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Hi I ave just joined this site and I'm having difficulties with boundries of where my responsibiliy to help ends ,and how to know how much to give to others time energy and money wise? It seems such a hard thing for me to work out. I come from a family of 12 and my father was either a very heavy drinker or an alcolic. My 5 sisters and I shared the one room for most of our lives, and I think that's why it is so hard for me to work out boundries. Any surgestions from anyone on how to go about fixing this
Setting Boundaries The purpose of setting boundaries is to take care of our self. Being forced to learn how to set boundaries is a vital part of learning to own our self, of learning to respect ourselves, of learning to love ourselves. If we never have to set a boundary, then we will never get in touch with who we really are - will never escape the enmeshment of codependence and learn to define ourselves as separate in a healthy way.
There is a difference between setting boundaries, and learning how not to enable, I learned that as far as helping others, a good rule of thumb is never do for others what they can and should do for themselves, that the rule of thumb for both is my business ends at the tip of my nose, and that I had to learn about both so I could learn where others ended and I began.
When I first encountered the concept of boundaries, I thought of them as lines that I would draw in the sand - and if you stepped across them I would shoot you (figuratively speaking.) (I had this image of some place like the Alamo - from a movie I guess - where a sword was used to draw a line in the sand, and then those that were going to stay and fight to the death stepped across it.) I thought that boundaries had to be rigid and final and somehow kind of fatal.
Some boundaries are rigid - and need to be. Boundaries such as: "It is not OK to hit me, ever." "It is not acceptable to call me certain names." "It is not acceptable to cheat on me."
No one deserves to be treated abusively. No one deserves to be lied to and betrayed.
We all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. If we do not respect ourselves, if we do not start awakening to our right to be treated with respect and dignity (and our responsibility in creating that in our lives) - then we will be more comfortable being involved with people who abuse us then with people who treat us in loving ways. Often if we do not respect ourselves, we will end up exhibiting abusive behavior towards people who do not abuse us. On some level in our codependence, we are more comfortable with being abused (because it is what we have always known) than being treated in a loving way.
Learning to set boundaries is vital to learning to love our self, and to communicating to other's that we have worth.
There are basically three parts to a boundary. The first two are setting the boundary - the third is what we will do to defend that boundary.
If you - a description of the behavior we find unacceptable (again being as descriptive as possible.)
I will - a description of what action you will take to protect and take care of your self in the event the other person violates the boundary.
If you continue this behavior - a description of what steps you will take to protect the boundary that you have set.
One very drastic example (in the case of someone who is just learning about boundaries and has been physically abused in the past) would be:
If you ever hit me, I will call the police and press charges - and I will leave this relationship. If you continue to threaten me, I will get a restraining order and prepare to defend myself in whatever manner is necessary.
It is not always necessary or appropriate to share the third part of this formula with the other person when setting a boundary - the first two steps are the actual setting of the boundary. The third part is something we need to know for ourselves, so that we know what action we can take if the other person violates the boundary. If we set a boundary and expect the other person to abide by it automatically - then we are setting ourselves up to be a victim of our expectation.
It is not enough to set boundaries - it is necessary to be willing to do whatever it takes to enforce them. We need to be willing to go to any length, do whatever it takes to protect ourselves. This is something that really upset me when I first started learning how to set boundaries. It took great courage for me to build myself up to a point where I was willing to set a boundary. I thought that the huge thing I had done to set a boundary should be enough. Then to see that some people just ignored the boundaries I had set, seemed terribly unfair to me.
One of the things I found helpful to setting boundaries was reading something called "fighting fair", it's all about using "I" messages, and for me, "I feel" being the most effective, I can argue with how you think, but I can't argue with how you feel.
