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Hello on Sunday morning to everyone on the board. I love and hate to come here. Often I scroll though the stories and feel better, feel like I have enough strength for another day or hour.
I just feel so tired, so so so tired of all the work and pretending and trying. I have a 16 mos old son with the A and in the last six months things (since I last moved out & back in) had been getting a little better until the A went on a weekend binge two months ago and kicked us out of the house.
After a few weeks he repented and wanted us to work things out so I tried, but I would not move back in. Counseling, time apart, etc. But things were still shaky as the A tried to start finally building a solid life, looking for a job, trying to be a man, being really good to me and honest about his life.
Then his folks show up for a visit and he is back to drinking and they give him thousands of dollars in toys: tools, boats, etc. and are going to be setting him up in his own business (again) and just when he was about to do it, to jump his hurdle, they remove it and he learns nothing.
Still, I went to dinner with them each night and tried to be as polite as possible, after each encounter having a near-nervous breakdown with my job stress and life stress (thousands of dollars in medical debt for my son's birth, etc.), no money, living in my office with my son, trying to stay strong and positive.
He gets off without any lesson, back to drinking and of course back to treating me like a piece of garbage. I spent the night with him the night before his parent's left so I could have breakfast with them and our son and in the morning while they were upstairs showering I asked him about the child care schedule for the next few days.
He dismissed me, said it did not matter, we'd figure out later. We had the schedule on the fridge at his house for weeks where it was updated and changed without any drama. But he threw it away when his folks came and then there was no schedule. As primary caregiver, I just wanted to get an idea of what was going on for the next few days.
He was angry, and had been getting angrier each day since the drinking and enabling came to town. No longer had he been thinking about me or us at all; it was all centered now on the A.
I tried to argue my point (could I get an idea of my day today, etc.) when he said let's just do this after they leave. Okay, I said, I put the schedule away and moved on, but he kept bringing things up: filing the child support (was I still doing it?), the payment on the medical bills he had missed, etc.
His mom and dad came downstairs and I tried to just plow on and be cool, but he was fuming and then let me have it when they left, about how I had ruined his morning with them and that I was crazy and irrational and why could I not just wait to make the schedule and what was my problem and I was always trying to make problems and I was unstable, etc. I sobbed, sobbed, said how sorry I was, tried to explain why I wanted an idea of a schedule since he had thrown it away (I know so his parents would not know the reality of the amount of child care he provides), but he said I still presented to him no valid reason for asking for the schedule and so I must have done it to make problems.
I leave, because he has to go pick out his new $5,000 boat. I go home to my office and sob (even with my son), try to clean up a bit, stumbling over piles and piles of bills, some even for him, as I am still paying for internet and his online services, realizing my food stamp card is nearly empty because I had given him $100 for food when we were getting along.
I felt so used, how could his folks buy into his perspective so fully? He told me he asked them for money to give to me but they said my own family needs to help me, and they had already given me money for my business in October (which they had-but it only offset debt accrued from supporting our whole family out of the biz account)...
So to see them come in town and know my whole livelihood is in jeopardy for medical debt, and that their son has not worked or tried to find work for a year, and has had a priority of recreation and hanging out rather than being a man and supporting his family...in front of me they buy him all these new power tools and a offer to set him up fishing for a living because he says it will make him happy, and he gets the option of more relaxation and hanging out while I work and support our son and get nothing.
He skirts the issue of me filing child support by saying it would be useless and also it would hurt him and why would I want to be so vindictive. I am so crazy I believe him and am frozen as to what to do.
Just four days ago he was trying to convince me to move back in. It was so painful going over to his house, watching his mama clean up after him or make him clean, the house which was still filled with my things, the house which has been our home. They seem so smug that finally he will be okay, now that I am gone, and now, see, everything is great for their family again and they are in charge and now that crazy unstable person is gone we can enjoy the three days in six months we will witness our son's life the way we want to.
For three days he could have cared less about what I was doing or how. He became again so self-obsessed, forgetting my reality (which had been his reality, too). When he would ask me to dinner or talk to me it was so false, all previous intimacy or friendship erased and instead this "pretend boyfriend" showed up who was super-cool and what was *my problem?
Sure, he's quit drinking for a few months, but he's back to it again. And the pain of how he treats me and thinks of me as such a terrible, trouble-causing, problem-maker again is so hurtful. All it takes is one sip of wine that first night and our world unravels even more.
Is leaving the only way? Is breaking up with him for good and all the only way I can get my sanity back? Why do I let him back in over and over? Why? I feel so powerless over every single thing in my life. He has our son right now, he picked him up after a row where he is still mad that I asked about the schedule yesterday. I cried and left the room.
