The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
People were trying to explain to me that an A does NOT have choice when it comes down to picking up the bottle... I don't understand this and when it was explained to me I found a lot of contradictions!
I see this situation differently I feel they have a choice to get better, a choice not to drink and a choice to work on themselves..
Maybe I'm mis-understanding something?
I would be interested in hearing on how people feel regarding choices...
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Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
I too had difficulity with the idea of addiction not being a choice. I was handed all sorts of explanations but not one of them helped me to accept this concept.
I was told that the "AMA" has termed alcoholism a disease with definate symptons and progression. All the oher ideas that have been suggested to you were also rejected by me.
The best idea that helped me to stop arguing the issue and start using the tools of alanon was:s If you cannot accept any part of the program just:
Take What you Like and Leave the Rest. Leaving the rest means stop arguing the issue and just leave it alone. I no longer have to be right and that Idea really helps me to this day.
I have always accepted the fact this is a disease. I don't know any addict that wishes to be an addict. Sometimes this disease gets a hold of them and won't let go. I have seen people with 30 years sobriety suddenly pick up a bottle and never come back from it. It's why they call this disease cunning, baffling and powerful.
I have seen hubby whose addiction plus his psychological issues fight like there is no tomorrow on any given day. He had the best year of his life when he was sober. One day he picked up a small bottle and that was it. He was ashamed to go back to AA. He felt like a loser. It only spiraled him more. Trust me this man did not want to drink. He just couldn't come back from it.
I always said that I loved the man not the disease. Ironically it didn't take his life, but it would have. It's like I have high cholesterol. Yes I am careful what I eat. However I LOVE all the bad stuff: bacon, cheese, ice cream. I hate to admit it, but if I could I would eat red meat every day. I know I can't. But once in a while I just can't resist the craving to have that double cheeseburger. So I give into it. Now imagine that craving every minute every day of your life - only with alcohol. I honestly believe that if I was an addict I don't know that I would be able to stay sober. I'm strong, but not that strong. I couldn't do it. Anybody that can has my highest admiration.
Tim knew he couldn't drink. But once he gave into it that was it. He knew it was wrong. He would tell me (even though I knew) that he drank. Sure he would sober up for a bit, but the spinning thoughts, the guilt, feeling like a failure all kicked back in. So what did he do to stop the feelings? He drank to pass out so he wouldn't feel it. I had this man cry in my arms because of the shame. It broke my heart to watch it.
It's a disease, no doubt in my mind. It's a disease that would have taken the man I loved more than life itself away had something else not. Much love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn
-- Edited by Karilynn on Saturday 5th of June 2010 08:50:38 AM
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I have had difficulties with understanding this myself. Here is how I see it now:
I have started believing that alcoholism is both a mental and physical disease. And I have learned that alcohol is not the cause, but one of many symptoms.
I think the A is using it as medication. To stop out of choice is not possible because it rises fear and other unwanted feelings they cannot control.
I believe that the disease have to be treated with alternative medications (I'm thinking of the program), something only them selves can figure out.
They can maybe choose to try out alternative ways to keep their disease at bay, but they must have some kind of faith that it can work "as good" as their previous medication. Alcohol take away so many bad and soul-ripping emotions for the A.
You can make an alcoholic aware of the alternative medicine, but only with hope, not expectations to see the A change his or her ways.
Our mind naturally want to make sense of everything. I am studying for a science degree and is used to cause and effect, that everything is logical. So it's very hard for me to see that most of the things I learn from Al-Anon make no sense. But I have some experience and together with the accumulated experience from other Al-Anon members I can see that things are just what they are, whether I understand it or not and whether I accept it or not.
Struggling to accepting the reality has brought me allot of pain and I know it will again. But hopefully Al-Anon can help me find ways to accept the reality, rather than trying to make the reality fit my head.
Are
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If we try to judge another person using ourselves as a reference, we forget that we are all different. Where is the justice in that?
I used to ask myself the same question. The whys and why nots. Is it a disease or is it not? Why would the alcoholic risk everything they had ever worked for or held dear, their family, job, house, friends, and health, over a bottle of alcohol or a can of beer? I struggled for an answer.
I got my answer one day as I was reading in my Courage to Change book. I was reading pages on different slogans and I realized the answer was right there in front of me in one of my favorite slogans: "How Important Is It"...... for me to know the answer to my question. I am powerless over the disease so what difference does it make? What would I do different if I had the answer? It made me realize that I needed to put the focus on myself and not the alcoholic in my life. I didn't get the answer I wanted or was looking for, but I got the answer I needed.
I don't know that I subscribe to any theory accept the human condition. There are those that are strong and there are those that aren't. We are all both of those at times. As an A I totally understand having alcohol kicking my fanny. I don't understand loosing my life to it - but only because I haven't. I don't understand the inability to stop, as I haven't experienced that - I was a binge drinker. I could stop for a long time - but after 2 drinks God only knows what would happen. I have done some REALLY stupid stuff drunk. THAT I understand and don't miss.
But I am a smoker and I haven't stopped. I suppose once I get lung cancer or emphazema I wouldn't have a problem stopping.
I understand being addicted to another person and going through hell just to be with them, regardless of what it costs me.