Example, years ago I was in couples counseling/therapy and my GF said "yadda yadda blah blah and it upsets me"
the therapist said, "That's right"
I was outraged and indignant, and I responded with, "Blah blah yadda yadda" (my version of said events, clearly proving she was "wrong")
The therapist said, "that's right too"
She said, "our feelings were our feelings, and our perception of the events were our reality, that's what we saw and how we saw it"
I was ...flabbergasted...so now, If I have one view of a situation, and you have another, you aren't necessarily "wrong" and since then that has been one of the most important things I ever learned.
So we can both be upset, we can both have a different "take" on what happened but We can both be "right" if we are dealing with feelings.
When you ______ I feel ___________
Fights happen when we feel threatened about something that is important to us. Otherwise with the painfulness of conflict, we would be willing to let go of the issue. Some of our values, attitudes or possessions are challenged making us feel that our basic self esteem is threatened. We take a defensive stand and come out swinging. Unfortunately few of us know how to fight in a productive way. We have learned rules for fighting from those people who did not know how to express themselves in constructive ways--our parents. When we are challenged, we often revert back to our little child self, hurt and angry. We simply perpetuate poor communication habits because we do not know how to do anything different.
But wait! Research and family systems theory to the rescue! Here is what current psychology has to say about approaching the tricky problem of getting what you want without beating up yourself and your mate. Here are some ideas that will help you reduce heated arguments and stay on the track of figuring out what will be the best for both of you. Here are some rules for fair fighting.
* Don't let things fester inside. Anger must be expressed or it will build up. Schedule arguments ahead of time when you feel the pressure building up. Agree before hand that there are some things that you can disagree on (opinions on politics, personal interests and beliefs.) Other things must be worked through (how to raise the children, spend money, how you would like to be treated, etc..) Determine which category your topic falls in.
* Chose a time when you will not be distracted by family members, guests or television and when you both are relatively relaxed. Sit face to face and keep eye contact at the same level. Make a contract to discuss the issue of concern only and agree to avoid those ways of acting that sabotage problem solving. Make a commitment to use the rules of fair fighting. * Express what is going on to the best of your ability. Talk feelings. Tell the person how you feel about what is going on. Feeling first, solutions later. Get your point across in a constructive way by owning how you feel about the topic. Use the formula sentence, When you _____, I feel ____ . This simple statement allows you to take responsibility for your own feelings and behavior without blaming the other person.
Learning to use this feeling statement to express your emotions helps you stay in the present and keeps you real. Practice this sentence over and over in times when you are not angry so that it becomes part of your vocabulary. Sharing of feelings increases intimacy. Avoid sentences that begin with You always.... Don't tell the other person what they always do in a blaming way, but focus on what you want to have happen. Keep coming back to the I feel formula that helps you own your own feelings. Talk feelings, talk feelings, talk feelings!
* Allow the other person's feelings to come out. Do not discount the other person's feelings by saying, You should not feel that way. All feelings of anger, disgust, jealously, despair, etc. are human and need to be expressed. Bottled up feelings that are uncomfortable will only serve to make the problem worse as resentment and bitterness increase.
* Show the other person that you really heard what he or she said. Repeat back what the other person just said. Say I heard that you said ______ and what I feel about that is __________. Listen for the feelings of hurt and threat behind their statements. Ask the other person for clarification if you do not understand what they are saying.
* Take turns talking. No monologues allowed. You should be able to make your point in less than a minute or two. Any longer turns into a lecture and You always or you should ____ which are blaming statements. Make sure the other person is listening. Only one person should speak at a time. Healthy conversation is like playing toss and catch. One person speaks and one person listens. Go back and forth with the conversational ball. Take turns talking.
* Stick to the topic. Do not bring in other sore issues. Agree to discuss the pertinent topic only saying, We are discussing______, not ________ Watch for ways you get off the track. Keep coming back to the issue under discussion.
* Stop using techniques that turn up the heat and move you both away from problem solving. Blaming, name calling, threatening, foul language and sarcasm decrease intimacy. Young children believe what they hear their parents saying. They are devastated when they overhear these forms of verbal abuse. These ways of communicating cut down on the possibility of your getting what you want out of the argument.