I'm sorry this is so long and winding and a vent and a sad story. I want to be stronger than this, but the pain is so overwhelming sometimes. I have been working so hard with integrity and he has been slacking off and loafing and in the end he gets the reward and I get the short end of the stick.
I want to be bigger than all of this! I want to be stronger and more aware of what I am doing so he is not able to manipulate "how things happened." In this morning's argument he came to the pick-up distant and let me know he was still upset I had brought up the schedule when his parents were still there, and he added something ne...that I never siad, "Okay," and put the schedule away when he said he did not want to discuss it. He said this never happened. But I know it happened! I feel so insane.
You are so right that things are very, very wrong.
Can you get to daily meetings? Some of them have childcare. Getting people to phone and a sponsor would be a great support for you. And remember the meetings online here. You need and deserve a lot of support, because this is challenging.
It is no wonder that your A's family have become enveloped in the insanity too -- in fact they probably brought him up in insanity, so it's no surprise they're still going. Detaching is about them too. If they did X, Y and Z better he might decide to get better -- maybe -- but it's still totally up to him. It's frustrating to see them throw money around. More of their insanity.
But please don't buy into any of them saying that child support isn't right. He fathered a child; he needs to be responsible, both morally and legally. If it is out of work, the state will set the amount low. But not nothing. Another way A's try to get us to believe their version of reality -- in which they are entitled to everything and should have no responsibilities or consequences -- is by implying that asking them to meet their responsibilities is an outrage. It sounds as if he's unemployed at least partly because his attention has been on alcohol. Letting him off payments because he prefers to drink could be considered enabling. So of course he would pressure you not to do it; but that might help you see that it's not selfish of you to do it, on the contrary. It even helps him when you insist on payments, because it enforces consequeces.
I think Mattie's answer pretty much said it all. I strongly have to agree that your H should be paying child support. Asking for that is not in anyway vindictive it is your childs birthright. It is for your child. As a father he should be supporting his child no 2 ways about it. Of course the A's are master manipulators and can turn things around on us in a heartbeat and we start to believe and buy into thier insanity. Thats where we lose ourselves. I think the fact that you posted this tells me you know what it is what you need to do. Blessings to you and baby
Lone, when my kids were little, my husband and father to my kids died.Drunk, pedestrian accident. kids 3 adn 4 year old.
I had to move in with my now AH, my sons bio father. When I realized what a mess he was, and yes he told me I was crazy too, he left. Then wanted back of course. nope. I moved into town and he came over one time, caused a rucus, I got an RA on him.
For me it was my momma bear no one makes my or my kids life unhappy! He was awful in MY house, broke things! We were so scared, we, in our jammies, grabbed up our Great dane and two cats and ran next door! We had never see that before! My family was very mellow and loving.
Maybe it would help you to think of the kiddo's? YOU yourself are worth way more than how he is treating you. How dare he!
hey my AH told everyone his long time live in girlfriend was nuts too! AND his brother said his girlfriend was crazy too!
It is another thing the A's do to try to make themselves look better. sicko's.
His parents are sicker than him. Allow their grandchild to go with out while he gets a boat?????
BUT see he could say I would rather you guys get a bunch of stuff for my child and pay on the hospital bills.
Hey lady you bet I would and did do child support! Only got it when he was on unemployment.
Yes it will do good. Maybe someday he will get a job. Legally they have to garnish. My daughter did it too.
If we don't we are enabling!! My hair stands up on end, kids need our protection, I would ignore the disease talk and go for it!
If it was and it was, just me, I gave it lots of chances. But not with my kids no way.
I am mellow, but push me so far, and I will let you have it, no matter who you are. NO one ever messed with my kids. Especially my son and he was a handful! (o: The police knew me, some were old friends. They always said watch out for that McPhate Mom! (o: Police do harrass young boys. They knew i knew law and gave up arguing with me.
Anyway you are fine! Good for you for getting out of there. A's just want us back to use us. See how quick you are thrown away when mommy and daddy are there? I hate this disease.
Yes, Lonewolfmama, my opinion is that sometimes, leaving the A is the only right path to preserving our own sanity. You and your dear child deserve much better, and continuing to put up with his insanity is doing nothing positive for any of the three of you.
The child support thing is chipped in stone. He must support this child he helped to make. He must not be allowed to skip out on that. People go to jail for non payment of child support; an action I don't quite understand as they will not earn any money sitting in a cell...but that's beside the point. He needs a job so that he can contribute...now. If his Mom and Dad want to pay for that, so be it. As innocent little child has a right to what is his.
