The material presented
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level.
Aloha Family...I have returned to this well for your awarenesses, experiences, strengths and hope. I don't have just a sense you are wise I know from experience that your are so I am trusting and hopeful.
You remember my earlier post entitled I want my brother back!! and I haven't posted much more about it. He is in Federal Prison having plead guilty to a felony that most all of you would have a stiff reaction to just like his Al-Anon and AA fellowship friends here have had. Many of them have excised him from their thoughts and lives and some of us have exercised more grace and mercy, acknowledging the information, checking it against our own value systems, not judging or gossiping and the like. Some of us (including myself) have made the decision to continue physical support so that one part of his life (material possessions etc.) were cared for, for a time and until it came to the boundary we have individually set for ourselves and for our relationship with him. Some have gone further than others but the good thing is that we have networked with each other with our ESH to temper it and keep each other in balance. What we have found out along the way has been that the dishonesty and denial and deceit is deeper than first told and we have gotten first hand view, again, of the manipulation, power and control an addicted person can employ to keep themselves above it all and at the top of the heap with a halo on and a sword in their hand (kinda dramatic huh?...but then we know about the drama or are finding out). Several of us have reached the boundaries we have set and have stepped outside of the circle. Several others are about to do the very same thing. And here we reach the point where the addict/alcoholic/felon attempts to reach back in and where I need your ESH and feedback. He want letters of referral to the court in his favor to abbreviate his sentence. The recovering person (face page) has been exemplary...the lie, the secret personality needs to be in prison and should have lost everything so that he could fully feel the crash of hitting his bottom. I won't play God...only God can do God's role and I cannot know how near this brother is to making amends for that part of his life he has kept hidden from others so I'm lacking here and I guess in other places. I have an opportunity to either write a letter or not and to say what I know as the truth to the judge and court. I know I have an opportunity to inventory my motive and what drives the motive...what I need is to listen to the wisdom and awareness from the membership of the family MIP and mix it in with my own. Today I don't make too many important decisions without what I have learned in Al-Anon and MIP.
If you relate and care to let me hear it. In advance Mahalo Nui. Thanks Much.
Jerry I think you answered all of your own concerns already you just need some reasurance and clarification of what might happen, what will happen if you write the letter or not.
He is your brother and blood is thicker than water, if you write the letter will you write about bout the man and his decease, or just the man? he is both,and only you know the REAL difference, two sides of this, and when it comes to our family we want to protect and save them, but we know we can't do that, I feel this is a personal conscience thing for you, but you are not to be judged on any decision you make, or to feel the responsibility is laid squarely on your shoulders, I would be more inclined to write a personal letter to my brother and tell him how much I loved him, and just stick to that, three c's Jerry F, honesty first, your true integrity, follow your instincts, you are loved by so many, I will pray for you and I will pray for your brother!
(((Jerry))) Someday I hope to have the compassion and the wisdom that you have. You hold all the answers of what to do for your brother. You just have to decide which choice is the right one for you. Peace to you Jerry.
Since coming to this site, I have received some wonderful words of encouragement and hope from you. I'm sorry to say that I don't feel I can do the same in return. I'm still learning so much myself and you just seem so wise! But I wanted you to know that I read your post and will be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. I truly hope you come to a decision that brings you peace of mind.
((((((Jerry))))), I'll be thinking of you!! ________________________
Denise
"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time."
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"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time."
Jerry Hi and thank you for your post. Somewhere deep within its hitting a nerve with me and reminds me of making some very difficult choices with family members. I feel for you and your situation and the decision you are trying to make. Your post heading "honesty always" speaks volumnes as to being true to yourself. Blessings and prayers your way.
-- Edited by DreamXL on Wednesday 30th of June 2010 07:55:06 AM
How difficult this is for such a compassionate person as yourself. I have experienced program people who have difficulty being honest ( a new sponsee who claims that she has never trusted anyone) so I know, as you do that this disease encourages members to cover up the uncomfortable truth for any advantage.
As you have stated, we are not judge and jury and HP has not appointed us to administer retribution so I would pray about it, go within and see if I could write the letter sharing my experience with this person and indicating the disappointment I also felt when I discovered the dishonesty.
In other words, I would:
" Place Principles above Personalities", "Examine My Motives" and then "Take the action and let go of the result"
I feel confusion too. Two points I wonder about if the situation were mine.
How would I write a letter "to say what I know as the truth" about someone whom I didn't actually know the truth about? For some reason the phrase "watch the actions not the words" comes to mind.