Take out blame statements and name calling. No problem is ever solved by telling the other person how bad they are. Name calling causes the person to revert back to their behavior and feelings they had as a little child when their parents scolded them. It either renders them helpless or makes them more angry. Name calling, criticism and blaming only perpetuate the problem.
Watch your use of cursing. Cursing adds negative energy to the confrontation placing the other person in danger of feeling shame. Cuss words are like waving a red flag at a bull and increase the heat of the argument. Know that your use of cuss works only shuts the other person down and that they feel the need to defend themselves further.
Do not make empty threats. Do not threaten to leave the relationship or order the other person to get out unless you really mean it. Threatening to break up the relationship only brings up more fear and defensiveness in the other person.
Stop using statements of sarcasm. Sarcasm is a learned habit of moving away from problem solving. Sarcasm is a form of dishonesty as you say one thing but mean another. It is a technique of distraction moving away from the issue at hand.
*Watch for ways you withdraw from the argument. Withdrawal from conflict is one of the most common reasons for causing a relationship to fail. Nothing is ever solved by leaving the issue hanging and both partners are left in feelings of hopelessness due to lack of closure.
The typical pattern is that men withdrawal and women push for more discussion. Another typical pattern is that women become compliant. They do not carry the topic through to closure but give up because feelings of helplessness and what's the use creep in.
* Schedule breathing breaks, or set a timer for every two or three minutes for a breathing break. During this time do not think of the argument and what you want to say. Think of being calm and relaxed. Say to yourself I respect my partner and his or her opinions. I respect myself and my opinions. When you start to become confused or upset, breathe deeply from your diaphragm to bring in more energy and stay centered.
*Watch your need to be right and win. Remember the quote from The Course In Miracles, Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy. Tell the other person what you do want. Remember that you won't always get it but you need to express what you feel is best for you. Keep coming back to what you want but be ready to compromise. Stand firm only on those decisions which compromise your integrity as a person.
*Offer compromises. Stop investing in winning and using power plays and figure out what is really important to you. Tell the other person what you will give up if they give up something of value to them. Keep the negotiation open. Stop every five minutes to sum up what you do agree on and note where the disagreements still lie.
Make notes if necessary. Remind yourself and your partner about the importance of fighting fairly. See how you respond and cope when you feel threatened.
* Observe your patterns of coping with conflict by becoming compliant, using blame or withdrawing. Observe how you go for the jugular vein of the other person in attempts to get your way. Note how you are willing to attack your partner's vulnerable areas and make the conscious choice to stop doing this. Challenge yourself to change your own pattern of dysfunctional communication. When you slip off into changing the topic, name calling, sarcasm, withdrawal or compliance, state it to you partner, Look, I found myself doing _____. Make a commitment to break the dysfunctional pattern and stick to the positive ways of communicating. Keep coming back to the topic. Bring conflict back to the expressing of feelings level and willingness to negotiate.
These are the basic rules for staying clean while you disagree with someone. Now go to your corners and come out fighting! Fair fighting only!
Hold practice sessions with your partner to learn these stick to the topic and fight fair rules. Practice on topics that are not highly emotionally involved for both of you. Focus on improving your communication style instead of trying to win fights. Remember you, like everyone else, have had years of practice in the ways of dysfunctional communication. Keep asking yourself, Do I want to increase intimacy with my partner or do I want to win? What do I really want? Put your energy into problem solving at all times. Put your energy into learning about yourself and your partner.
When the discussion is over, evaluate yourself on how you did. Don't be a critical judge about your performance. Remember that you are learning new ways of acting. Be gentle with yourself. Give yourself credit for every time you remembered to fight fair. Make a contract with yourself on areas that you still need to change. Learning to fight fair is about self responsibility!