Best wishes,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
With or with out him learn to depend on yourself , arrange day care look after your own job and debts , when u stop obsessing about him and what the future holds anything is possible . It is obvious right now u cannot count on him for financial or emotional support so learn to be your own best friend , if your not already find Al-Anon meetings for yourself u need support and encouragment from people who understand exactly what your going thru . This truly is a disease and it only gets worse never better - until he says what he s doing is causing a problem It Isn't - its causing you a problem and your the only one that can stop allowing his choices to run your life , our insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting this time it will be different . we believe the lies , we lie for them , we cover up thier mistakes , we make excuses for th ier behavior and allow others to blame us for thier actions . until we stop doing these things nothing will change . Its not uncommon for the alcoholic to forget conversations they have had AA calles them blackouts = which makes me wonder if he is trustworthy enough to look after a baby . ??? babies depend on us to keep them safe please rethink your day care plans = just my opinion .
OH I SO COULD HAVE written your post a few years ago now... I totally hear you about the enabling parents and the toys, etc. wow, I can relate.
Here is the bottom line tho- there are alcoholics ALL AROUND US 24/7. WE ARE SURROUNDED.
And you know what? I like some of them. In fact I love some of them. They are my friends and my family and I get to "do" that because of al-anon. Al-anon gives me tools so I can have relationships with them. Granted I do not have an alcoholic (and mentally ill) husband anymore but I have got lots of alcoholics in my life and to be honest, I would not trade them for the world.
It is ME that needs help and it is ME that has this disease. And so it goes- I keep coming back to these rooms and keep attending meetings and I keep looking at all that literature till its coming out of my ears.
You can write on and on and on about what they do and don't do, lord knows I had to do all that for a long long time. keep coming back and try to get to some face to face meetings. hugs, J.
I think "first things first". I hope you would remove yourself from the circus, If even for awhile, try to go to an Alanon meeting. You will feel the peace and serenity.
One thing we learn here is that you cannot make an A do what he will not do, that includes supporting his children. Yes, it would be great if he did. Again, lets deal with reality. They do not go after all the men who do not pay child support, not if your living together and they only go after the ones that are on welfare for sure.
In order to change the dynamic of our environment, we have to change our reactions to it. We have to react differently then before. In order to make a change, we have to be the change. We have to focus on ourself and stay in our own lane. The best thing you could do for yourself is the Alanon program. It teaches you all about dealing with living with an addict. Its the most difficult path to choose, yet we do learn about expanding and balancing our lives.
Please come back or go to a meeting. I am grateful that I did and for the tools of this program. Otherwise it will continue to spiral down and out of control. Wishing you strength, hope and courage. Bettina
I played on the merry-go-round for about 30 years. Alcoholism did not rear its ugly head until about the 6th years of marraige. I did everything under the sun to try to get my AH to stop drinking. There is nothing in any book on alcoholism that I didn't try. I'm a slow learner. I finally get the three C's.
Do I still love him? You bet! Will I live with him? Hell no! Do I try to get him to change? Nope.
My divorce is almost final. I'm 55 years old - whoops - young I have a life to live. I'm moving on, even though it hurts in some regards.
Keep searching for "your" answers. Everyone's path is unique.
-- Edited by GailMichelle on Sunday 18th of April 2010 04:56:53 PM
-- Edited by GailMichelle on Sunday 18th of April 2010 05:03:15 PM
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
I really needed to see this email today. I attend Al-Anon (only 2 months in) and the ladies there remain with their husbands and have done so for over 20 years (drinking and sober). I have been working towards leaving mine. I think I finally got my message across to him this weekend. I feel I can't really speak up 100% at Al-Anon b/c of what my husband does to me. I know my story is probably the same as many others, BUT I CAN NOT live with his habit. When he drinks, he go to the local strip club and blows about $1000 on lap dances and God knows what else. All I ever seem to read/hear is that it's possible to find serenity even when they are drinking, but I can't possibly go through the crap he hands out. I am so hurt by his visits to the strip club and I suspect he has a sex addiction b/c in the past he has corresponded online with someone he met on a singles site, re-established contact with an old girlfriend (who still worships him), goes to the strip club on a regualr basis, seems a little too interested in porn and the latest Tiger woods saga, etc. No matter how much I love him, I can't live with the fact he spends his time at strip clubs, spends our money (and then usually berates me..."We haven't had sex for two days so..."). I am probably oversensitive to others' well-intentioned advice...but I absolutely refuse to be treated like that-disease or no disease. It is a relief to know it's okay to leave...even if he isn't beating me...