And secondly the thought of writing such a letter reminds me of the way I would make excuses for me ExAW's behavior when others would say truthful things about her actions.
Ultimately, I would probably write a "draft" letter just to see what I would come up with! Then pray about it and ask for guidance on whether or not to send it. Part of that guidance would be running it by my sponsor!
Oh and I like what Katy said about the personal letter too!
You've already been given some excellent food for thought. I'm somewhat at a loss for what to add other than my own personal experience with my biological brother.
He was placed in a local jail for something that I have knew he has done for years. His bail was quite hefty, an amount that I did not have. Nor would I have bailed him out if I had had the money. I listened to my inner guidance. I was at peace with my motive.
I would consider writing the personal letter, as well as writing a draft to the judge and praying for guidance as suggested.
Our hearts go out to you Jerry.
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
As always your knowledge and compassion just amazes me. You have answered your question in your title. Honesty always.....as we know addicts are the best liars on this earth. The deception is huge. Hitting bottom is a must to get back on the road to recovery. However as we know some never hit thier bottom and the lies and deception never end.
I hope and pray the decission you make is the right one for you my brother. You and he are in my prayers.
You are so wise and so helpful and supportive to EVERYONE here on this board it hurts me that I don't have a concrete answer for you that would bring you peace and serenity in whatever decision you make. I can however tell you that at this point in my recovery what I would do in your situation as I am experiencing some of what you have shared. My son is an addict.. he sits today in jail for a non violent drug possesion felony and here is where I tell you that it is his father and I that contributed to these charges being brought against him. He was given every chance in the world to do just probation and eventually have the felony reduced so it would not follow him the rest of his life. He is 21. He chose time after time to not follow his probation and his father and I turned him in time after time until the judge got tired of giving him chances and sentenced him to the 5 months of the jail rehab faciltiy and 1 month in thier work/release program where he could go out and look for a job etc. That was last Dec. 2 weeks before he was to be released from the rehab unit he and a few others took the risk and commited a minor infraction. My son immediatly lied to me about what the infraction was and saw it as no big deal as he figured the most that would happen was he would get an extra 30 days tacked on to his sentence. We already had a sober living home lined up for him to go to etc. Well he was wrong, yes he got the extra 30 days but also was told he could either start his sentence all over again on the rehab unit or take his chances before the judge where he could be sentenced to 1-5 yrs in prision ( then without the possiblity of getting the felony reduced). The mere fact that he even entertained the idea of taking the chance before the judge and doing his time and living with the felony spoke volumes to me that he was not ready to be released. That as heartbreaking as it is for a parent to see thier child locked up he is exactly where he needs to be. I believe it was God's intervention that kept him there as clearly he was not ready for the outside. If he had the chance at an early release and asked me for a letter of support to the judge I can tell you in all honesty I would have to decline that request as HP has already shown me he has not yet grasped the severity of his situation and that the rehab provided had not yet kicked in with him. His actions show me that. So while I give no advice on what you should do i can just tell you in my own situation what I would do. I do very much like the idea of your writing a personal letter to your brother and letting him know that you love him and definitly praying for guidance. Your answer will come. You are in my prayers Blessings He was sentenced last Dec finally
I can only give you my ESH. I have been in recovery of sorts for over 20 years. I grew up in an incredibly abusive, insane (both my parents were ill) enmeshed blue collar community. There was absolutely no sanity around me at all. At a certain point in my life I started recovery, going to therapy, 12 step meetings. I quit alcohol. I surrounded myself with people who were "recovering". I dug up my childhood issues, I looked at them. I felt immensely brave to do that. At the same time since I had no "tools" to speak of I operated as a victim, child and was absolutely immature, irresponsible (on so many levels) and hyper responsible to others. I lived my life in over reaction, chaotic crises. Of course even though I was in recovery I gravitated towards people who lived just like that.
If you had asked me at the time whether I was honest I would point to my childhood and say I was incredibly brave to be even able to acknowledge it. I was not yet ready to be an "adult".
Perhaps your "brother" is in the same category. He has been in recovery of some sort can't deny that. He just couldn't go to the levels of responsibility. I eventually gravitated towards a man (the ex A) who was absolutely as wounded, immature, reckless as I was and still can be. I could put on a great front like he did but I had absolutely no idea how to go about self care, self responsibility, being a part of the community nothing. I felt intensely uncomfortable in my own skin never mind being around people.
