is hope, that while the initial choice to go can cause hell, in my situation, it settled down. In hindsight, it was also one of the healthiest choices I ever made to do something for myself and see myself as a distinct human being from my AH. The journey of a thousand miles began with that one small step.
You guys are the absolute best. I have never felt so non-crazy in all my (married) life!!! ha ha. This is NOT all in my head. I am NOT overreacting. There IS a problem here. Thank you so, so, so much.
I just have a question: everyone here seems to think it's great that AH admits he's an A. But his attitude about it is like, "yeah, so what. this is who I am, and this is what you get." That's good??? It seems like it's not good at all. He realizes it, AND still plants his feet and says "so what." That seems...terrible! Not good. But what do I know?
I definitely do need to get a phone number or two from my F2F group...I feel like I could go to a meeting every single day right now.
And the day that AH says "isn't your meeting tonight?" - I think I might die of shock...but that would be pretty amazing. I hope it happens. And more.
AC ~ theyre saying its great he says he is an A bc most A's dont ever admit that. I am sure he is in TOTAL denial about how the disease dysfunction/codependency is affecting the rest of the family. But we cant just blame them and then choose to not change our behavior (well we can but that is sick) - so way to change what you can is by focusing on you and not what he is or is not doing.
When my step dad finally admitted he was an A, he wore it like a badge and and proudly went on and continued into his (drunken) behavior. A few accidents and dui's later, it isnt so funny - he can only drive from 7am-7pm - for work b ut we all know what they do - they continue on in their own behavior.
Learning to take care of you (love, honor and respectfully hold boundaries that maintain your needs and integrity) and how to lovingly detach from the chaos - that is the way to not feel crazy in that situation. Dont buy into it, they dangle hooks all the time and we do too - we get manipulative right with them. Change what you can.
I sent u lit in a PM and it has the hours to the mtgs in our chat room - we hold two daily and there are alwasy ppl going in and out (all hours of the day and night) - if u cant get to mtgs - go to the chat room, come to online mtgs. Hope to see you there! Talking live to others that understand and have been there ~ is priceless.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
It is such a process-this uncovering denial by layers of the onion, of course we cry along the way as in a real onion peal.(they cry too, although we don't often see the tears-more the projections of pain toward others) U are never alone again. keep reaching out.
This is not an easy road, my prayers are with you for good solid nurturing self care and a day at a time self control--One of my greatest tools, was learning to say what I mean without saying it mean...."I love you but.....I can't do this anymore....I love you but it hurts me to see u like this....or I cannot have this conversation right now....or I don't want to fight and so I am going for a walk etc." I felt I kept my dignity and left them with their negativity to focus on themselves and not on what bleep I am being.
May you feel HP's blessings & strength around you day and night.
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Wishing all the best on your recovery journey, Luv
Hello apple -life was so much better before the Al-Anon meeting ??? your facing the problem by getting help for yourself ,your not keeping the secret any more that is his problem at the moment , my husb told me that for him my joining this program was now there were 2 of us who knew he had a problem. He was not willing to take alook at his drinking and i was , upsetting to say the least . Ah the silent treatment I remember it well , drove me crazy til i met this woman who asked a simple question HAVE U EVER THOUGHT OF ENJOYING THE SILENCE? I looked at her like she was nuts and had to admit NO I hadn't ,she went on to say think about it he isnt complaing about what a pain in the butt u are ,hes not picking a fight , enjoy she said .. what a concept and it actually works the silences became shorter and shorter , when we react to the silent treatment he gets the restults he's looking for Making you miserable and off his back. so enjoy turn on your fav music or go out for lunch with afreind he can be as miserable as he wants to be u dont have to go with him. Keep going to your meetings he will adjust eventually . this disease does not have to run your life too .
"This is NOT all in my head. I am NOT over-reacting. There IS a problem here."
Wow, it just never ceases to amaze me that others feel the exact same way I did. It seemed nuts, but when a counselo and then all the wonderful people here assured me that my AH's behavior were indeed those of an alcoholic, the relief I felt was exactly as you've described. Until then, mostly because he was SO good at deferring the blame for everything on me (a very typical alcoholic behavior, I've since learned), I really felt lime I was the cause of all our problems. After all, as he told me often, the only 'problem' he had with drinking was the fact that I objected to it. And when I finally realized that I truly had no control and started working to make myself better instead of him, wonderful things began to happen. It wasn't easy. At first reading through the first of the 12 steps, I thought, " well, this is a piece of cake. I amazing KNOW I have no control, I Know there is a higher power, and I already try to turn my will and life over to Him." Then I REALLY started trying to put them into practice and realized it was quite a bit harder than I'd thought. I'm STILL working at those first 3!! But the point is I am working on ME, not him. And somehow that has affected all these positive changes in him. But whether or not he would have changed, the important thing was that I learned (and am still learning) to change ME. I am no longer dependent on him or anyone else for my happiness. Al-anon, the people here, and my Higher Power brought me to this point and, although I know there will be rough times again (cuz that's just life), with all this support I really feel I can handle whatever comes.
Please keep coming back here, post as often as the need arises. Isn't it a wonderful feeling to know you're NOT crazy, you're NOT over-reacting and, most importantly, you're NOT alone! Feel the love- wallow in it! You are home, among peole who truly understand and care. You are a great person; give yorself the gift of believing that!!