To sum it all up, I think the bottom line is that some people are able to achieve serenity while staying with their A's, and some people have to leave them to achieve serenity. Everybody's situation is different, everybody's A is different. There's no one way.
But the thing is that we can't make them stop. If we're going to achieve serenity while staying with them, it's an inside job. We have to do it ourselves, for ourselves.
It also doesn't mean that we have to put up with abuse and insanity. If there's too much to detach from, then separating may be the only sane option.
Having kids at home changes the picture some, the way I see it. We may learn how to detach, and we have more freedom in our decisions than kids do. So we may be able to learn how to relate healthily than kids can. They're still growing up and needing to depend on their caretakers; it's awful hard for a kid to detach. And growing up with an alcoholic may distort their view of the world, so they think alcoholism is normal (and so they may get in relationships with A's when they grow up). Or they may get hooked into a pattern where they want to change A's, and be attracted to A's with a subconscious agenda of hoping to change them. I sure wouldn't wish that on a child. So part of your decision will be about your own serenity, and part about protecting your kids.
I also just want to add that the child support laws seem to be different in every state. I know someone in one state who is longterm unemployed (in fact, an addict), and was ordered to pay the minimum child support payment ($150 a month) anyway, or go to jail. He actually was on the verge of jail before a family member stepped in and took over the payments. As someone above said, I don't know what use jail is -- except that it is another consequence for continuing his addiction. And the threat meant that someone did pay, which meant that that child did have some much-deserved extra support.
-- Edited by Mattie on Sunday 18th of April 2010 06:09:44 PM
Lonewolf I know exactly where you are coming from. we all have our limits and have to reach our own rock bottoms. When that happens is when real change happens.
I stayed with my AH for years. I watched the chaos and joined in with the insanity. I threatened to leave, I threatened to divorce, I kicked him out, I gave ultimatums. I begged him to stay, I took jobs to cover his debt problems, I let my kids suffer. I tried every trick in the book to try and manipulate him into becoming the sober, responsible husband he was supposed to be. My family didn't know, his family didn't see anything wrong.
I know now that I cannot stay in an active situation. I completely lost me as a person. I don't agree with divorce though and now have a chronic illness which stops me being able to support myself and my kids financially.
It is terrifying. I chose to try and have no contact with my husband for one year. That was my intention. He wouldn't stay away....he got angry, he pleaded with me, he sulked, he drank less, he drank more but it allowed me to learn how to detach First with anger, then with indifference and eventually with love. Our seperation lasted 2 years. We had the decree nici I had no intention of going back into the marriage and told friends he would have to have a brain transplant before I would even consider the possibility.
Then the b*gg*r found sobriety and changed so drastically I was in no doubt that it was safe to take him back. There were no if's or but's. He even looked different.
The choices I made were right for me and didn't involve what others said or thought. It was ok to change my mind
We only have today, one day at a time. I ask myself....what do I want, for me, today. Can I live with how things are today....and then say the Serenity prayer... 4 years ago the answer was divorce... and that was ok Today its marriage...and thats ok too
What is important is MY serenity and the wellbeing of my kids. I have a responsibility to myself and my kids only. My own sanity is of major importance to me I protect it fiercely. By looking clearly at my choices. When I am focused on other people it all goes wrong again and my sponsor sends me back to step one I really am powerless over people places and things. My life is unmanageable when I try to focus on them
The most loving thing I can do for my family today is to keep my focus on ME and my own needs and to stay out of the head of my AH Its ok to trust that what I think is right is the right thing for me. Your Higher Power is looking after you Its ok to trust that your AH has his Higher Power looking after him too. My AH is not my responsibility. Hes an adult.
Alcoholism is a progressive illness but it is his illness My illness is caring for others at the expense of my own needs Thats why I need alanon Keep coming back
Aloha LWM...I was brain dead when I got into recovery. I didn't know and didn't know I didn't know what was going on so did I have any solutions at all. No I was a part of the problem and a the whole part of my own problem. So I got into Al-Anon (took two trips) and on the second trip is started to sit down and force myself to listen with "an open mind". When I tried to listen thru my own limited recourses I screwed up the lessons and had to pull back into the group. I thought all reactions (not responses) were black or white...either/or...up or down, left or right and they weren't. Were there different perspectives of leaving my alcoholic? You bet and one of them that took a while to learn but still works for me today is/was detachment. I learned to detach from her mind, body, spirit and emotions until I could arrived at a clear picture of the situation and could move forward. Did I stay with her...no because I married her for the wrong reasons in the first place with the wrong intentions. There was fear and dishonesty on my side of the decision to do that. Making it right was getting out of her way, allowing her the dignity of her own responsibilities and turning her over to a power greater than myself and the disease. Divorce was not a reaction it was a response to working the program as suggested and being deeply honest with myself, her and others.