Honesty is on so many levels. We can't force someone to be on the level we think they should be on.
I can't tell you what to do about the letter or your boundaries. I know I absolutely have "huge" boundaries around people I consider to be reckless (as I was) demanding (as I was) and immature (as I certainly still can be). I don't yet know how to interact appropriately with anyone let alone those who are not yet able to take the steps I have. I do know that I tend to over react to everything and anything and there is another way to do things.
I can only share my story. My son was in court last month looking at sentence of up to 2 yrs. I thought of writing a letter of support to the judge, of engaging with his lawyer, I wanted everyone to know he was sick not bad. He weighs 7 stones, is frightened of his own shadow and the thought of him in jail with real criminals fairly rattled me. I could make this a long story but wont.....suffice to say that after examining my motives, I did nothing in the end except pray for the best outcome. For me..... sick or not, son or not, he did the crime so must do the time and at least in jail he would have to live with himself sober for a bit and avail himself of the help there. A life full of lies and denial is no life. Do I feel sad and sorry for him......oh yes..... but if Ive learned anything in this disease its that my emotions just get in the way and keep on plumping up that cushion under him.
I did write to him to say I was sorry his life was out of control and that I hoped he would get the help he needs, that his family loved him and would be supportive of any efforts to turn his life around. I also suggested now might be the time to turn to his HP. We refused to engage in anything to do with his mess. Tough? Maybe, I dont know.... but the right thing for us as a family.
He got a suspended sentence.....to be reviewed after 6 months during which he has to show willing to change. Hes asked us for help.....hes currently in detox.
Taking it odat.... A higher power than us is in charge.
I too think your answer is in your title......honesty always.
I remember once when a student of mine asked me to write a recommendation letter for him. He was a smart guy but he had been late for nearly every class, turned in his papers late, and protested when I marked him down for these things. I think he hoped I would write a recommendation saying, "This is a smart guy." I said, "I'll write a recommendation for you, and I'll say you're a smart guy, because you are, but I'll also say that you've been late all semester, you turn in all your assignments late, and you don't believe not meeting deadlines should affect your grade." He got huffy and said, "Never mind!"
So my thought would be: does your brother-kind-of-in-recovery want you to tell your truth about his progress, or his truth about his progress? And of course, would doing some hard time in prison be better than relapsing?
I don't know if I've fully understood the situation, so disregard entirely if this isn't helpful. I find myself wondering, "What would Jerry F say about this problem?" So I suspect that those of us who say something helpful are just recycling your own recovery back to you!
Aloha Jerry - I know of whom you are speaking on our not-so-Big Island. I only found the news through the media and it really was like being blind-sided.
I've been trying to sit with the news to discover how I feel about the situation. Taking the advice of not gossiping or criticizing. It's so easy in a small community to want to open my mouth and dig and find out who knows what and what they feel about it and so on and so forth.
When it comes down to my own personal recovery, such gossip does me no good. I didn't know him extremely well as it is. But again, the allegations are very disheartening and have me feeling like withdrawing to a very safe distance.
I can share how it's been with divulging the information of my divorce with my non-program friends. I approach each person uniquely as many of these people are mutual friends between my husband and I. With some people, I feel being truthful was important, but I had to make sure when I spoke the truth that I was coming from a place of just stating the facts without coloring it with emotion and "poor me, look at what he did to me with his lying and cheating!"
There is one thing I have vowed to myself that I will NOT spread around in this small community with our mutual friends, and that is my exAH's sexual identity issues. I understand the stigma is very high around bi- or homosexuality, even in this community, and with the knowledge that my exAH attempted to take his life once in the past because he thought I might tell all his acquaintances keeps my mouth shut.
However, I will not cover that he cheated. I will not cover that he has a drinking problem. I will not cover that he was verbally abusive. I will not cover that he is a sick person. But I just make sure when I say it all, I do it in a manner that is factual and neutral.
I can really understand the conundrum you must be feeling when being approached by our brother in recovery with a request to make his life a little easier.
I went through so many similar issues with my exAH. I have the ability to do certain things that will make life easier for my exAH. And hey, I just might look good in doing so. He'll thank me for it. He'll change. He won't do it again.
Every time I sacrificed my integrity to make life easier for my exAH, I never felt at peace with my decision to sacrifice my values. I always ended up feeling resentful and that I should have known better.