If you hear your parents speak through your voice when you are upset, you may be projecting your parents style of fighting on your mate. Projection is a style of slipping back into the past because of unresolved childhood issues. When you project, you confuse unresolved anger felt at your parents with your mate. There are techniques of hypnosis that can help you break projecting your anger at your parent on your current partner. If you have difficulty following these rules and your anger is highly irrational or so highly threatened by conflict that you avoid it at any costs, then you are operating out of the dictates of the unconscious mind. If applying these fair fighting techniques on your own does not work, then you may need some professional help to help you break old behavior patterns that stem from childhood.
Recent research shows that couples break up because they do not know how to resolve their differences through communication. Hostility only breeds more hostility. Venting the negative emotions may clear the air temporarily, but it does not solve the underlying problem and serves to make it worse. Backing away from the conflict and ignoring it only sends each partner into secretiveness, withdraw and isolation. The message becomes clear--the couple that fights together stays together happily only if they use the techniques of conflict resolution.
Becoming an observer of yourself during times of confrontation can give your realms of information about your defensiveness. Defensiveness is only a signal that you need to learn about how you protect yourself when you are threatened. You can learn about yourself and your patterns of coping with threat and ways to stay present and centered during disagreements. Bringing a problem to resolution and closure through continued discussion and compromise is an honorable acts it shows respect for the needs of both partners. Learning to fight fair and keep communication open can be an opportunity for growth for you as an individual and can increase the intimacy between you and your partner.
(This page includes quotes from Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls and quotes from other articles, columns, or web pages (indented) written by Robert Burney and other quotes by me and others from a thread I started last year.)
-- Edited by AGO on Tuesday 18th of May 2010 11:46:40 AM
Aloha Linda...welcome to the board. You post and question reminded me of some wisdom a former sponsor gave me that helped me building boundaries for me...not others. I was addicted to enabling others at all times and trying to fix people, places and things I wasn't even asked to fix. When I did that with my alcoholic wife the alcoholism got worse and we suffered more. I didn't figure that out until I learned about enabling and the consequences of it.
My sponsor taught me "If another person has the time, ability, and facility to take care of their problems and I stepped in to help I was enabling. If they lacked any one of those items ...and... they asked if I would help...that was helping. There are a few more confirming items to make it more real like taking time to think about what I am about to do and do I know or have the experience to help positively otherwise I might direct them to someone else. Thinking honestly about what I can and cannot do and then exercising honesty to arrive at the yesses and noes is key.
This might not be exactly the form of boundary you are talking about but it helped me. (((((hugs))))) Keep coming back there is a ton of wisdom coming up.
-- Edited by Jerry F on Tuesday 18th of May 2010 02:28:16 PM
I had a print out of the rules of fair fighting. They were not nearly as comprehensive as this! I gave him that list about 6 months ago and told him he has to agree to it. No name calling. No Always and Nevers, no absolutes. No pulling up the past and throwing it in each others faces. No yelling. If I walk away and state it is out of hand, do not follow me! Keep it short and sweet.
This was amazing to read. Wow have I botched things up myself! This made sense to me. Thank you for taking the time to post this.
__________________
"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
Excellent post, AGO. I would add a disclaimer though to any newcomers - check your expectations if you are dealing with a non-recovering alcoholic. I fell into the trap of expecting my AH to follow the same guidelines of fighting fair - and finally learned that he simply isn't capable of doing so.
Don't get me wrong - these rules are really really good and have value even it only one person is capable of using them. I can follow these rules AND set some boundaries for myself - and gain some self respect and serenity in the process.
Just my thoughts - take what you like and leave the rest.
Excellent post, AGO. I would add a disclaimer though to any newcomers - check your expectations if you are dealing with a non-recovering alcoholic. I fell into the trap of expecting my AH to follow the same guidelines of fighting fair - and finally learned that he simply isn't capable of doing so.
Don't get me wrong - these rules are really really good and have value even it only one person is capable of using them. I can follow these rules AND set some boundaries for myself - and gain some self respect and serenity in the process.
