thanks Sox. My ego has stopped me from making the appointment since I always want him to come forwards and say "Let's make the appointment, let's fight"

He's been doing his 12 steps and is overwhelmed, but you're right, I think couples therapy is the last chance for us.

My therapist wants me to stand back from him for a while, sort of like a break to give my head a chance to clean out a little.

But you're right, I at least have to give this a shot

One side has to start being the healthy side.  If that means making the appointment for couples counseling, then you could step up to the plate and do it.  What's the saying about "Be the change you want to see"?  I've found that every time I've managed to make myself do the healthy thing, I don't regret it later.  It doesn't always have the result I'm hoping for, but later I don't have that remorse for not acting healthily and taking care of myself.  Of course, what the healthiest thing is exactly here is something you know best.

Mattie wrote:

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One side has to start being the healthy side.  If that means making the appointment for couples counseling, then you could step up to the plate and do it.  What's the saying about "Be the change you want to see"?  I've found that every time I've managed to make myself do the healthy thing, I don't regret it later.  It doesn't always have the result I'm hoping for, but later I don't have that remorse for not acting healthily and taking care of myself.  Of course, what the healthiest thing is exactly here is something you know best.

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I've not always made the "healthy" choices, but it's more often than not, it's me making the moves towards "betterness" and him just "being"
It builds a ton of resentment in me when it's always me, but you're right, I need to me the change I want to see.
For now, I'm going to have to take a break just to clear my thoughts because the fog of anger is overwhelming me.
thanks so much for the insight

 

wow, I know all about dry drunks, they are some of the most angry people on the planet.  I too had tons of anger and resentments I was hanging onto.  See, in a fight -say the people are so mad and defensive, they just lash out and hurt each other all the time- well, being cruel and watching the other person hurt - all that drama and fighting - all its doing is feeding the disease and distracting you both for YOU and making the healthy changes - plus ur piling up more salt on the bloody and painful wounds already there, so its like ur just getting deeper and deeper in this painful hole.

Therapy for couples, only works if both people are listening.  It is not the place to be abusive.  It is the place to be honest but that means being vulnerable too and that can be hard when both are in so much pain and anger and defending their own positions.

I went to therapy with my exAH with our Priest (bc that is the only person he would go to with me) and he just agreed with the Priest, lied about how he would handle the subsequent fights and then acted in the same old ways behind closed doors with me, all the while putting on this great front for the Priest.

The therapist is right, in that u need to take a little time out - for you, to breathe, decompress, detach emtoinally from b/f's issues, feelings, hurtful words.  You know if u dont belive the hurtful words then they cannot hurt you.  NOt sure how ur fights are breaking down - but if it is name calling - stuff like that, it isnt going anywhere.  IMHO, once name calling starts, its over, its just to hurt and it wont be productive.  You can make a boundary for this, we talk or "argue" a point but if it gets ugly - walk away, take a drive, go to a different room, hit a punching bag - whatver.  That is no longer "communication" it is a war.

The priest also told us, no fight should go longer than twenty minutes and if u cant work it out in that amount of time, u should take a break.

My current bf and I (first 2 years we dated, did not live together) we would use a technique that worked very well for both of us - we both had to agree to it and do it, however and it wasnt easy.  If we had a issue we wnated to discuss - we would ask - can u take a deep, emotionally charged conversation right now.  We got to decide if we could sit down and be objective and if not at that moment, we would pick a time -an hour or 2 from now or the next day.  The word -objective- was what we were commiting to being, which meant, stepping back from our own ego (bc that was where the most pain seemed to come from) and be able to listen objectively without jumping in immediatley and defending - just listening to what was being said, objectively. 
    This worked so well for us, bc we could listen, not react, take what was said and consider it. 

It was also important for me to figure out what my true needs were versus my wants and fantasies about life and the relationship/other person.  Other than very basic physical needs (which are obvious) I needed to be heard and understood emotionally. 
   That was it and I implemented boundaries to keep myself on that healthy path.  You will get to determine what is healthy for you.  In alanon it says, if u dont know what to do, take ur time and it will become clear eventually.  I too did not want to regret anything, so if I did walk away, I knew that I was living and acting through my own integrity and that I had done all I could.

Learning to detach from the hurtful painful things that are said, was a huge help.  I could say, 'that is hurtful or unneccessary or abuse' and detach and walk away.  I could choose to not believe it too, so it had no power to hurt me.

Ok, I guess I can give an example that happened in the last month w my bf (who is codie (like me) not an A).  We are remodelling and it is very stressful, we started in sept and now its may -ugh -9 months! the house IS our child hahah.  He is the bread winner, I stay at home. 
   Ok, so we had tension growing last month, he said he thinks he needs some alone time.  I said, ok great, take some.  He said, ya but ur always here. (lol)  um, ok if I did work a regular job, we would still be home at the same times of day, so it isnt about me not working.  I wont accept that or take it on.  If he needs alone time, that is his pesonal need, he has to see that he gets that.  I cannot police him or ask him if he needs alone time, that is not my job.  Our house (including the basement, work space) has 3,800 sq feet - he can go to another room, watch another tv or go out somewhere.  I am not gooing to be his excuse.  I am not going to be his emotional punching bag.
   If he says, Im going here or there (he already knows if he want to see his friends, I dont get upset about it).

I can only keep tabs on myself and voice what I need.  He gets to do the same.

My feelings are only from my experience. (o: I was just like you. I hung on until it was so clear it was no use and I was not safe.

For me even though he may of got back on program, he is so brain damaged he is not a nice person.

I treasued those last few days then hours with him. )o:

I loved mine all my life 40 years! So did not even want to just throw him away. That is what i mean by we are the only ones who know we have had enough, when our giving just won't give anymore.

We cannot change anyone but ourselves.

I tell ya girl, when my AH woke up from brain surgery, soon as he opened his mouth, I did not know who he was! It was the hardest thing for me to come to face that that is NOT my husband in that body anymore....

Hugs! Glad you are here! debilyn

I've definitely done the couples therapy route when I was in a relationship with an alcoholic.  I know it led to more fighting.  I also know there was in every relationship something that led me there, some connection that I had to dig down and see what it was.  Sometimes I've bene able to do that in a relationship or rather on the periphery of one and sometimes I have had to leave.

I do know that in my fourth step I've had to look at that when the nasty stuff was going on I put my 2 cents in.  When I've stopped doing that with certain people in my life they haven't been able to fight with me.  I'm not fighting so they can hurl what they want at me but I don't respond. 

The hooks are what get me into a fight most of the time.  Someone says something that sets off those childhood wounds and I come up spewing.  Some people know what those childhood wounds are and some don't.  I see it being far more mendacious than what it is.  I have to regroup and look at my options.

For some of us leaving means making a plan be rather than obsessing about the issue and beating the hell out of ourselves.  I went to the no fighting role with the ex A when I began actively working a plan be.  The A didn't change one thing about him, he still jabbed at me when he could, he still manipulated, he still used and acted out.  I stopped over reacting because I was focused on the plan be.  I certainly had plenty of reactions to his antics but I didn't try to change him then.



Maresie.