This is why I really value the pamphlet on Detachment. From what I've seen, it is Al-Anon's ONLY "instruction manual":
IN AL-ANON WE LEARN: · Not to suffer because of the actions or reactions of other people · Not to allow ourselves to be used or abused by others in the interest of another's recovery · Not to do for others what they could do for themselves · Not to manipulate situations so others will eat, go to bed, get up, pay bills, not drink · Not to cover up for anyone's mistakes or misdeeds · Not to create a crisis · Not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events
For me, our brother in recovery is in a crisis that was the natural course of the events of his choices.
I have never had to cross the bridge you are approaching. A mistake is a mistake. A sin is a sin. A lie is a lie. I am guilty of them all. Some make bigger mistakes, tell bigger lies, and the sin is greater in the eyes of the law.
Your brother in program has admitted making a huge mistake. I'm sure there will be many who will write letters, and many who will choose not to write. From what I know about my friend Jerry, no other person will soul search, or ask for the infinite wisdom and guidance regarding this decision that you will. I have no doubt you will come to and find the decision that is best for you and in turn your friend in program. As you have told me and many others......Always do the next right thing......HP and your program will determine for you what is the next right thing.
Remember when it is all said and done and all the chips fall, the ultimate and final decision will be made by HP. You and your brother in program are in my prayers.
HUGS, RLC
-- Edited by RLC on Wednesday 30th of June 2010 03:07:23 PM
-- Edited by RLC on Wednesday 30th of June 2010 03:09:30 PM
Hi there my friend.... I think you know what I would advise (and it would be consistent with what the wonderful Jerry F would advise others)..... Do what makes YOU feel right & comfortable, and allows YOU to maintain your dignity.... Lying for your 'brother', to the courts, is not likely something that you will be able to live with, and I would maintain that your dignity as a person, is first and foremost in this one..... You also have a HP that you are close with, and I don't think He would think any differently..... Blood is important, but our own integrity is even moreso....
As for the physical helping... to me, that's like a boundary - if you are doing it from the heart, and 'without expectations', then the added burden mess of more lies doesn't really change your intent....
Just my two cents - friend to friend
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Jerry..... I have been asked twice in my life to write letters of recommendation for people that I was less than confident about.
The first was a young man that was working the system and showed up at church for a while so that we members would be able to 'vouch' for him. I wrote the letter... stated that in the x months I had known him he was at church every sunday and wednesday and participated appropriately. It was all I knew to be the TRUTH. Whether he used the letter or not I have no idea. Did he stop coming to church after his ordeal was over... you betcha!
The other time was a friend that wanted a letter for an adoption approval for overseas adoption. I did not think they needed to adopt any more children ( they had 4) especially special needs children because of certain family dynamics. Again what I chose to write was the TRUTH that I knew... that I had known them for x years and had never noticed any neglect or abuse of the 4 chidlren they had. That chldlren in their care were well fed and clean and neat.... and left my opinion of whether or not they needed anymore to myself. HP took care of the situation and no adoption happened, but the friendship remains intact because I did what I was asked. I could only write what I personally knew about MY interactions with the people in question. Sometimes the lack of information speaks more volumes to the courts than pages of fluff.... you know?
Search your heart... you will do what is right for your value system... I have no doubt of that at all. Follow the PEACE my friend... it will lead you where you need to go.
blessings, donna/adonaisgirl
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One Day at a Time I am POWERLESS but not HOPELESS Be sure to BREATHE and SMILE!!!
I am at such a loss. I don't really have anything to add to what you wrote in your own post...I've gotten so much encouragement and really good ESH from you here. I just wanted you to know that I read what you're going through and that I am praying for you.
I'm sorry for the pain this situation is causing you. I don't have any experience to share. I do have compassion for a dificult situation. And confidence that with the wise words from everyone here and the strength of your faith and tools you will find the answer that brings you the most peace. As always you and yours are in my prayers.
Flip this situation. If it were me, what would you advise & coucel? I have been in similar situations. What I have done is to write that letter just as if I was writing to the judge. I have then put it aside & let HP do the rest. If I was suppose to mail it, I did. If I wasn't I didn't. At least by writing it down I had gotten it out of my system. I also wrote the person a letter, letting it all hang out. Again, I didn't mail it right away. Just turned it over. It seemed to work out in the end.
Only you know what is best for you to do. The desire to help another human being is a strong pull. It gets tricky when you involve an addict with the manipulations. It's what they know & do, until someone tells them it is no longer acceptable. Whatever your motives are I am sure you will do the right thing. As my grandfather use to say: "Be still and let your heart think" my friend. All will be well. Much love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