Just my thoughts - take what you like and leave the rest.
hugs in recovery,
bg
Absolutely
that bolded part kept me confused and angry for years and years and I couldn't understand why boundaries worked with healthy people but not unhealthy people, I tried everything, I brought helpful reading, I tried explaining until I was bluer then your avatar, it took forever to learn that standing in front of someone saying the same thing 300 times wasn't setting a boundary, it was me going insane and soon I yelled, begged, cajoled, threatened, cried, threw tantrums, snooped, sent poison emails, in short I soon acquired all of the character defects of those I was in conflict with.
I had to learn the important part of a boundary wasn't communicating it but enforcing it, boundaries are not in fact behavioral modifications techniques but how I maintain a healthy distance from others, even to those I love, they are allowed closer, but there are still boundaries, to the still suffering alcoholic, who I have to keep at such an emotional distance with boundaries we call it "detaching"
A boundary is a tool to protect me, and fighting fair is as well, if only by following it with those less skilled, at least they have less ammunition with the "no you" part of their communication arsenal, I was so codie I was always willing to believe those attacks, so by removing "probable cause" I am able to detach, think more clearly, and communicate more effectively.
Sometimes putting things into all "I feel" and "my part" when communicating feels like I am eating a poop sandwich especially when I am angry and I feel the other person is wrong and I would love nothing more then to tell them so but the results are a lot better then when I come from a place of having to be right or punishing, and there is no "rolling over", I can still maintain my integrity and speak my truth.
There truly is incredible power from being vulnerable, and the strange thing is I end up less vulnerable then when I try not to be vulnerable, it's hard to explain, but people don't attack someone who is not defended, and since I am doing nothing but stating my truth there is nothing to argue about.
This is me, this is how I feel, if they can't respect that and respond in kind they don't deserve my time and energy, it's gotten that simple.
-- Edited by AGO on Wednesday 19th of May 2010 08:19:36 AM
I can give you my ESH. When I put in place boundaries around practising alcoholics and addicts, to a fault they did not like it one bit. In fact I lost some of them in accusations that I was "selfish" and "mean". Expectations are key. One of the key expectations for me was that I was going to be pretty bad at setting them at first. Over time I evolved some more. I am still really ropey in some areas like work and meeting new people.
From one 'mean' person to another {{{hugs}}} I just recently figured out why my ABF keeps telling me that I have mean to him since we got back together!!!!
I was not the door mat from 12 years ago! I no longer begged, pleaded, or as he puts it...kissed his ass. I held him accountable for his bad behavior and I refused to take part in his crap.
Now he can call it being mean or call me passive aggressive all he wants. I know I am just doing what I NEED to do for myself and my RIGHT to be treated with kindness and respect.
I am human. I falter. I go back to submitting to him just to keep the peace but as I go I am learning I like myself less when I do that.
If something does not feel right to you. If something bothers you. If your little voice tells you "no" those are where the lines need to start. It gets easier to hold the line, when you work it in baby steps. Forgive yourself when you let them be crossed and learn from them.
__________________
"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away"
Hi Jerry, thanks for the anser and I like the way you kept it simple and easy to understand , for me simplicity is the best policy, and i'm so glad i found this form of Alanon meeting where i can get to the board when i can get the chance as a lot of the time i can't seem to get to the meetings face to face. God Bless and thanks Linda
Hello Blender girl thanks for the response about boundries and that take what i like and leave the rest as i'll never be able to begin if its too in depth and too complicated so a shortened version is what i'll take for now haha also i have to remember to look at the expectations i have a lot more too. Thanks have a great week
Hello Maresie thanks for the answer to my post and i am going to take a look at my expectations for sure as two of yous on this board have said that and i always think that i should be able to do everything and cope with everything and of course i can't so i need to look at the subject of expectations closer esp at work as you said thanks Linda