Love from Denise
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The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.
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"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time."
My favorite slogan is "Don't React", my second favorite is "How Important Is It". I don't have to go to ever fight or argument I'm invited to anymore. It was a process, but I learned how to detach, and most of the time detach with love. LOL.
I'm reminded of the story about the lady who always got into an argument every time her husband came home drunk. Her doctor told her the next time he came home drunk to get some sweet tea and continue swishing it in her mouth until her husband went to bed. After two weeks of trying swishing the sweet tea in her mouth she reported back to her doctor that she was amazed...she and her husband had not been in a single argument. Her doctor looked at her and said...See how keeping your mouth shut helps.
By "not reacting' and asking myself "how important is it" to react......my serenity has been saved countless times. My wife is still an active alcoholic, she is going to do what she is going to do. The important thing for me is what am I going to do, or more important...not going to to, which reminds me of another slogan....."When In Doubt Don't".
Continue going to your f2f meetings and coming back here and posting. Get one or two of the old timers phone numbers at your next meeting and don't hesitate calling them. They are there for you and want you to have what they have. It's called giving back.
Applecake your not fighting this battle by yourself anymore.....Isn't the feeling of not being alone anymore priceless?
"I am powerless and my life can be unmanagable" That's a trigger phrase for me from the 1st step. A trigger lesson from the past also is "before I make a decision about how I am going to react or respond, take it to my sponsor." "If I try it without help it will come out exactly the way it always has...crazy".
My early sponsor left me with a slogan which is major to me because both he and I knew that I was not good at control. "Don't React" is the slogan that screams to me when I get surprised, defensive, angry or self centered." When I don't react I can extend the time between what happens and how I think I can respond and the consequences I want.
Reality memory for me is also major. It says that "I am in a contencious relationship with this person, best chance I have is to make things worse for me and for them."
"Would I rather be happy or would I rather be right?". Everytime with the alcoholic when I tried to be right I ended up giving my self away to anger and rage and then she and the disease owned me. I hated that and I hated feeling wrong and confused until I started working with sponsorship and others. I finally came to the program with a special intention...to be taught to be different so I could find peace of mind and serenity.
When you start to doubt that what you are about to do will work or not...don't do it. Call someone in the program, hopefully a sponsor and don't engage until after you have listened to another recovery perspective, else wise the best hope is that you will continue getting what you've been getting cause you're doing what you've always done that never worked.
I had to learn how to let my alcoholic have her reactions...some of what you mentioned here, to what she feared I was doing and didn't have a clue about. She didn't like it and at the same time I found out that I wasn't responsible for what she liked and didn't like...that was her job and I shouldn't interfer with it.
End the hostility, put down your weapons and fire yourself as his manager, call someone in program and talk then mostly listen.
I too smiled, Applecake, when I read that he admitted being an alcoholic. I'd give a lot to hear that . This is step one for both of you ! Admitted we are powerless over alcohol. and Our lives have become unmanageable.
I so hope you will continue with alanon ; you will learn so much, and we need your experience, strength and hope too.
You guys are the absolute best. I have never felt so non-crazy in all my (married) life!!! ha ha. This is NOT all in my head. I am NOT overreacting. There IS a problem here. Thank you so, so, so much.
I just have a question: everyone here seems to think it's great that AH admits he's an A. But his attitude about it is like, "yeah, so what. this is who I am, and this is what you get." That's good??? It seems like it's not good at all. He realizes it, AND still plants his feet and says "so what." That seems...terrible! Not good. But what do I know?
I definitely do need to get a phone number or two from my F2F group...I feel like I could go to a meeting every single day right now.
And the day that AH says "isn't your meeting tonight?" - I think I might die of shock...but that would be pretty amazing. I hope it happens. And more.
He may be saying "so what?" but he might be thinking "oh #$%^!" Defiance can be a symptom of fear and shame. He may just need some time to process the realization in his own head and heart.
Just for encouragement..... (everyone's situation and circumstances are eerily similar, but also have some differences).....
My ex-AW - who is now over 7 years sober, was FURIOUS with me when I first started Al-Anon.... she was convinced that the ONLY reason I was going was to publicly bash & humiliate her, and I should be embarrassed of myself.... To no great surprise, at this time she had not yet admitted that she truly was, indeed, an alcoholic....
In the following few months - she didn't choose sobriety for herself yet, but she was pleased that I was getting educated about the disease, and learning things for myself.... I like to think that she also noticed changes in my behavior, as I certainly wasn't as angry & frustrated as I had been pre-Al-Anon....
Some months after that, she started her journey of recovery & sobriety..... This was definitely all a part of the recovery process - both for myself and for my A....
Take care Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I lived with someone who said it was my mental health issues that were the problem. I took that on for so many years.
I am glad you are here. You don't necessarily need to disclose anything about al anon with your spouse. Indeed I found anything that remotely related to addiciton was like waving a red flag at people.
I am glad you are here and seeking support. You deserve it.
) help me refocus my attention - How Important Is It? Live and Let Live. Let Go and Let God - these simple tools, when I use them, help me detach emotionally from the disease and move forward instead of staying stuck in the same old crap.