So if I can see these things in myself, things others probably don't understand, I can see the alcoholic having their issues as well. I don't understand them, but I accept them. I don't own them, it is not my problem. It is theirs to fix and if they choose not to, again . . . not my problem.
I realize that there are situations that you need to interact with others - co parenting etc. The way I protect myself is to just make sure that I provide all I need. I don't depend on others. If someone wants to chip in, pick up the kid, take her for a while, help with finances - that is great! It is EXTRA. But I have framed my life so that I don't have to depend on anyone - that way there are no disappointments. I have found that 95+% of the time, folks disappoint me, and I am sure I have done my fair share of disappointing. This makes it easier for me. No expectations. It isn't a life full of sorrow, lonliness, and struggle. It has been the opposite. It has been a wonderful life, with a few bumps, but very little stress about what others are going to do or not do - and just living to take care of me and my kid. Happy with what is in front of me and not missing anything because I have already taken care of it.
That, and I completely agree with RLC. Does it really matter?
tlc
__________________
To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.
Does the alcoholic have a choice whether to drink or not? Yep, I have wrestled with that question countless times. I'd sure like to know the answer. Is it different for every alcoholic? Does it depend on the stage? All I come up with is more questions.
I recall when I first discovered this site; it was around 2007. I had just separated with my AH. Like countless others, I was determined to find the answers. I read every post, mulled the responses over in my head so that I could make certain if my decision to leave was moral or not (I was second guessing my gut telling me to leave.)
My initial response to many of the MIP posts was that Al-anon makes attendees selfish. Why . . . the thought of "taking care of myself" while my AH was suffering seemed absolute nonsense - down right immoral. It was my duty (I had thought) to rescue him. So I digilently went to work reading all that I could, attended weekly counseling sessions, and made countless attempts to "fix him."
I have accepted that the answer is elusive. I "get it" when people ask, "Does it mattter?"
I am so thankful that I have finally learned the difference between enabling and helping.
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
The operative word here is responsibility. I think its difficult for us to understand what addiction is, once it starts its hard to arrest, it takes on a life of its own.
Addicts are not only addicted, but genetically predisposed to this disease, its not their fault they have an addiction, but it is their responsibility to get sober. If you look into the family of an addict, there will be a parent, a grandparent, somebody that is addicted. My Xah's mother and father were alcoholics, he didnt have a chance.
I inherited diabetis from my Mother, its not my fault I have the disease, but if I want to live and not have my legs amputated, I have to take responsibility or die.
An active A does not have a moral issue, Yes there are some that would be immoral even if they were sober, but most are good guys with an illness. Its more of a physical disease then thought. Its not because a A has problems and then drinks, its because he drinks and that makes problems. Not to take the responsibility off the A, but the medical field really needs to do more research on this disease, one that doesnt make them sick if they reach for a drink(punishment) or not the kind that puts them out either when their in rehab and they wake up feeling good and dont feel withdrawal, not that either. But a legitimate medication. The diet is very important also, most A's dont eat enought protein. But thats not suppose to be our problem. I think sometimes we just want them to stop what there doing so they will fit back into our life. Thats not how it works either. I think if given the choice, I dont think anybody would want this disease. Thanks for listening, Luv, Bettina
And I've already started to budget where I don't have to depend on the A = ) I think I'm so angry because I'm trying to adjust to all this at the same time as "working on myself".....
I need a break and I can't have one so I just need to suck it up, you know? Going through all this for myself and the kids and having to hear the A whining is just getting to me..
tlcate wrote:
I don't know that I subscribe to any theory accept the human condition. There are those that are strong and there are those that aren't. We are all both of those at times. As an A I totally understand having alcohol kicking my fanny. I don't understand loosing my life to it - but only because I haven't. I don't understand the inability to stop, as I haven't experienced that - I was a binge drinker. I could stop for a long time - but after 2 drinks God only knows what would happen. I have done some REALLY stupid stuff drunk. THAT I understand and don't miss.
But I am a smoker and I haven't stopped. I suppose once I get lung cancer or emphazema I wouldn't have a problem stopping.
I understand being addicted to another person and going through hell just to be with them, regardless of what it costs me.
So if I can see these things in myself, things others probably don't understand, I can see the alcoholic having their issues as well. I don't understand them, but I accept them. I don't own them, it is not my problem. It is theirs to fix and if they choose not to, again . . . not my problem.
I realize that there are situations that you need to interact with others - co parenting etc. The way I protect myself is to just make sure that I provide all I need. I don't depend on others. If someone wants to chip in, pick up the kid, take her for a while, help with finances - that is great! It is EXTRA. But I have framed my life so that I don't have to depend on anyone - that way there are no disappointments. I have found that 95+% of the time, folks disappoint me, and I am sure I have done my fair share of disappointing. This makes it easier for me. No expectations. It isn't a life full of sorrow, lonliness, and struggle. It has been the opposite. It has been a wonderful life, with a few bumps, but very little stress about what others are going to do or not do - and just living to take care of me and my kid. Happy with what is in front of me and not missing anything because I have already taken care of it.
That, and I completely agree with RLC. Does it really matter?
tlc
__________________
Courage is not a roar. Sometimes Courage is the small voice at the end of the day that says "I'll try again tomorrow"