When I was in pain all of my decisions came from reaction. I didn't take the time to ponder the problem and my part in it. I didn't take the time to think about what was really going on or to do that with experience program members and a sponsor. I did it with the person with the problem...me.
The are online meetings here at MIP twice a day. Al-Anon has tons of useful literature...mostly free some at cost. The fellowship is very experienced and willing to support and love when you reach out (thank God!!). I have the grace to know I am human and though I know I need I also know my need will never be perfectly fulfilled cause we are only human. What I have today is a recovery that is beyond my wildest dreams and I got that inspite of being married to the alcoholic in my life and participating in the insanity.
Many of us can personally understand your heart ache, confusion and fatigue.
I came here about 6/7 years ago desperate, angry, totally irate, confused, isolated and fearful. I had no idea how to make a decision.
Detaching from the chaos of an active alcoholic is really hard work, uphill mainly for a long long time.
There are tools that can help you. First if you really want to explore the issue of leaving him stop talking to him about it and start making a plan be. That would encompass all you would need to do to get out. I should say now that I'm about 4 years out from a relationship and my financial issues are still dire, my emotional issues are just beginning to heal and I would not be able to function at all without this board.
Detaching is tremendously hard work, believe me I have been there in the thick of the ex A's family, friends, chaos and more chaos. I let it run me totally into the ground, I had no energy to do anything at all. Detaching and focusing on me was the only way to get a sense of direction.
I do know that I really never wanted to join al anon. I came here out of desperation, I came here because I had no where else to turn. I have learned so much, been given such support, care, understanding, and love that I never dreamed possible.
I beat myself to a pulp about my inaction, my floundering when I lived with the ex A. I no longer do that. I have a sense of being "beloved" these days which I have never had before. Al anon and working the steps, giving up to the program really helped me.
I hope you will explore tools, strategies, and self care for a while. Take a break from hitting yourself over the head. I am 4 years out and still struggling tremendously. I will probably struggle for a while longer, the financial ramifications are enormous.
Thank you all for all your inspiring feedback. I have done an al-anon meeting once in my town and after writing the above yesterday I went outside to sob and sneak a smoke and who should walk up to me but the most serene member of the al-anon meeting I had attended.
She hugged me so tight with an acceptance so genuine I let myself feel all the pain, and tried to joke that I did not really smoke, and that I would be okay. She was headed to church and invited me to come. I declined, but she called me later in the day. I will get to the next meeting and I know it will help. I will try my best to focus on me and my child for the next few days when the A's parents return, and I will put me and my son's welfare first.
The financial ramifications *are enormous, but I also realize they will only grow as my son gets older, or at least that's what everyone says. I know the sooner the better I hold the A accountable for parenthood. There is no other option.
The A told me his father wants to meet with me when his parents come back through town tomorrow, and I don't know about what. All I know is that I want to be strong for my family. My son is not a plaything; he is also a responsibility for his parents. We must both work towards him having a good future or I *will growl the mama bear growl and make sure my son at least has a chance.
Sometimes the scariest part is needing time for me when my son and I are alone and he is being cranky or needy. I try to redirect my energy but lately it is very difficult and sometimes I just end up sobbing and sobbing in front of him. All the years now of covering, making excuses, forgiving the unforgivable, all the pain...it just crashes over me and I have to realize my blessings and start counting them each one by one no matter how small (starting with the biggest, my son). I want to transcend this experience in my life and I garner such hope from this board and those who have suffered in the same way, however slight it may seem to us in the scope of all the world's ills.
Love is the real high, happiness the real drug, success and wisdom such incredible feelings. The hate, the self-hate, the madness I have lived in for so long makes it easy to forget the truth. Coming to this board and interacting with the souls here reminds all of us that we are here together to make peace, and live lives intended for magic and light regardless of our trauma.
Thank you for sharing here, and making me feel like a little less of a mad wench! I know the journey I must embark on now is one to "know thyself." I can only work the program...and try...
That is so great that you met the member just when you need to, it would great if you could get to some meetings and stop being so isolated, I had to learn that NO was a word in my vocabulary, if it does not suit you to meet up with family members at the moment, postpone it, you have choices and do not need to be manipulated at the moment. Unfortunately all the enabling and toys will come back to haunt them, You take care and I'm glad you posted, I went through a few years like you are going through and it was insane, it contributed to my own denial of alcohol so sending your prayers your way, and keep posting.
